Keeping a boat level

[Sandwich-Anomaly]

As the title says. Ive seen several tutorial videos on how to make a stabilizing system but cant get them to work. unless im just missing something. anybody have any tips for making a simple stabilizing system?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2110555349&searchtext=victoria+wip

I would add weight to counter the tilt but If possible something to stabilize her would be an option i could go for later. I would like to build it myself if its not too much to ask.

[Mister Creosote Vomit]

make sure to add weight blocks at the bottom of your hull.

[Ottomic]

The more pointed the keel, the more weight you want at the bottom. Flatter keels can maintain a higher CoG (center of gravity).

[GrumpyOldMan]

Use weight blocks or active stabilization systems (weight blocks moving on tracks) only as a last measure.

You want the base hull to be as stable and balanced as you can. I usually place a paint block behind the center of mass indicator, to better judge any offset.

Ballast tanks is where it's at, if you ask me. You can fill them to keep a certain draught.
Use tanks that are at the very bottom of your ship for that.

You can also put some custom tanks as far as possible to port/starboard sides for roll correction tanks.
Depending on how fast you want to correct it you simply add more pumps for faster fluid transfer between them, or simply fill/drain from the sea. A few ways to approach this.

The biggest pro of ballast tanks is that you can empty them if you want to carry more load and fill them when you need to sit deeper in the water, be it due to waves or to pass underneath that one pesky bridge.

[Ra-Ra-Rasputin]

Originally posted by Holden Commodore VL Walkinshaw:

make sure to add weight blocks at the bottom of your hull.

Just to put it out there this is generally speaking the worst choice and the absolute last resort.
Weight blocks not only slow down the craft but kill fuel efficiency.

I recommend an active stabilization system. Here's a pair of examples from my example things guide:

Active balance weight-bar (the one Grumpy old man mentions)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2061013316

Anti-roll system using ballast:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2032848199

Keep in mind that the latter is mounted on pivots solely to show its effectiveness, in the craft itself you only have the 3 tanks (or 2 tanks and intake from the ocean) You can compare not having it by simply poking a hole in the central tank.

[Sandwich-Anomaly]

Originally posted by Ra-Ra-Rasputin:

Originally posted by Holden Commodore VL Walkinshaw:

make sure to add weight blocks at the bottom of your hull.

Just to put it out there this is generally speaking the worst choice and the absolute last resort.
Weight blocks not only slow down the craft but kill fuel efficiency.

I recommend an active stabilization system. Here's a pair of examples from my example things guide:

Active balance weight-bar (the one Grumpy old man mentions)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2061013316

Anti-roll system using ballast:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2032848199

Keep in mind that the latter is mounted on pivots solely to show its effectiveness, in the craft itself you only have the 3 tanks (or 2 tanks and intake from the ocean) You can compare not having it by simply poking a hole in the central tank.

alright thank you. Ill give some of these a try and adapt later on as i add more stuff to my boat.

[Sandwich-Anomaly]

Originally posted by Ra-Ra-Rasputin:

Active balance weight-bar (the one Grumpy old man mentions)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2061013316

alright i tried this one out as im not sure if im ready for the second one and I have questions for the this one. Does the placement of the tilt sensor matter?

does the counter weight need to run the entire length of the boat?

are there settings or numbers i need to enter in the microcontroller for it to work?

[lordFrith]

Originally posted by Sandwich-Anomaly:

Does the placement of the tilt sensor matter?

does the counter weight need to run the entire length of the boat?

are there settings or numbers i need to enter in the microcontroller for it to work?

NJ has a pretty good tutorial on how to set up the moving keel, i've found them to be pretty effective

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUr4yN18BxU

the settings on the PID effect how sensitive the movement is and can require some tuning

the counterweight should be weighted so as to not unbalance your boats pitch. My boat leaned forwards as well as sideways so i placed counterweight at rear which both pulled the aft down and stabilized the roll. For boats that don't suffer from pitch issues the weight is either a large block near the center of mass or a long strip the full length of the hull

also adding some fin stabilizers can help when moving and in rough weather. getting thrown about on rough seas seems to confuse the stability counterweight system sometimes. again used the NJ tutorial which is for compact boats but worked very well on my medium sized vessel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2AAYBBVM4g

i had a very unstable boat that is now rock solid thanks to a stability counterweight and some fins

but in future i'll be taking GrumpOldMans advice and "You want the base hull to be as stable and balanced as you can"!

[Sandwich-Anomaly]

Originally posted by lordFrith:

NJ has a pretty good tutorial on how to set up the moving keel, i've found them to be pretty effective

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUr4yN18BxU

the settings on the PID effect how sensitive the movement is and can require some tuning

the counterweight should be weighted so as to not unbalance your boats pitch. My boat leaned forwards as well as sideways so i placed counterweight at rear which both pulled the aft down and stabilized the roll. For boats that don't suffer from pitch issues the weight is either a large block near the center of mass or a long strip the full length of the hull

also adding some fin stabilizers can help when moving and in rough weather. getting thrown about on rough seas seems to confuse the stability counterweight system sometimes. again used the NJ tutorial which is for compact boats but worked very well on my medium sized vessel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2AAYBBVM4g

i had a very unstable boat that is now rock solid thanks to a stability counterweight and some fins

but in future i'll be taking GrumpOldMans advice and "You want the base hull to be as stable and balanced as you can"!

ive used those two before. and on the boat i an working on. the counterweight one had the issue of... rocking the boat as i kept figuring out what the right settings were. still couldnt get it to stay steady and... rocked even more.

[lordFrith]

yeah i found PID tuning infuriating for the counterweight. generally if its wobbling like a drunkard its overpowered. i had to reduce weight and lower the PID settings on mine. Got it working in the end but was a lot of trial and error and swearing

my PID settings were (12,0,5000) if that context helps.

it was adding the fins which made the most difference, even when not moving they seem to calm the wobbles a bit so i could reduce the counterweight to just reacting to more severe tilts

EDIT: just noticed your download link, not an expert but i'll have a look. sometimes a second pair of eyes can help

another edit: i also see you are not using PID but "boat balancer" MC

[XLjedi]

Originally posted by Sandwich-Anomaly:

ive used those two before. and on the boat i an working on. the counterweight one had the issue of... rocking the boat as i kept figuring out what the right settings were. still couldnt get it to stay steady and... rocked even more.

MrNjersey's videos should be taken for what they are... Baseline suggestions for a way to do something. ...not necessarily perfect or fully optimized, there could be better alternatives. Nice to see a humble suggestion without proclamation of which way is best/worst. You can make those choices for yourself.

The videos are also from an older version, so what maybe worked perfectly in the past might need additional tweaks nowadays. Not to mention each craft is a little unique in its own way.

To get a craft up-to-par for the intended mission, I follow the 80/20 rule. Then I can tweak it over the next month or two as issues present themselves. I may never deem it fully complete, I imagine there is always room for improvement... somewhere with something.

[Sandwich-Anomaly]

[quote=lordFrith;2950377478199563121

another edit: i also see you are not using PID but "boat balancer" MC [/quote]

yeah i tried out rasputin's stuff so that got left there. Ill be going back to MrJ's to test it out further

Originally posted by XLjedi:

MrNjersey's videos should be taken for what they are... Baseline suggestions for a way to do something. ...not necessarily perfect or fully optimized, there could be better alternatives. Nice to see a humble suggestion without proclamation of which way is best/worst. You can make those choices for yourself.

The videos are also from an older version, so what maybe worked perfectly in the past might need additional tweaks nowadays. Not to mention each craft is a little unique in its own way.

To get a craft up-to-par for the intended mission, I follow the 80/20 rule. Then I can tweak it over the next month or two as issues present themselves. I may never deem it fully complete, I imagine there is always room for improvement... somewhere with something.

yes I do take them as suggestions and i continue to look elsewhere to see if there are better means of levelling a ship. more recent ones as I know that recent updates have changed things in the game.

My boat has no real purpose just yet except for a floating home for my character but I did plan to add a crane and a smaller boat that can be deployed by said crane and stuff... even a small helicopter ive made but those require the boat to be level.

[Ra-Ra-Rasputin]

Originally posted by Sandwich-Anomaly:

alright i tried this one out as im not sure if im ready for the second one and I have questions for the this one. Does the placement of the tilt sensor matter?

does the counter weight need to run the entire length of the boat?

are there settings or numbers i need to enter in the microcontroller for it to work?

Tilt sensor works best when it's in the middle of the boat. Make sure it's facing to the side. If your boat flops even harder the tilt sensor is facing the wrong way, just turn it to point the other way.

The counter weight can be just one big battery as well, how much weight you need and what it's made of is based on testing it, try with lighter weights first. The location of the counterweight works best when it's close to the center of mass, as you need heavier weights and more motion when it's further away from them

You don't need to modify anything, but you can. The way that works is that it intentionally overreacts to tilt, and then returns the bar slowly toward the middle. It's a simplified microcontroller that's easier to understand than the complex one i actually use, but it works well.

It doesn't use PID, because PIDs are too much of a black box and can need a lot of tuning. The only thing this one needs is weight adjustment. You can also adjust how far the thing moves, some boats only need relatively short tracks, as much as 5 to 6 track pieces can be enough.

I've balanced a boat before by having its engine sit on one of those tracks, so you don't necessarily need to even add weight.

[Sandwich-Anomaly]

Originally posted by Ra-Ra-Rasputin:

Tilt sensor works best when it's in the middle of the boat. Make sure it's facing to the side. If your boat flops even harder the tilt sensor is facing the wrong way, just turn it to point the other way.

The counter weight can be just one big battery as well, how much weight you need and what it's made of is based on testing it, try with lighter weights first. The location of the counterweight works best when it's close to the center of mass, as you need heavier weights and more motion when it's further away from them

You don't need to modify anything, but you can. The way that works is that it intentionally overreacts to tilt, and then returns the bar slowly toward the middle. It's a simplified microcontroller that's easier to understand than the complex one i actually use, but it works well.

It doesn't use PID, because PIDs are too much of a black box and can need a lot of tuning. The only thing this one needs is weight adjustment. You can also adjust how far the thing moves, some boats only need relatively short tracks, as much as 5 to 6 track pieces can be enough.

I've balanced a boat before by having its engine sit on one of those tracks, so you don't necessarily need to even add weight.

ive tried to adjust the weight of the thing but it just keeps tiling slightly to the right. and as i try to adjust the weight of the counter weight it sort of levels out and then tilts to the point where the thing makes it worse and the whole boat starts rocking.

[lordFrith]

i also note that despite all the stability fixes i've made discussed above i just tested on full wind strength and... my previously stable boat rolls sideways through the sea

i think they've upped the weather strength for 1.0!

[Sandwich-Anomaly]

Originally posted by lordFrith:

i also note that despite all the stability fixes i've made discussed above i just tested on full wind strength and... my previously stable boat rolls sideways through the sea

i think they've upped the weather strength for 1.0!

something to consider when i do get the tilt fixed and prepare for it when i set sail.