Invasions: Pros and cons

[Kasic]

Having just completed a replay of DS1 with my brother (and having played all DS games multiple times), I am once again reminded how much I despise the standard sort of invasion mechanic implemented in these games. I find them entirely unwanted, interruptive, annoying, potentially dangerous to your save file via hackers, unfair, and terrible game design. In the interest of this not being me ranting and this thread not just becoming a troll fest, I'll do my best to objectively lay out my arguments and look at the whole picture about what is good and what is bad about invasions.

I'll also preface this with two things. I am not a bad player by any means. I am capable of defeating most invaders even when they're twinking, I have played through the games entirely solo with many different builds, and I am experienced with most weapons/items/spells in the games. I also do not, in any way, enjoy pvp in Dark Souls games (for reasons I'll get into) and have never invaded beyond what was required for some covenant rewards in areas where it is relevant, and I did not build my character for pvp exclusively so the fights were fair.

The pros of invasions:
1) Invasions get your heart beating faster. An enemy player is far more dangerous than any in-game mob. You do not know their build or playstyle, they can appear from anywhere at any time, and they are smart. They are the most dangerous thing in the game and if you want a challenge then a skilled invader is the biggest challenge you'll get in DS.
2) They break up monotony of areas and are unpredictable. Even if you've played the game dozens of times, having an enemy player somewhere in the map makes you have to rethink what you're doing. Are you going to wait in a good spot to fight? Are you going to rush to the boss? Are you going to hide? Are you going to try and clear towards something you've almost reached? Etc.
3) It offers people who are invading a challenge because (theoretically but pretty much never in practice) they are at somewhat of a disadvantage with less estus and only invading near/above their level.
4) Lore-wise it's part of the game.
5) The player being invaded can earn some souls/other drops depending on the game. The invader can earn souls/rewards depending on the game.

The cons of invasions:
1) The player being invaded is forced to deal with them. You cannot leave the area, rest at a bonfire, expel them from your world, etc. Some games have items that let you sort of turn the enemies against them for a bit, but it's not that effective.
2) It interrupts your game in an almost always unwanted manner.
3) Hackers. Do I need to say more?
4) Twinking. If you do this I don't care what reasons you give, you're a terrible person.
5) It disproportionately harms newer players that do not have experience/skill and are simply trying to learn the game/progress.
6) It's extremely annoying to have to reset the area because you needed to use healing items fighting an invader.
7) Lag ... regardless of if you enjoy pvp, it's never fun to have a guy in front of you and then lag teleport into backstabbing you the next frame.
8) Invaders almost always try to run into enemies to make it easier for them to win with the help of the mobs.
9) Most invaders KNOW they're exploiting every possible thing they can to get an advantage. They are not there for a fair fight.
10) An invader is built to pvp. A host player is probably not.
11) The host player doesn't stand much of anything to gain from defeating invaders. They are purely an obstacle to progress. In some areas of the game there are so many invaders the game becomes essentially unplayable, forcing you to either go offline or run through recklessly.
12) The potential for loss as a player being invaded is huge. Lost your souls and are trying to get them back and get invaded? The chances of retrieving them just dropped dramatically. Trying to clear a boss? Have fun now needing to run by the invader too.
13) It makes co-op play with friends more difficult. Not everyone wants to play a hardcore game solo. Some aren't that good, others just want to dink around and 2-hand a shield to fully tank Kalameet's focused breath attack while your mage partner does DPS. Co-op is part of the game just as much as invasion.


Whether you enjoy pvp or not, there are always times you don't want to be invaded. Sure you can go offline much of the time. In my playthrough with my brother which we just completed today there were plenty of invaders who repeatedly came after us in certain areas. When they didn't get the hint that we didn't want anything to do with them by alt-f4ing repeatedly, we killed them instead. Late game that was fine, but early game it was stupid to constantly be invaded by people who rushed Wrath of the Gods and could 1 hit everyone with a super fast cast AOE spell.

If you hack and pvp, you are trash.
If you twink and invade, you are a psychopath.
If you invade and fight fair, you are forcing that onto people who probably want nothing to do with you.

[Thermal Lance]

Messaggio originale di Mick the ♥♥♥♥:

Being invaded is not meant to be fun.

Then it's not worth bothering with. I play game to have fun, not to get worked up.

[Kasic]

Messaggio originale di Aether the QTpi:

This reads an awful lot like a 10h story for what essentially is "I want through game with friend & make game easy, but bad red man killed me, no bueno."

Except I prefaced this all with I'm not a stranger to the game and I've soloed all of them with multiple builds including stupid ones that aren't strong and I am quite capable of killing most invaders, so no, this has nothing to do with the difficulty of the game.

What I don't like is hackers/twinks invading to try and screw me over by being complete trolls, people hiding in enemies forever/running away constantly/trying to inflict status debuffs like poison and bleed/wasting my time and lagging and being all around cancer. Drawn out staring contests with phantoms sitting beside 4 enemies and trolling by doing emotes or shooting arrows from behind enemy lines is not, in any way, entertaining.

Messaggio originale di Palaiologos:

I think invasions are great for balancing co-op. The game becomes too easy with 2 or more people since it wasn't really designed for it. The only downsides are hackers and twinks but that wasn't as much of a problem when the game was in its prime.

Invasions don't only happen when you're in co-op. There are plenty of in-game features requiring you to be human even if you aren't summoning anything. NPC invasions, using certain items/builds, item discovery, increased resistances/HP, NPC questlines, character appearance not being a zombie ...

Messaggio originale di Mick the ♥♥♥♥:

Being invaded is not meant to be fun.

Dark Souls is a video game. Including a feature that actively ruins the experience of players is terrible game design. Sure, not everyone is going to like every feature of a game, but forcing players to PVP for essentially no reward in an otherwise solo-ish adventure through areas of monsters that respawn if you fail is just pointlessly cruel for new players, annoying for veteran players who simply don't enjoy pvp where there's often lag and hackers and people built specifically to kill you while you're not likewise equipped, an obstacle for people who do try to play together (as you can't be summoned if you're being invaded), and a scenario ripe for trolls to go above and beyond in an attempt to ruin other people's fun.

[kat998]

Messaggio originale di Kasic:

Messaggio originale di Aether the QTpi:

This reads an awful lot like a 10h story for what essentially is "I want through game with friend & make game easy, but bad red man killed me, no bueno."

Except I prefaced this all with I'm not a stranger to the game and I've soloed all of them with multiple builds including stupid ones that aren't strong and I am quite capable of killing most invaders, so no, this has nothing to do with the difficulty of the game.

What I don't like is hackers/twinks invading to try and screw me over by being complete trolls, people hiding in enemies forever/running away constantly/trying to inflict status debuffs like poison and bleed/wasting my time and lagging and being all around cancer. Drawn out staring contests with phantoms sitting beside 4 enemies and trolling by doing emotes or shooting arrows from behind enemy lines is not, in any way, entertaining.

Messaggio originale di Palaiologos:

I think invasions are great for balancing co-op. The game becomes too easy with 2 or more people since it wasn't really designed for it. The only downsides are hackers and twinks but that wasn't as much of a problem when the game was in its prime.

Invasions don't only happen when you're in co-op. There are plenty of in-game features requiring you to be human even if you aren't summoning anything. NPC invasions, using certain items/builds, item discovery, increased resistances/HP, NPC questlines, character appearance not being a zombie ...

Messaggio originale di Mick the ♥♥♥♥:

Being invaded is not meant to be fun.

Dark Souls is a video game. Including a feature that actively ruins the experience of players is terrible game design. Sure, not everyone is going to like every feature of a game, but forcing players to PVP for essentially no reward in an otherwise solo-ish adventure through areas of monsters that respawn if you fail is just pointlessly cruel for new players, annoying for veteran players who simply don't enjoy pvp where there's often lag and hackers and people built specifically to kill you while you're not likewise equipped, an obstacle for people who do try to play together (as you can't be summoned if you're being invaded), and a scenario ripe for trolls to go above and beyond in an attempt to ruin other people's fun.

All I hear is "bad red man killed be boohoo so unfair"

[Mirmisian]

honestly invasions are pretty radical. as much as people can be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ i still enjoy encountering other people and getting to fight them and all that. also twinking is badass these guys are out here going through the whole ass game at level 15 and messing with people.

[NightCoreMoon]

just play offline, use homeward, or back up your save file the moment you get invaded, immediately sudoku yourself, quit to menu, replace your save, and then continue from where you were.

also in the future steam discussions is one of the silliest places to go to to make posts like this because half the people responding are cancer trolls.

[Vinyltavia]

Messaggio originale di NightCoreMoon:

just play offline, use homeward, or back up your save file the moment you get invaded, immediately sudoku yourself, quit to menu, replace your save, and then continue from where you were.

also in the future steam discussions is one of the silliest places to go to to make posts like this because half the people responding are cancer trolls.

Telling people to commit suicide is the most hilarious thing I've seen.
"You should kill yourself, NOW!"

[Thermal Lance]

Messaggio originale di Vinyltavia:

Messaggio originale di NightCoreMoon:

just play offline, use homeward, or back up your save file the moment you get invaded, immediately sudoku yourself, quit to menu, replace your save, and then continue from where you were.

also in the future steam discussions is one of the silliest places to go to to make posts like this because half the people responding are cancer trolls.

Telling people to commit suicide is the most hilarious thing I've seen.
"You should kill yourself, NOW!"

Well, he's not wrong. LMAO

During my original playthrough it sometime happened that I got completely outclassed. At that point I'd usually throw myself down a hole instead of being used as a toy by some sadistic player.

Sometimes.... To accept your fate is all you can do....


XD