Time to hang it up?

[Doc_Simulac]

So you hear people complaining how they just can't beat smough and ornstein...
How they've tried 30 to 50 times and just can't seem to do it...

I've tried over 100 times...
If I had to guess it's probably approaching 150...(or more)
Should I realistically think about just hanging up my gloves and moving on from the souls series?

My Build (if I can even call it that since I'm incapable of understanding DS builds) is a light armor heavy weapon non magic non ranged knight.

Right now I'm basically running naked at level 59 with a +10 zweiwahtever with a black knight shield at +1 with chonk armor dudes ring and the poise one...

I don't want to follow advice that has me traversing the entire map again farming crap from typical DS enemies that when the RNG gods conspire against you, can take you down in 3 hits...

I don't want to use Solaire because he's either dead or I don't feel like fighting the giant sentinels that can once again...see above RNG comment (And I'm pretty sure I've used up all my humanity (see above comment about farming)(and yes I got to the point where taking the super sentinels down was a simple methodical affair)

Yes I always choose to fight Ornster last because I hope you get his armor and crap...
No interest in anything dropped by Smough...

Besides the comical times when both of them decide to be hyper aggressive and take me out in less than 3 shots...
I've just about become apathetic to fighting them...(yes even the exquisite DS rage has passed)
Taking out Smough is not even fun anymore..
Super Ornstein...lol...this guy(girl?) from spamming his lightning buttsmash reaching me while I stand about a meter away behind pillars to covering half the arena space in a second...yeah...the fun has long left the fight...

I'd like to see the rest of the game...hell...I'd like to one day play DS3...(I'm too numb to be afraid of what awaits further in DS and DS2...and 3...and BB...and seikiro?)

So now I hear I can stand behind a broken pillar at an exact angle and have Orns get stuck in a lighting toss spam while I chip away with arrows or bolts...both which i only have a handful of...And I've seen the damage that even dragon arrows to to him/her and I only have 40 of them...(as in they do no appreciable damage)

signed
Sigh...

[Mr. Oibyr]

I don't always use Solaire, but when I do...it's Dos Equis.

-summon Solaire
-fight the archer and giants
-banish solaire
-quit out
-continue
-resummon

There are many ways to wreck Bert and Ernie's apartment, I only find a challenge/twinking run is why I might need Solaire for them, anymore.

[Doc_Simulac]

Originally posted by Mr. Oibyr:

I don't always use Solaire, but when I do...it's Dos Equis.

-summon Solaire
-fight the archer and giants
-banish solaire
-quit out
-continue
-resummon

There are many ways to wreck Bert and Ernie's apartment, I only find a challenge/twinking run is why I might need Solaire for them, anymore.

I'm guessing you're being cryptic for swagg effect?
What does all that even mean or accomplish?

[Doc_Simulac]

Originally posted by The Great Brambino:

Your first mistake was trying to 1v1 Ornstein & Smough with a light armor build on your first playthrough.

Either summon Solaire, or look into wearing something else to tank some hits. Havel's armor is in Anor Londo if you haven't found it already. Alternatively if you really want to continue light rolling, upgrade your armor as much as you can. The blacksmith in Anor Londo sells titanite to do so.

Another thing you may want to consider is using a slightly faster weapon in this boss fight. Every second counts, and getting stuck in an UGS swinging animation can spell death. Consider using something like a broadsword/longsword or even an axe if speed seems to be a problem.

I have Havel's armor...
You mean like a reverse build of what I'm using...(heavy armor light weapon?)

The issue isn't really speed...
It's that Ornstein becomes 10X as obnoxious in super mode.

I can actually kill either one fairly easily...
It's just S Orns's behavior is extremely erratic in his favor...
Like I mentioned...
Spamming butt slam (I had him doing 15 times in a row once and onky stop because i ran far enough away for him to snap out of it.

His multi layered attacks...(like his stab the ground then shovel up one)

Never mind his whole stabby then electro one that can basically kill me in a single blow...

And that not even taking into account the camera spazing and glitching against walls and when i get stuck between his legs...all things that work in his favor...

I tried and used up all my humanity summoning solaire...
He usually dies very quickly because they both zero in on him and I still have to deal with S Orns alone regardless...

I've heard people say it's possible to beat this duo with no armor no level and using the stock broken undead sword...
Is this internet lies?
Or is this really possible?

[Mr. Oibyr]

Originally posted by Dr_Simulacrum:

What does all that even mean or accomplish?

Sorry, I forgot to explain how this gives you a fresh Solaire.

If he goes after Smo first; help him as fast as you can and use him as bait to attack during second phase. If he goes for Orn; quit out of the game, you'll be outside the fog. This way you only have to run back to resummon him(again) and maybe have not used an estus.

You could always have one of us do it for you, it took me 100+ tries my 1st time and that was with the "Summon Solaire 2x" trick EVERY single time.

[Omastar]

firstly NEVER GIVE UP, but this time when you die pay attention to each move and learn how to dodge it, second i can drop you ornstein's stuff so don't worry about who you kill first, third i can drop you humanities so don't worry about that, fourth NEVER GIVE UP, if you don't like some kind of challenge then yes, hang it up, but if you're interested in a challenge then keep trying, you'll get it, as i said before if you need any drops i can help you, in-fact if you're so sick of the fight i can drop you something that will make it hard for them to kill you at all :)

[Greig91]

If anything in this game takes you more than 10 tries, you're doing something so colossally wrong that you need to completely change your approach. This is a game that spits in the face of stubborn perseverance lol.

The zweihander is quite a good weapon for this fight as its 2-handed R2s are capable of stunning Smough (I think in a single hit at +10, give it a try). It's slow, but neither of these enemies are particularly fast so you shouldn't struggle to get hits in if you can avoid being tag teamed.

And at +10 you should be doing fairly decent damage to them with the zwei. So your problem is more likely how you're defending. Ideally you don't want to be trying to block these guys (meaning you should be using both hands on the zwei for the extra damage and stagger), as Smough hits like a truck and will deplete your stamina rapidly. Same applies to phase 2 Ornstein, and he has lightning to make matters worse. Dodging is the most effective way to deal with them, but if you're like most people who struggle with this fight then you've probably managed to blunder your way through thus far without really learning how to do that well lol. So that probably leaves poise tanking as your best bet, which is what The Great Bambino was suggesting I think.

Try to get your poise stat as high as possible whilst staying under 50% of your maximum encumbrance. Havel's Gauntlets have a very efficient poise:weight ratio so start there. The higher your Endurance stat is the easier this will be. If you've got Havel's Ring or Ring of Favour and Protection those will help too. In case you don't know, poise allows you resist hitstun (but not the damage from the hit) and perform actions even whilst being attacked (e.g. attacks of your own, rolls, and even healing). The reason I say stay under 50% is to keep your medium speed roll so that you can roll away from the electric butt stomp in phase 2 in an emergency. If you go over 50% you'll be a lot slower.

At the start of the fight what to do is try to position yourself so that there is a pillar (or the broken bottom of one) between you and Smough, then run away from him. This will cause him to get stuck behind the pillar briefly, meanwhile Ornstein will likely fly towards you. At this point if you run back to Smough you've got a small window to attack him before Ornstein gets back in the fight. But if your poise is high enough you can continue to attack Smough even whilst Ornstein is on you, just focus on avoiding Smough's hits (try to stagger him with your 2 handed R2s so he can't attack at all) and watch your health closely. Retreat as necessary, use the pillar trick to heal with relative safety.

If you do all that, you should be able to consistently kill Smough and reach phase 2 of the fight

For Ornsten phase 2, just sprint under his legs and hit him. The only attack he can hit you with when you're in between his legs is the butt stomp, so watch for him telegraphing that attack and sprint/roll away, then get back under him as quickly as possible.

As far as builds go it doesn't really matter. You can indeed beat the game at level 1 with a broken sword. The only thing that really cripples a build for newbies is not levelling Vitality, you wanna get that to 30 ASAP. But even without levelling Vitality it's doable, just a bit more painful.


Oh and if you add Solaire to all of that the fight should be fairly trivial.

[Mr. Oibyr]

go to 9:35 for some good Big Ornstein strategy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1y2Y5GRCcU

[astromaxx]

oh, that loong run back killed a not very fresh controller. took me forever too. have you tried thunder ring (?) at sens merchant? wooden shield is light and high lightning def. havel's legs, gargoyle helm. poise and lightning def. under big ornsteins legs is good spot. concentrate on watching the show and he telegraphs his moves. shield up then quickly 2 hand a couple of overheads and roll out. fire is good. good luck WOOOH!

[CB]

sounds like you've seen enough of the architecture of anor londo, even though it's really nice.

hit me back sometime and you'll have a dead pair of bosses, just say the word.

[Doc_Simulac]

I appreciate all your replies.
Thing is, running naked with the +10 Zwei +1 Black shield I can basically make it to Super Orns with 8 flasks...(enhanced) 90% of the time...
So As you can see I don't really need strategies for handling both of them unfairly tag teaming me...
The problem is Super Orn's...
The game takes the cheapest enemy (45 angle degree homing charges anyone?)
Then makes him giant and adds another characters attacks to him...

I don't really need any better equipment.
The Zwei can take out Smough in about 5 to 7 hits.
and Regular Orns in about the same...

The problem is Super Orns is basically killing me in a single hit...
So that means I literally have to beat him playing flawlessly...
Taking into account RNG, controller input lag and a camera that's dumber than a drunken monkey...

This fight has bored me of the game...why would a game developer do that?
The developer banked that enough people would be masochistic that the game would be a success regardless how many others were like...@#%c this game...

But I thing Greig is unto something..."This is a game that spits in the face of stubborn perseverance" and that's basically me in a nutshell...
So maybe this really isn't my kind of game?
Why would a game wan't to break someones "stubborn perseverance"?

Oh and I have no issues rolling...in fact that's what I was doing most of the game..
I had to because parry is impossible because this game suffers from horrible controller input lag...so I switched to blocking...But I know how to block effectively.
I rarely die from stamina lock...mostly from when the game thinks it's funny for both smough and ornstein to chain their attacks and stun lock me while my character is going through his get up animation frames.

So I guess now I have o learn how to play without lock on since the developers where incapable of programming a functional camera yet made sure to give the enemies every advantage like hitting you through solid walls...
because it's IMPOSSIBLE to fight between a large enemies legs with lock on active...

Signed...
...Sigh...

[Doc_Simulac]

Oh and I can't accept any kind of help from anyone...
My DS1 copy is stand alone bootleg (don't worry I bought DS2 DS3 BB the damn sales!!) I wasn't sure I would enjoy this type of game...and wouldn't you know it...

[Scuzz]

Originally posted by Dr_Simulacrum:

Originally posted by Mr. Oibyr:

I don't always use Solaire, but when I do...it's Dos Equis.

-summon Solaire
-fight the archer and giants
-banish solaire
-quit out
-continue
-resummon

There are many ways to wreck Bert and Ernie's apartment, I only find a challenge/twinking run is why I might need Solaire for them, anymore.

I'm guessing you're being cryptic for swagg effect?
What does all that even mean or accomplish?

I actually understood that. :)

For a light build you are swinging a heavy weapon. If you have got a Sword from the Silver Knights consider taking advantage of the blacksmith and leveling it up. It is quick and does decent damage.

Smough is the easier to kill second, but with Solaire you should get decent shot at Ornstein if you go that route.

[CB]

My DS1 copy is stand alone bootleg

so, uh, you pirated it? this takes a different tone, then. i'm glad you only get to see half the game.

[Awrsmth]

If it's bootleg then that may be why you're having issues with butt slam spams and stuff. The ai is probably broken. Get the real game.

[The Great Brambino]

Originally posted by CB:

My DS1 copy is stand alone bootleg

so, uh, you pirated it? this takes a different tone, then. i'm glad you only get to see half the game.

^ nvm, gtfo of this forum pirate