Anyone else find magic kind of underwhelming?

[Quadsword]

I decided to do a pure faith build since I've never actually done a build that uses any kind of magic other than pyromancy. In short: Meh. I don't find that lightning spear helps me in a lot of situations. It's so slow to cast that it's really only useful against enemies that haven't aggro'd yet. I blew 30 humanity to unlock the shortcut in the Demon Ruins to grind for sunlight medals so I could get great lightning spear. I was pretty underwhelmed. It's not that much stronger than the base lightning spear.

You also can't manually aim spells like you can bows, so I still found myself using the composite bow a lot. I don't know, it just doesn't feel like magic helps enough to be worth nerfing your main weapon with split damage. It's also completely useless in PvP so you're at a huge disadvantage if someone invades (granted this game is so old that almost nobody is going to be invading outside of the dedicated PvP hotspots). Only miracles I end up using regularly are great heal and WotG (can't use sunlight blade because my weapon is divine and can't be buffed).

[Melth]

I find magic to be so wildly OP in PvE as to be quite boring. Especially sorcery where you get so much spell ammo and so much damage per cast right out of the gate that you can just mindlessly blast through every zone and every boss without even making a single attack.


I myself am a faith build player every time. I actually love the Lightning Spear and Great Lightning Spear. It's true that their cast time is slow, but it's still definitely castable in combat.

Now I'm not sure what you're talking about with saying you can't manually aim them. You can't go into crosshair mode with them directly, but you absolutely can learn to manually aim to hit even moving enemies at a massive distance with a bit of practice. For that matter, you can just go into crosshair mode with a bow and then switch weapon to a lightning spear and you will still be aiming at the exact same spot.

Lightning Spears are slow, but they hit enormously hard considering how early you can get them. But their greatest strength is that they have massively larger range than every single other spell in the game. Even a bow and arrow barely beats them. So if you learn to manually aim, you can OHKO enemies from gigantic range. It's pretty sweet and a lot of fun and feels a lot more skillful than just locking on with soul arrows and mindlessly blasting away.

You get limited ammo with Lightning Spears of course, and I would say that the main benefit of Great Lightning Spear is less that it's stronger than the already brutal Lightning Spear and more that you now have 20 shots instead of 10.

Most bosses crumple up and die if you hit them with even a few great lightning spears.


It is true that lightning spears (and most spells) are pretty bad in PvP. I wouldn't say that they're useless though. One of my favorite PvP moments was a time when a guy was running away to heal and thought he was at a safe distance. He died estus flask in hand as I blew him away with a manually aimed Great Lightning Spear. Rare moments like that aside, I agree that most ranged spells are pretty bad, but they do help apply pressure and force people to move around. And no human being will ever have a dodge rate of 100%.


Now you say that you don't like 'nerfing your main weapon with split damage'. I would counter with a couple of points. First of all, split damage isn't ALWAYS a nerf. It is true that if a split damage and pure damage weapon have the same attack rating then the split damage one is worse. But in practice, split damage weapons will usually have a higher attack rating. If the attack rating is higher by about 100 points, the split damage weapon will be better. (This is not to mention that they can do damage through shields, a minor bonus).

Getting to 50 faith and rocking out with a divine +10 claymore with minimum stats would cost a cleric about 42 level ups. You get 548 AR while one handing. If you were to make that a +15 claymore on the same character, you would have a pitiful 305 AR. Of course, a quality build with a similar total points investment into Str and Dex could get to about 478 while one-handing. That will slightly exceed the pure faith cleric, but not by that much.

I would also argue that there is absolutely no reason to have just one 'main weapon'. Besides the fact that infinite titanite is available, the game's pre-placed drops will give everyone a ton of colored titanite. If you don't make a divine weapon, then all your green and white titanite the game gave you for free is just going to waste. Why in the world wouldn't you use the titanite the game is handing you to make both a regular weapon and a divine weapon? And for that matter use some of your 30 or so free twinkling titanite to upgrade one of the several unique weapons which scale with faith.


Now you might still be thinking back about how that quality build person is doing a bit more damage for the same stat investment. True, that's a valid point. But the cleric can do even MORE damage by just throwing Sunlight Blade/Darkmoon Blade onto his +15 backup weapon. That doesn't last forever, but it will definitely exceed the damage that any quality build can dish out for the duration. The duration is long enough to rip through most bosses, and long enough for a PvP duel (but not enough for an invasion, where the invader will just run away for a minute).


Returning to the subject of PvP: Tranquil Walk of Peace + WotG will crush any inexperienced player instantly, and even a PvP veteran who makes a single positioning mistake can get killed by it.

And Great Magic Barrier is a strong counter to the various sorcery/dark sorcery builds (or even to fellow clerics).


I'm not saying that faith builds are the best PvP builds or any such thing.

But I do think that Faith Builds have a lot of fun and powerful tools that you may enjoy as you start to use them.

And magic in general is wildly OP in PvE

[dcy665]

Originally posted by Melth:

... a reasonable response to the clueless among us ...

How is it there are so many clueless here?

I am amazed at the shear lack of ingenuity, intelligence, research, investigation, and just plain old playing and enjoying a game. A decade old game at that.

I play thief/rangers more often than not, from way back in D&D days. But, I have played a pyro here in PtDE, and DSR. Sorcerer, thief each got me through the game. But PvE is a magical paradise. It works, and limiting yourself to one spell to buff your weapon shows signs of cluelessness that is troubling. My simple solution: I carry a full array of Balder Side Swords, and Gargoyle Halberds. I have taken out the four kings with halberds, magic, and pyro while dodging or tanking. As long as I don't get rigid in my thinking the game is great fun, for me.

Last night gave me a surprise as my Divine weapons were hitting harder than my Enchanted. Because I'm focused on Faith for Sunlight Spear, which I have but have yet to use.

But they died, and I did not.