Helicopter control with blade-angle instead of throttle

[Pip]

Currently turbine helicopters are very unrealistic in the sense that to go up and down you have to increase or decrease the throttle of the engine.

In theory this is possible and this is how many of the prototype helicopters in the early 20th century worked, but in practice this usually gets you killed. Engines, especially turbine engines, can't spool up and down fast enough for rpm-based lift to be practical. Instead modern helicopters have a second control set next to the throttle: the collective.

In real life helicopters run at a constant throttle and manage going up and down by increasing or decreasing the collective. The collective changes the blade-angle of the rotors. This increases or decreases the lift the rotor blades generate.

Now of course this is a game and isn't even focused on realistic helicopters, but this is an engineering game. The idea of changing blade-angle and having a constant throttle is a very important engineering principle for rotary-wing aircraft. So controlling a helicopter with a magical instant throttling jet turbine is quite immersion breaking and kind of ruins helicopters for me.

The weird thing is though that the tail rotors do seem to be working the way they should. They have a constant throttle and manage the yaw direction with a seperate yaw function that seems to emulate changing the blade-angle.

https://i.imgur.com/Pytvw3k.png

What I suggest is adding a spool up and spool down time to the turbine engines and adding a blade-angle function to helicopter rotors similar to the tail rotor.

This doesn't make the game overly complicated as it's still possible to link the throttle to the rotors (except this will get you in hilariously situations as you will face the wrath of delayed control inputs). Diesel engines and the like could still be used to directly control the throttle but would only be feasible for very light helicopters as they are generally not powerful enough.

In the end this will not only satisfy the nerds like me but also add another layer of (optional) depth ontop of the game that is not too forced or based on hard to grasp concepts.

Ontop of that the turbine engine will also get the necessary distinction from more conventional engines. It is very powerful but has the downside of taking a long time to spool up and down.

[Deltars]

I think the game is reasonably realistic in this regard. In a helicopter, when you increase the collective, this in effect increases the throttle because the change in blade angle means the engine does more work and so needs to consume more fuel to keep the same RPM.

We don't want to make helicopter-only engines etc. that only turn at a set speed and automatically manage their throttle to keep the same RPM, the idea of the game is that components are intercompatible and engines can be swapped out.

We also dont want to have complex logic connections between rotor and engine because it makes the game unnecessarily complicated.

If you think of the rotor component as automatically setting its blade angle to maintain its RPM, then it is a very realistic model that allows the engines to be simpler to logic up, and more compatible with other vehicle types.

[tommy]

Originally posted by Pip:

Currently turbine helicopters are very unrealistic in the sense that to go up and down you have to increase or decrease the throttle of the engine.

In theory this is possible and this is how many of the prototype helicopters in the early 20th century worked, but in practice this usually gets you killed. Engines, especially turbine engines, can't spool up and down fast enough for rpm-based lift to be practical. Instead modern helicopters have a second control set next to the throttle: the collective.

In real life helicopters run at a constant throttle and manage going up and down by increasing or decreasing the collective. The collective changes the blade-angle of the rotors. This increases or decreases the lift the rotor blades generate.

Now of course this is a game and isn't even focused on realistic helicopters, but this is an engineering game. The idea of changing blade-angle and having a constant throttle is a very important engineering principle for rotary-wing aircraft. So controlling a helicopter with a magical instant throttling jet turbine is quite immersion breaking and kind of ruins helicopters for me.

The weird thing is though that the tail rotors do seem to be working the way they should. They have a constant throttle and manage the yaw direction with a seperate yaw function that seems to emulate changing the blade-angle.

https://i.imgur.com/Pytvw3k.png

What I suggest is adding a spool up and spool down time to the turbine engines and adding a blade-angle function to helicopter rotors similar to the tail rotor.

This doesn't make the game overly complicated as it's still possible to link the throttle to the rotors (except this will get you in hilariously situations as you will face the wrath of delayed control inputs). Diesel engines and the like could still be used to directly control the throttle but would only be feasible for very light helicopters as they are generally not powerful enough.

In the end this will not only satisfy the nerds like me but also add another layer of (optional) depth ontop of the game that is not too forced or based on hard to grasp concepts.

Ontop of that the turbine engine will also get the necessary distinction from more conventional engines. It is very powerful but has the downside of taking a long time to spool up and down.

You have far too much time & issues on your mind. Relax, play & have fun mate jesus

[Baal]

In my opinion Pip is somewhat right.

Up and Down of the Helicopter should be controlled by the angle of rotor blades (the collective) instead of the throttle of the engine.
This would be more realistic and also it would fix the problem with the changing Engine/Motor sounds when you climb with your helicopter. That constant sound change is annoying and not realistic!

But I understand the point of the developer, in my opinion the best solution wold be an compromise:
- Engines staying like they are now so that they are more compatible and easier to use
- Rotors are connected with the Engine and the RPM of the rotors is dependend on the Engine throttle
- Collective is an new input value for the Rotors that decide if your Helicopter is moving up or down
- The result of RPM and the Collective is the lifting force

Benefits:
- More realistic, and better teaching effect how an Helicopter works
- Still easy to use and compatible Engines
- Constant engine sound (like it should be)
- Better finetuning of your helicopter: you control the collective permanent in flying, but you rarely change the engine throttle - you keep it on your optimised/desired level, but if you need to change it mid flight it is still posible

[Baal]

Currently that is only working with the heavy rotor and also only if you change blade pitch to neutral. The Default "positive" means the collective is only visual (propably an bug?)

This collective needs to be on every Rotor, because this is how Helicopters work simplified.

The Engine Power result in the Motor RPM and the Collective should be an sepperate green input on the rotors (like on the new Heavy Rotor). BUT the actual lifting force should be the result of motor RPM and Collective!

I hope the Devs pushes these feature to the other Rotors soon. But i am happy to see progress in that matter. :)

[Baal]

Now since 0.31 every Main-Rotor has the wished collective - Yaaaayyy :)

To use it "Blade Pitch" must be set to "neutral", the general blade pitch then depends on the Value that is given to the green "Collective" input.

Otherwise when Blade Pitch is on "positive" (default), the Collective is ignored and the Pitch is permanently +1.00 and lifit will depend on engine Power - this is the old system and its the default when adding an new rotor is to keep kompatibility to the old designs.

I have to say, this is an very elegant solution!



Huuuge Thank You to the Developers!!