Good way to make more powerful jet engines?

[fsendventd]

As far as I can tell, the only way to get more power out of a turbine-powered vehicle is to put more engines in it. Does stuff like adding more compressors/combustion chambers/turbines actually increase power?

[fsendventd]

Originally posted by kutyax:

Just add more exhausts, nothing else.

That's more thrust, not more power. Thrust is irrelevant when you're trying to build a turboshaft.

[Drepface]

not worried about space: 4 intakes, 2 compressors, 1 combustion, and 3 turbines, or 2 intakes, 2 compressors, 1 combustion, and 2 turbines

worried about space: 1 intake, 1 compressor, 1 combustion, 1 turbine, or the same but 2 intakes.

switching to the 2-2-1-2 layout from the 1-1-1-1 layout boosted my small speedboat from 42-43 m/s to 90-100 m/s because I could use better ratios

[fsendventd]

Originally posted by Drepface:

not worried about space: 4 intakes, 2 compressors, 1 combustion, and 3 turbines, or 2 intakes, 2 compressors, 1 combustion, and 2 turbines

worried about space: 1 intake, 1 compressor, 1 combustion, 1 turbine, or the same but 2 intakes.

switching to the 2-2-1-2 layout from the 1-1-1-1 layout boosted my small speedboat from 42-43 m/s to 90-100 m/s because I could use better ratios

I didn't know adding intakes helped anything. Would that do anything if I duct the intake for a couple meters back to the rest of the engine so that the intake doesn't get submerged?

[Ra-Ra-Rasputin]

You can build an afterburner jet. Those provide not only higher power for the fuel cost, but they're also more responsive.

Let me make one for you real quick, you can compare how it performs to a normal one.

[Ra-Ra-Rasputin]

It may be slightly too powerful for just one prop, given at what it does if you floor the throttle in this case, even at a low 6 RPS pre-burning chamber.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2100344635

Edit: Oh no i made it better.

Edit 2:

Also just to put it out there, adding more intakes in most cases doesn't really make all that much a difference. It may help in getting the initial boost to start up the jet engine, but the same can be done much better with an electronically assisted start.

Compressors can make the thing very fuel hungry, because they essentially work like a supercharger for the engine, and the compressor in most setups shouldn't be ran in perpetuity anyway.

The reason Drepface had the boost because his jet setup was already capable of housing 2 turbines as is. You can determine this by looking at how much pressure is in the system. The system above can reach absolutely obscene pressures of above 60,000 when throttled up to full.

[neppy]

For Jet turbine electric system, stack up lots of JET TURBINE MEDIUM to make more power and also fuel efficient

[fsendventd]

Originally posted by Ra-Ra-Rasputin:

It may be slightly too powerful for just one prop, given at what it does if you floor the throttle in this case, even at a low 6 RPS pre-burning chamber.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2100344635

Edit: Oh no i made it better.

Edit 2:

Also just to put it out there, adding more intakes in most cases doesn't really make all that much a difference. It may help in getting the initial boost to start up the jet engine, but the same can be done much better with an electronically assisted start.

Compressors can make the thing very fuel hungry, because they essentially work like a supercharger for the engine, and the compressor in most setups shouldn't be ran in perpetuity anyway.

The reason Drepface had the boost because his jet setup was already capable of housing 2 turbines as is. You can determine this by looking at how much pressure is in the system. The system above can reach absolutely obscene pressures of above 60,000 when throttled up to full.

See, literally none of that makes sense to me as an aviation nut. Putting more combustors and turbines after the first set should just torch the engine, or not work at all (you're just putting jet exhaust into the combustor instead of actual burnable air), instead of boosting power. Adding just more turbines, on the other hand, should help, as you have more turbine stages to extract energy from the exhaust.
Also, about the compressors, they still confuse me. The compressor in an actual jet engine is the most important part, and the biggest jets can have 13-stage compressors to pump as much air into the combustor as possible. Turboprops are more reasonable at 4 or 5, but it's still a lot, and they have large turbines on the gearbox to extract power for a prop. But in the game, the compressor doesn't work nearly the same. The engine almost seems to be able to run without one as long as you start it using a motor on the turbine, but at the same time it doesn't gain RPS and eventually flames out (or at least that's what it does in my experience). But when you do add a compressor, it seems like you need to enable it for anything at all to happen. None of it makes any sense, and I still can't get it to work.

[Ra-Ra-Rasputin]

What you're looking at is essentially an afterburning jet engine, the only difference is the lack of the exhaust, which i could've added with a spoiler to stop it from actually providing thrust.

The first combustion chamber is being ran at a low setting to provide constant engagement to the engine, and prevent it from stalling. The turbine after it is essentially idle and the components after it provide pass-through with the second combustion changer being given throttle.

When you apply throttle to the combustion chamber at the back, the first turbine essentially becomes a jet-driven compressor. It will drive a massive pressure to the rear combustion chamber and turbine.

I don't know what the (huge) compressor's real world equivalent is, but you could probably fit 5 stages in there if you look at the size of the thing. Additional compressors aren't necessarily a bad thing, but they are huge.

With the setup you're looking at, that thing could run 4-6 props, providing you use 1:2 gearing or lower on them.


The usual thing though, is that don't compare real life to games that don't try to title themselves as simulators. We're working with a very different set of physics.

[fsendventd]

Originally posted by Ra-Ra-Rasputin:

What you're looking at is essentially an afterburning jet engine, the only difference is the lack of the exhaust, which i could've added with a spoiler to stop it from actually providing thrust.

The first combustion chamber is being ran at a low setting to provide constant engagement to the engine, and prevent it from stalling. The turbine after it is essentially idle and the components after it provide pass-through with the second combustion changer being given throttle.

When you apply throttle to the combustion chamber at the back, the first turbine essentially becomes a jet-driven compressor. It will drive a massive pressure to the rear combustion chamber and turbine.

I don't know what the (huge) compressor's real world equivalent is, but you could probably fit 5 stages in there if you look at the size of the thing. Additional compressors aren't necessarily a bad thing, but they are huge.

With the setup you're looking at, that thing could run 4-6 props, providing you use 1:2 gearing or lower on them.


The usual thing though, is that don't compare real life to games that don't try to title themselves as simulators. We're working with a very different set of physics.

Okay, number one, afterburning jet engines are not what you're thinking of. An afterburning jet engine injects raw fuel into the jet exhaust stream after it's passed through the turbine, and then that contributes to the mass being ejected from the jetpipe. It doesn't mean that you have more combustion chambers and turbines after the first ones. The afterburning exhaust in the game simulates this well. You just feed fuel into it, and when you enable the afterburner then it dumps fuel into the jetpipe in pretty much the same way actual jets do it. Incredibly inefficient since you're burning fuel without compressed air to feed it, but it adds tons of thrust.

The closest equivalent that I can find to your setup is the "free-power" turbine design of turboprops. They have a regular jet engine core, but then a secondary turbine behind the first one that drives the prop. The key difference there is that there's no additional combustion happening between the turbines, unlike your design. And the rear turbine shouldn't be gaining any pressure because it has more turbines in front of it. It should actually be losing pressure, since the whole idea of a turbine is to convert the heat energy of the gas into mechanical energy by allowing the jet exhaust to expand and spin the turbine. Expanded exhaust is at a lower pressure. The only thing that should really add more pressure is adding more compressors.

I suppose I should have mentioned this earlier, but I'm not actually trying to drive propellers. I'm trying to drive dual water jets in a boat, as I generally find water jets to be much more efficient than propellers.

Also, underrated opinion, the combustion chamber should be smaller (maybe only the length of a straight duct), as combustors in jets really aren't very big. Compressors as well, since now that I look at it the one we have could easily be 6 or 7 stages, or maybe just adding a smaller option or separating it into a 1-unit-long piece that represents 1 stage and can be stacked to add more stages (and maybe the same for the turbines as well). It's really hard to make single-engine turboprops that can actually fit a jet in the nose right now.

[Ra-Ra-Rasputin]

When i say "basically an afterburning jet engine" i mean roughly in the sense of how it works, instead of thrust i'm providing more air pressure than any modern material can handle. The game comes with an actual afterburner exhaust along with the wonderful ripping noise that they make.

Basically, you have to imagine that the first turbine is just a combustion-driven compressor, instead of a turbine. It looks like a turbine, it smells like a turbine, it sounds like a turbine, and that means it's just a very fancy compressor The reason this is because the turbine is not bound or tapped into anything, so basically it is just driven, through how-ever these jet engines work.

Water jets certainly work with the system i've put together as well, but in that case you'll unlikely be using more than 1:1 gearing before getting up to very high speeds, given their very high demand for torque.

I agree with the size of the combustion chamber, though i'm guessing the reason it is so big is more gameplay oriented than reality oriented.

[ElfBossHogg]

From a raw power through a turbine perspective adding a second combustion chamber in line with the first made a huge difference. In the description a turbine converts pressure to RPS and a combustion chamber creates pressure. In my STINGRAY water jet boat I was able to go from a max of 80 knots to close to 180 knots just by adding another combustion chamber to each jet engine. I didn't add another intake and there is no exhaust. Adding another turbine actually reduced the speed. The trade off with the additional combustion chamber is that your are going to be sucking a lot more fuel.

[fsendventd]

Originally posted by Ra-Ra-Rasputin:

When i say "basically an afterburning jet engine" i mean roughly in the sense of how it works, instead of thrust i'm providing more air pressure than any modern material can handle. The game comes with an actual afterburner exhaust along with the wonderful ripping noise that they make.

Basically, you have to imagine that the first turbine is just a combustion-driven compressor, instead of a turbine. It looks like a turbine, it smells like a turbine, it sounds like a turbine, and that means it's just a very fancy compressor :lunar2019deadpanpig: The reason this is because the turbine is not bound or tapped into anything, so basically it is just driven, through how-ever these jet engines work.

Water jets certainly work with the system i've put together as well, but in that case you'll unlikely be using more than 1:1 gearing before getting up to very high speeds, given their very high demand for torque.

I agree with the size of the combustion chamber, though i'm guessing the reason it is so big is more gameplay oriented than reality oriented.

I mean, I don't really actually use gearing. Should I be?

[Ra-Ra-Rasputin]

Depends on application. If you have one engine for 2 water jets, probably shouldn't, given that the torque figures are likely too low. One jet engine for each water jet though? Absolutely. Where they're geared at depends on your boat more than anything else.

[fsendventd]

Originally posted by Ra-Ra-Rasputin:

Depends on application. If you have one engine for 2 water jets, probably shouldn't, given that the torque figures are likely too low. One jet engine for each water jet though? Absolutely. Where they're geared at depends on your boat more than anything else.

Wait, you gear them so that there's more RPS on the output shaft?

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I'd gear them down to get enough torque on the things to be useful.

[Ra-Ra-Rasputin]

It depends entirely on what you can throttle them to normally. The jet engine example i put up gives more torque than 3 large engines without gearing. If you can run the jet engines at around 30-40 RPS with 1:2, you're more than set for absurd speed.