Macragge's Honour less useful since latest patch?

[Tacitus]

Does anyone else feel that Macragge's Honour seems much less effective since the latest patch, with all the changes to Space Marines also applying to Papa Smurf's flagship?

If I recall correctly, before the patch, the ship cost a few hundred more points than a standard Battle Barge, but now, at over 1100 points, you can't take many supporting ships with her. Moreover, with the changes to boarding, and the general strengthening of defensive turrets (which I do like in general), suddenly that Glorianna-class monster doesn't seem as intimidating. It's just as vulnerable to crits and boarding as any other ship, and it's so expensive that you can't take much of an escorting fleet with it, which is necessary given how slow it is.

It also doesn't help that Guilliman doesn't spawn with a useful skill for battleship admirals like Micro-warp jump, although that may admittedly make the ship a bit overpowered.

Of course, this is just my opinion, but I'm eager to hear what you all think.

On an unrelated note, does anyone know the inspiration for the Ultramarines' primarch's name? The names (and nicknames) of almost all the other primarchs have clear inspiration from history, mythology, or simply the respective temperaments of their legions, but what's the origin of the name "Roboute Guilliman?"

[Fosil]

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/11/40k-whats-in-a-name-primarch-edition.html

[Tacitus]

^Very informative! The one about Guilliman was oddly obscure for the primarch of what is probably the most popular legion/chapter both in-universe and among players of the tabletop. I'd imagine that when most people think of an Astartes, they envision an Ultramarine, just as a Cadian Shock trooper is the archetypal Imperial Guardsman.

[Vollhov]

I completely agree.
With the requirements of 1100 points, he became useless without good support.

[jerryfanfan]

Originally posted by Tacitus:

It also doesn't help that Guilliman doesn't spawn with a useful skill for battleship admirals like Micro-warp jump, although that may admittedly make the ship a bit overpowered.

You can try to transfer Roboute to a light cruiser, get him killed, and put another officer on Macragge's Honor who has more useful special abilities.

[Tacitus]

^That is an interesting (if heretical :D) suggestion, but the only issue is that since Macragge's Honour takes up 1100 points, how exactly will I build another light cruiser for the fleet? When I unlocked the ship, it only came with two escorts, which were eventually destroyed in battle. I can't build any others without exceeding the point limit, unless I go through the steps of editing the point costs for the ships in game.

If I am going to do that, I might as well hex edit the admiral skills as well (not sure it applies to admirals already spawned in game). Overall, it's a shame, considering how what should be the centerpiece of the Imperial fleet feels more like a museum piece than an actual warship.

[C0mmies can cry]

Another stupid move from a LAZY developer.

Gee... Let's kill whatever fun this game has left.

[Kaiafas Kain]

I didn't have time to play for the Honor of Macragge before patch. Now he's disappointed me. Too high price. And he shows up at the end of the campaign. The price should be reduced by 200-300 points. He just to hit with crit chaos fleet 3000 points in the eyes of terror.

[Tacitus]

Yeh, if they are going to make it 1100 points, then make it worthy of being considered a fleet-in-being. That ship should have as much firepower and tankiness as a 1100-point fleet, but it clearly does not. Bringing 4 Tyrant cruisers, or Astartes strike cruisers or even two battle barges offers far more versatility, total hull and shield points, and many more guns on target than the Macragge's Honour.

They might as well bump her hull points up to the level of the Ancient One if we are being forced to use Macragge's Honour on its own. It really does feel like a slap in the face to have the ship almost unusable in most fleet configurations.

[Amoc]

Originally posted by Communists R Trash!:

Another stupid move from a LAZY developer.

Playtesting?

HERESY!

[Hyndis]

Large ships in general just feel weak and squishy for their cost. Battleships seem to me to be less effective than cruisers on a per cost basis.

In the case of the big smurf, this one ship is so massively expensive you can hardly field any other ships along with it, and its so slow it takes ages getting anywhere. So okay, make it slow, but give it so much firepower and so much tankiness that it can take on an entire fleet by itself. To do this it would also probably need to be crit immune. Its far too easy to crit to death a single large ship at range. Big ships suffer from all of your eggs in one basket syndrome. One permanent crit to engines or generators and its all over for the big ship.

[FroGG2]

Originally posted by Amoc:

Originally posted by Communists R Trash!:

Another stupid move from a LAZY developer.

Playtesting?

HERESY!

Playtesting before a game comes out?

HERESY!

[C0mmies can cry]

Originally posted by Amoc:

Originally posted by Communists R Trash!:

Another stupid move from a LAZY developer.

Playtesting?

HERESY!

Playtesting to remove FUN from a SINGLEPLAYER.

I call that Lazy.

and

Stupid.

Lazy Tindalos can do playtesting INTERNALLY. But the morons over there thinks its a better idea to make gamers eat their filth of NO-FUN.

[Amoc]

Fun? HERESY!

Know your duty!

You will play this game, with all of it's ridiculous design problems, lack of testing, lazy balancing and bush-league optimization, and you will do it with a smile on your face, because you do it in service of Focus Interactive's bottom line!

Death to the critic, the naive and those who learned their lesson from BFGA 1!

This is a Tindalos game, and there is only garbage.

[Rystiya]

Originally posted by Hyndis:

Large ships in general just feel weak and squishy for their cost. Battleships seem to me to be less effective than cruisers on a per cost basis.

In the case of the big smurf, this one ship is so massively expensive you can hardly field any other ships along with it, and its so slow it takes ages getting anywhere. So okay, make it slow, but give it so much firepower and so much tankiness that it can take on an entire fleet by itself. To do this it would also probably need to be crit immune. Its far too easy to crit to death a single large ship at range. Big ships suffer from all of your eggs in one basket syndrome. One permanent crit to engines or generators and its all over for the big ship.

I think large ships are less likely to lose their engine/generator/bridge now. However their low speed, limited vision and not-that-good tankiness and firepower do pose a problem.

[Tacitus]

^That is true; larger ships do, in theory, have more resistance to crits. However, this doesn't mean much when your ship is being hit several times a second and it lacks the mobility to move out of the line of fire. Even with the patch changes, it doesn't feel substantially more difficult to score crits on larger ships, or for your own capital ships to suffer critical damage, at least in the campaign.

I think the best thing they can do with Macragge's Honour is make it immune to crits, much like the Ork's Rok-class vessels. At 1100 points, since you can't bring much of a support fleet, and since the ship is so slow and unmanoeuvrable, it can still get focused-fired by the enemy if you push it too far forward.