Helicopter always either over revvs or under revvs.

[RiP candyland]

Like the title says. This helicopter https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2025585438. When I originally start the helicopter I have to set the throttle high to get it off the ground, but then once I am in the air I can't seem to find the ideal revvs. Either I am falling out of the sky or I am blowing up my engines.

[ElfBossHogg]

Originally posted by candyland:

Like the title says. This helicopter https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2025585438. When I originally start the helicopter I have to set the throttle high to get it off the ground, but then once I am in the air I can't seem to find the ideal revvs. Either I am falling out of the sky or I am blowing up my engines.

For Helicopters you really don't need to play with the throttle that much. You typically find that sweet spot for the functionality of your vessel (may rev higher if it's a lifter) and you just use the collective changes for lift. The sweet spot could be found through a combination of throttle and gears to get the right RPS to use for whatever you may need to do. Unfortunately I don' have time at this moment to look at your workshop creation but ahead of that keep in mind the throttle isn't everything. :)

[RiP candyland]

Originally posted by ElfBossHogg:

Originally posted by candyland:

Like the title says. This helicopter https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2025585438. When I originally start the helicopter I have to set the throttle high to get it off the ground, but then once I am in the air I can't seem to find the ideal revvs. Either I am falling out of the sky or I am blowing up my engines.

For Helicopters you really don't need to play with the throttle that much. You typically find that sweet spot for the functionality of your vessel (may rev higher if it's a lifter) and you just use the collective changes for lift. The sweet spot could be found through a combination of throttle and gears to get the right RPS to use for whatever you may need to do. Unfortunately I don' have time at this moment to look at your workshop creation but ahead of that keep in mind the throttle isn't everything. :)

like I said. I can't find the sweet spot.

[Ra-Ra-Rasputin]

Generally speaking the sweet spot for most copter setups is engines sitting at 11 RPS. 10-9 is functional if you don't intend to lift up loads, more if you need heavy-duty lifting.

I can take a look at it later, but i'll be a bit busy with other stuff.

[RiP candyland]

Originally posted by Ra-Ra-Rasputin:

Generally speaking the sweet spot for most copter setups is engines sitting at 11 RPS. 10-9 is functional if you don't intend to lift up loads, more if you need heavy-duty lifting.

I can take a look at it later, but i'll be a bit busy with other stuff.

So I tried keeping the revs at around 11rps but once again as soon as the helicopter is in the air, the same throttle that worked on the ground has my engines over revving like crazy and then I can't find that sweet spot for some reason. It is always too high or too low. On the ground it is just fine, but as soon as I am in the air it's all over.

[Ra-Ra-Rasputin]

That's why you don't manually control the throttle. You need electronics to handle it. The quickest way to do it is with a PID. For your standard medium or small engine fare, the values 0.7, 0.00001 and 0.03 should be overall pretty functional.

[RiP candyland]

Originally posted by Ra-Ra-Rasputin:

That's why you don't manually control the throttle. You need electronics to handle it. The quickest way to do it is with a PID. For your standard medium or small engine fare, the values 0.7, 0.00001 and 0.03 should be overall pretty functional.

I don't have a PID yet.

[Goobs]

Just gonna drop this over here as well.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2025822007

Stormworks throttles don't work like real-world throttles do. You need something automated to control it.
(Real world helicopters actually use something similar to a PID to control RPM, and the pilot only controls collective as a flight control anyway)

Easiest way is a PID with:
From 0.1 - 1 top value, and the middle and bottom values set to 0.

[Ra-Ra-Rasputin]

Also, you do have a PID, because you have access to microcontrollers, which have a PID :)
I can poke around with the helo itself after i've had a snooze!

[RiP candyland]

Originally posted by Ra-Ra-Rasputin:

That's why you don't manually control the throttle. You need electronics to handle it. The quickest way to do it is with a PID. For your standard medium or small engine fare, the values 0.7, 0.00001 and 0.03 should be overall pretty functional.

And I don't understand why I require PID for this anyway. Like I can get the throttle in the perfect position and then as soon as I tilt a little bit that same throttle has the helicopter blowing up. it makes no sense.

[Ra-Ra-Rasputin]

Of course it makes sense, silly :)
How much the engine can do is entirely based on load. The load increases as the engine starts to lift the helicopter, reducing the revs in the engine as the resistance increases. When the load decreases, the engine's stress is suddenly reduced, causing it to push its revs very high.

It's no different to engaging the clutch in a car.

Anyhow i fixed it, here you go!
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2026152888

[ElfBossHogg]

Originally posted by candyland:

Originally posted by Ra-Ra-Rasputin:

That's why you don't manually control the throttle. You need electronics to handle it. The quickest way to do it is with a PID. For your standard medium or small engine fare, the values 0.7, 0.00001 and 0.03 should be overall pretty functional.

And I don't understand why I require PID for this anyway. Like I can get the throttle in the perfect position and then as soon as I tilt a little bit that same throttle has the helicopter blowing up. it makes no sense.

As Ra indicated throttle controls the "power output" of the engine. If you don't "consume" that power then the engine will run away or if you over consume it will die. What you want to do is dynamically have the throttle change to maintain a set RPS from the engine. Therefore my original statement may be somewhat misleading and should be changed: you don't need to play with the throttle much as you should have a controller to dynamically change it to maintain RPS. PIDs are perfect for this. Use the throttle to specific the RPS value you want from the engine and make that your set point for the PID, have the engine RPS be your variable, set your gains (probably 0.1, 0.00001, 0.01) and take that output and send it to the engine. At that point it will be a matter of adjusting the throttle to find the right RPS sweet spot for your helicopter.

[RiP candyland]

Originally posted by Ra-Ra-Rasputin:

Of course it makes sense, silly :)
How much the engine can do is entirely based on load. The load increases as the engine starts to lift the helicopter, reducing the revs in the engine as the resistance increases. When the load decreases, the engine's stress is suddenly reduced, causing it to push its revs very high.

It's no different to engaging the clutch in a car.

Anyhow i fixed it, here you go!
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2026152888

Took a look at the custom PID that you made. I feel really dumb, cause it makes no sense to me at all. Gonna give it a spin and see whats up.

[Ra-Ra-Rasputin]

Well, the PID itself isn't easy to understand, even if you know exactly what it does. Basically it measures the value it's watching against a defined degree and outputs a value that is a difference between the two based on a formula. That's the simplest enough explanation i can give you.

[RiP candyland]

Originally posted by Ra-Ra-Rasputin:

Well, the PID itself isn't easy to understand, even if you know exactly what it does. Basically it measures the value it's watching against a defined degree and outputs a value that is a difference between the two based on a formula. That's the simplest enough explanation i can give you.

I mean I think I understand the basic concept, but it is very overwhelming all the same. Sort of seems like if you're a regular idiot like me, this stuff is basically incomprehensible without looking it up, or asking about it.

[Ra-Ra-Rasputin]

It's better to understand what it does:
You give it a value that it attempts to match the value it's watching by modifying something with its output that is supposed to affect the value it's watching.

P is how hard it tries to match that value.
I is how over-eager it should be (usually a 5 decimal number)
D is sort of a counter-force to P, to prevent it from overshooting of wobbling around the value too much.