Help with jet engine on a ship.

[NotNice]

I've already built my first ♥♥♥♥ that will use a jet turbine instead of diesel engines to power a propeller,however it failed the sea trials.It seems by the gauges that the whole turbine is lacking air pressure,and I suspect that may be due to my air intake setup,I've linked the turbine's impeller trough a duct system that leads to a funnel,its not too long but the funnel is closed off with ports.If I don't close it off the engine room floods,even if I have blocks sealing off the impeller from the rest of the engine room.

Can someone look at it and see why the turbine isn't getting air right?I

I've seen other setups that include a jet engine in an enclosed space that has ports towards the open world and they get air fine.

https://easyupload.io/gl4ncx

[Visual-Voodoo]

Pretty sure jets don't need an outside air port, you can run a jet in a sealed box as long as you have a single block gap at the front intake. I'm sure someone will correct this if I'm wrong though mate.

[NotNice]

I solved the problem by adding a few more duct pieces to lift the impeller a bit and now the ducts are isolated and the ship is moving.

The problem is the turbine doesn't pick up more than 10RPS,the intake,compressor,combustion and turbine all go around 9RPS giving 9RPS to a gigaprop which moves the ship but dead slow.

Why wouldn't it be picking up speed?

[Dank Williams]

Sounds like it's just running the starter but not actually running. Check fuel pumps and make sure you have jet fuel not diesel.

Also jet engines only need an intake on the front, they can be completely enclosed and still work.

[Devious Toast [SAC]]

Originally posted by Hunter101:

I solved the problem by adding a few more duct pieces to lift the impeller a bit and now the ducts are isolated and the ship is moving.

The problem is the turbine doesn't pick up more than 10RPS,the intake,compressor,combustion and turbine all go around 9RPS giving 9RPS to a gigaprop which moves the ship but dead slow.

Why wouldn't it be picking up speed?

It's a matter of torque. Turbine engines are great at fast RPS, but have little torque relative to other engines. You need to use a gear box to turn rps into torque.

So, after some tinkering. I'd recommend:

-using a pid for the turbine, so when you're at full throttle and decide to remove the load off the engine (prop clutch and generator), it doesn't explode.

-Change the generator to medium size.

-Use a 3:1 gear reduction.

-Either using a controller, or adding a starter button. Current setup has the starter running constantly while the engine is running.

Not sure about other peoples games, but for me, the rotating prop shaft you had going on in the engine room caused the ship to capsize. In testing removed it, it resolved that issue. Believe it was tied to the engines rps, which at full throttle the shaft just went crazy. Only seemed to happen when the ship wasn't moving.

Also ran into an issue with the engine stalling out, traced it to the jet intake. I put the intake directly on the compressor and it worked fine from there.

After those changes, under full load, the engine ran at just under 50 rps and the ship was sailing at a respectable speed.

[NotNice]

The shaft flipping the ship was due to it clipping with blocks around it - fixed that.Rotating objects like that are actually proven to stabilize a ship when done right.

As for the engine,I have made the mistake of placing the gearbox arrows toward the engine,which is what you usually do for diesels.When I turned them around toward the prop the ship did 19 knots in 3:1 gear ratio.

That is just not enough for this project to be a success as the whole idea was greater speed and it came out slower than my diesel ships that are even bigger,and jet fuel costs 4 times more.

I tried every single gear ratio and 3:1 is the only one that seems to work.

More importantly the guy on the workshop who I borrowed the turbine design lied as he promised 70 Gigaprop RPS and it maxes out at 22.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1931565988

[SpannerMonkey]

Hi you can get really good ship speed from turbines, usually starting by throwing away a prop or two, you will not need as many as you think, next making sensible changes to gearbox setup mainly by watching the output to prop rps , the higher you can get that the faster your brick will go.
But it's not really balanced out by better versatility, in fact having done it, I'd say that putting turbines in the recovery ship was a bad idea as 72000 units of fuel is gone in about 30 mins at max speed, hence you can't really use it except for local runs, 15 mins out and 15 mins back is pretty rubbish, whereas the much slower diesel version can make it up to the arctic, run a couple of missions and back to warmer climes all on the same fuel.

[neppy]

more turbine = more fuel efficient
just stack up 10,20 or whatever you need
also if size of the jet engine doesn't matter you can return your turbine exaust to combustion chamber
it will decrease fuel usage further more



Reddit Link: Jet Turbines are crazy efficient

[Devious Toast [SAC]]

Originally posted by Hunter101:

More importantly the guy on the workshop who I borrowed the turbine design lied as he promised 70 Gigaprop RPS and it maxes out at 22.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1931565988

With that persons test stand, it does reach close to 70rps, issue is, there is no resistance to the prop. Water is the medium that gives ship propellers resistance. Example of this is having a ship in high waves, if a prop comes out of the water, they engines will speed up drastically.

The idea is similar with aircraft propellers, but for them they are affected by air, its blade count and blade pitch.

Originally posted by Hunter101:

I tried every single gear ratio and 3:1 is the only one that seems to work.

Don't forget that you can add more than 1 gear box into a series allowing for greater gear reduction/increase. Each gearbox in series adds exponential affects.

What you'd probably expect for 2x 3:1 reductions @150 rps is 150/6 = 25.
What you actually get ( (150/3)/3) = 16.66~

Something to tinker with.

[SpannerMonkey]

Originally posted by neppy:

more turbine = more fuel efficient
just stack up 10,20 or whatever you need



Reddit Link: Jet Turbines are crazy efficient

Is that right? still? post is 11 months old, costs nothing to find out, cheers..

[Ra-Ra-Rasputin]

No, it's not correct by any stretch of the imagination, and any post i read on reddit about the mechanics of the game is completely faulty when i went and tested them myself. Not one statement i found to be correct.

It's a common belief on Reddit that there are no torque curves because the torque meter doesn't report them, but still they can't understand why their engine revs faster at higher RPS.

The turbines divide the output of the jet engine by more than halving the torque for its output. Medium turbines in particular suck up a significant amount of power. You'll get a better result by examining the torque and gearboxing it appropriately.


The setup pictured is "efficient" in fuel usage, but it is so immensely heavy and huge it is not very viable in any setup. Literally 2 tons of fuel takes less space and weighs less, and it's trivial to produce that much electricity with just a ton of fuel.

[NotNice]

Originally posted by neppy:

more turbine = more fuel efficient
just stack up 10,20 or whatever you need
also if size of the jet engine doesn't matter you can return your turbine exaust to combustion chamber
it will decrease fuel usage further more



Reddit Link: Jet Turbines are crazy efficient

This actually works like crazy,you slap a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of turbines with just one compressor and combustion chamber and the ship literally takes off into the air at over 150 knots.

Then you just limit the throttle to a speed at which the ship moves normally and burns minimal amount of fuel.

I this one moving at 40 knots and burning one unit of jet fuel per second - the project is saved.

[SpannerMonkey]

Hi back again, took a look at the turbine problem i was having, based on that comment from reddit.

Let's just say it's been a little bit of a revelation, transforming two previously pretty useless craft into very useful ones, the arctic express is now up and running 75 knots all the way and for the same fuel as 4 large diesels doing less than half the speed. The total weight with the new arrangement is down by over 2500kg ( it would be more but i added more home comforts :)) , so weight is not an issue, unless it causes a change in the COM of course, but hey, i'll take that.

Downsides, erm it doesn't sound very nice, but reducing the number of compressors combustion chambers etc did have the effect of getting the sound level down to real world kind of levels, and it's quite pleasant right now, no doubt what's shoving the craft along but no longer in your face. Getting fuel may be an issue in career mode, but if you sort some storage etc before totally committed to the turbine route you should be good, but in creative or lol mode i's no issue.

So does it work, definitely, and if you're prepared to re engineer a bit more stuff, like final drive arrangement, and spend a little time tweaking, you can be rewarded with extremely satisfying levels of performance.

One of the joy's of SW is that you really don't have to take anyone's word for anything, it's very easy to find out if a claim is bogus or fact, just build it and see.

[NotNice]

^ Yea Turbines are OP as hell right now,we gotta enjoy it while it lasts because they will probably be nerfed in future patches.

Anyway if anyone is having problems with turbines being too loud,I modded the audio files and reduced sound by half so now they sound ok and don't destroy your ears:

https://easyupload.io/7r83ol

Place in Stormworks B&R>rom>audio