What the "scrub"-mentality is

[SimianSwing]

This is a really good article defining what the "scrub"-mentality is, as well as discussing some of the most used arguments by scrubs against actually playing games as they actually are.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win

[Rapax/希狐]

Nguyên văn bởi Harrison Ford:

Scrub = someone new and unskilled at something. It's not just a video game term. It originated as a sports term for someone who wasn't that skilled at their chosen sport.

The writer of the article is trying to turn it into something else. The "play to win" mentality has nothing to do with being a scrub. On the contrary, it is the furthest thing from being a scrub, because in order to win at the game you have to be good. Even finding exploits requires that you know what you are doing, so labeling every playstyle that you don't like as a "scrub" because they beat you is just saltiness.

Could you have misread it?

Last time I checked it the article was calling people "scrubs", who, regardless of their skill, limit their playstyle to things they deem fair and call victors out when they beat them using something they deem unfair.

Or did I misunderstand it?

[Call Sign: Raven]

Nguyên văn bởi _shiro96:

Nguyên văn bởi Harrison Ford:

Scrub = someone new and unskilled at something. It's not just a video game term. It originated as a sports term for someone who wasn't that skilled at their chosen sport.

The writer of the article is trying to turn it into something else. The "play to win" mentality has nothing to do with being a scrub. On the contrary, it is the furthest thing from being a scrub, because in order to win at the game you have to be good. Even finding exploits requires that you know what you are doing, so labeling every playstyle that you don't like as a "scrub" because they beat you is just saltiness.

Could you have misread it?

Last time I checked it the article was calling people "scrubs", who, regardless of their skill, limit their playstyle to things they deem fair and call victors out when they beat them using something they deem unfair.

Or did I misunderstand it?

Exactly. The author is making it into something that it is not.

[Apathy]

Nguyên văn bởi Harrison Ford:

Scrub = someone new and unskilled at something. It's not just a video game term. It originated as a sports term for someone who wasn't that skilled at their chosen sport.

The writer of the article is trying to turn it into something else. The "play to win" mentality has nothing to do with being a scrub. On the contrary, it is the furthest thing from being a scrub, because in order to win at the game you have to be good. Even finding exploits requires that you know what you are doing, so labeling every playstyle that you don't like as a "scrub" because they beat you is just saltiness.

Wrong. Scrub is an FGC term. It originates from how scrubs played games in the arcade. IE: it looked like they were scrubbing dishes when they mashed the ♥♥♥♥ out of the buttons on an arcade cab. It has zero to do with anything else. The term just started getting used by gamers in general for "bad player" when in reality it's a mentality shared by bad players. Please don't pretend you know about things you obviously don't. You don't see me in here trying to pretend I'm some Dark Souls PvP expert.

Also, Sirlin isn't just "some guy" in the FGC either. David Sirlin is what Mike Z imagines himself to be: a successful game dev who was once also a respected player maybe not a top player but he traveled and had a lot of respect in the scene.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sirlin
http://www.sirlin.net/

[Rapax/希狐]

Nguyên văn bởi Apathy:

Nguyên văn bởi Harrison Ford:

Scrub = someone new and unskilled at something. It's not just a video game term. It originated as a sports term for someone who wasn't that skilled at their chosen sport.

The writer of the article is trying to turn it into something else. The "play to win" mentality has nothing to do with being a scrub. On the contrary, it is the furthest thing from being a scrub, because in order to win at the game you have to be good. Even finding exploits requires that you know what you are doing, so labeling every playstyle that you don't like as a "scrub" because they beat you is just saltiness.

Wrong. Scrub is an FGC term. It originates from how scrubs played games in the arcade. IE: it looked like they were scrubbing dishes when they mashed the ♥♥♥♥ out of the buttons on an arcade cab. It has zero to do with anything else. The term just started getting used by gamers in general for "bad player" when in reality it's a mentality shared by bad players. Please don't pretend you know about things you obviously don't. You don't see me in here trying to pretend I'm some Dark Souls PvP expert.

Also, Sirlin isn't just "some guy" in the FGC either. David Sirlin is what Mike Z imagines himself to be: a successful game dev who was once also a respected player maybe not a top player but he traveled and had a lot of respect in the scene.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sirlin
http://www.sirlin.net/

well how does that supposed origin relate to the "mentality" described in the article at all?

[Apathy]

Nguyên văn bởi _shiro96:

Nguyên văn bởi Apathy:

Wrong. Scrub is an FGC term. It originates from how scrubs played games in the arcade. IE: it looked like they were scrubbing dishes when they mashed the ♥♥♥♥ out of the buttons on an arcade cab. It has zero to do with anything else. The term just started getting used by gamers in general for "bad player" when in reality it's a mentality shared by bad players. Please don't pretend you know about things you obviously don't. You don't see me in here trying to pretend I'm some Dark Souls PvP expert.

Also, Sirlin isn't just "some guy" in the FGC either. David Sirlin is what Mike Z imagines himself to be: a successful game dev who was once also a respected player maybe not a top player but he traveled and had a lot of respect in the scene.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sirlin
http://www.sirlin.net/

well how does that supposed origin relate to the "mentality" described in the article at all?

Do people who play fighting games like they're washing dishes strike you as players who take losses gracefully or do they strike you as the type of players to make excuses about how cheap the other player was?

What about Dark Souls. Hell, what about games in general. Do you think the "I only play for fun" crowd practice? Do you think they go "yeah I lost this match because of A while my opponent did B" or do you think they go "NERF BACKSTABS AND OTHER MECHANICS I CAN'T BEAT IN THIS NEARLY DECADE OLD GAME"

[Rapax/希狐]

Nguyên văn bởi Apathy:

Nguyên văn bởi _shiro96:

well how does that supposed origin relate to the "mentality" described in the article at all?

Do people who play fighting games like they're washing dishes strike you as players who take losses gracefully or do they strike you as the type of players to make excuses about how cheap the other player was?

What about Dark Souls. Hell, what about games in general. Do you think the "I only play for fun" crowd practice? Do you think they go "yeah I lost this match because of A while my opponent did B" or do you think they go "NERF BACKSTABS AND OTHER MECHANICS I CAN'T BEAT IN THIS NEARLY DECADE OLD GAME"

I dunno how someone playing a fighting game can look like wahsing dishes, but it sounds like mashing at random. And that's not players who think the are doing great but being cheated. That's just people who have no clue.

[Apathy]

Nguyên văn bởi _shiro96:

Nguyên văn bởi Apathy:

Do people who play fighting games like they're washing dishes strike you as players who take losses gracefully or do they strike you as the type of players to make excuses about how cheap the other player was?

What about Dark Souls. Hell, what about games in general. Do you think the "I only play for fun" crowd practice? Do you think they go "yeah I lost this match because of A while my opponent did B" or do you think they go "NERF BACKSTABS AND OTHER MECHANICS I CAN'T BEAT IN THIS NEARLY DECADE OLD GAME"

I dunno how someone playing a fighting game can look like wahsing dishes, but it sounds like mashing at random. And that's not players who think the are doing great but being cheated. That's just people who have no clue.

Congrats you learned what a scrub is today. As for "I don't know how they can look like they're washing dishes while mashing"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNsst2Nd6BM

[Rapax/希狐]

Nguyên văn bởi Apathy:

Nguyên văn bởi _shiro96:

I dunno how someone playing a fighting game can look like wahsing dishes, but it sounds like mashing at random. And that's not players who think the are doing great but being cheated. That's just people who have no clue.

Congrats you learned what a scrub is today. As for "I don't know how they can look like they're washing dishes while mashing"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNsst2Nd6BM

Yeah no. If this is the origin of "scrub". as far as I can see this is not such a bad loser in that sense. He sure didn't look happy, though.

did he move like that because he was trapped in a stunlock or because he just didn't know what he was doing? As far as I can see he mashes like that even in the neutral, so probably the latter.

In that case this has nothing to do with what the article is talking about at all.

What would be closest to this in terms of Dark Souls players would be someone who in a fight just mashes R1 until he dies or Alf-F4s,

[Apathy]

Nguyên văn bởi _shiro96:

Nguyên văn bởi Apathy:

Congrats you learned what a scrub is today. As for "I don't know how they can look like they're washing dishes while mashing"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNsst2Nd6BM

Yeah no. If this is the origin of "scrub". as far as I can see this is not such a bad loser in that sense. He sure didn't look happy, though.

did he move like that because he was trapped in a stunlock or because he just didn't know what he was doing? As far as I can see he mashes like that even in the neutral, so probably the latter.

In that case this has nothing to do with what the article is talking about at all.

What would be closest to this in terms of Dark Souls players would be someone who in a fight just mashes R1 until he dies or Alf-F4s,

Are you dense or just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with me? You asked what scrubbing a stick looks like. That's what a video shows. Daigo even pantomimes it after it happens. Good ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ God. I also already told you that it's about the mentality and not the mashing. The name comes from the mashing. It is not what a scrub is. Your reading comprehension is trash. I swear to God I hope you're some foreigner who speaks English as a second language. There's absolutely no excuse for this language barrier otherwise.

[Rapax/希狐]

Nguyên văn bởi Apathy:

Nguyên văn bởi _shiro96:

Yeah no. If this is the origin of "scrub". as far as I can see this is not such a bad loser in that sense. He sure didn't look happy, though.

did he move like that because he was trapped in a stunlock or because he just didn't know what he was doing? As far as I can see he mashes like that even in the neutral, so probably the latter.

In that case this has nothing to do with what the article is talking about at all.

What would be closest to this in terms of Dark Souls players would be someone who in a fight just mashes R1 until he dies or Alf-F4s,

Are you dense or just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with me? You asked what scrubbing a stick looks like. That's what a video shows. Daigo even pantomimes it after it happens. Good ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ God. I also already told you that it's about the mentality and not the mashing. The name comes from the mashing. It is not what a scrub is. Your reading comprehension is trash. I swear to God I hope you're some foreigner who speaks English as a second language. There's absolutely no excuse for this language barrier otherwise.

I have no idea why you must be so childish about this. I would be really ashamed of such a ridiculous outburst.

point is yeah. He is scrubbing alright. And what does that have to do with anything, other than explain why bad players are sometimes called "scrubs"? It certainly doesn't relate to the "mentality" you are going on about.

[Apathy]

You flat out told me the word scrub had nothing to do with someone scrubbing a stick, and I told you that's how the term was named. It is not the term's definition though. Nor is a scrub a bad player. Scrub is exactly what Sirlin described it as. This thread is filled with them. If the term offends you, congratulations you might have what it takes to stop being a scrub.

For example, Shiro, you are a scrub. You've done nothing but rant for dozens of posts about "fairness", "honor", and "originality" in PVP where none of these things are required by the game. The game doesn't make me let you bow, it doesn't make you not heal, doesn't require me to cosplay in unviable armor and weapons, etc. These are all self imposed rules you play by. Which is great you want to do that go ahead. But you and people like you expect everyone to play by the same stupid rules you made up that aren't in the game, and when you don't you insult them or act like you're somehow superior. While this might sound hypocritical to say, it's not because outside of using cheat engine or intentionally lagging nothing is cheap or something I feel shouldn't be allowed in game. You want to glitch your moveset and tumblebuff or whatever else? Cool go ahead.

You know what? I'll go one further. The DS2 PVPers who do Skornament* are also scrubs in my opinion because they want to go Smash Brothers to somehow make the fabled viable DS2 PVP viable. Skornament rules to me are no different than what you're doing. Making up a bunch of stupid rules because you don't like the dominant meta and want to force the game to be some bland experience. The only player I know that plays Skornament that I respect is Summer because he also does real PVP. You can include anyone else who has incredibly stupid house rules they expect others to abide by.

* https://pastebin.com/WZkEzTcm

[Rapax/希狐]

I wanted to see what a scrubbing arcade player looks like. Thanks.

You pretend like this was the official definition of a scrub, but it's not related to the origin of the term at all which confuses me.

Sometimes things in a video game are so ♥♥♥♥ that they need a ban for the competitive scene to stay enjoyable. Not really the case for Dark Souls. Never had an official tournament scene afaik. Otherwise I think backstabs would be among the first things to get at least partially restricted. Can't know that of course. Doesn't matter either.

My real point is that "scrub" is intended as an insult and rather than attempt to help players shake it off, this thread encourages the labelling, which I find wrong.

Beyond that I think just like supposed scrubs are making it easy for themselves, so are the people using the term, because from that article they could say "you're just a scrub" to anything no matter what. That's just gross.

And I shall refuse to talk to you if you throw another fit like that.

[Apathy]

Online games aren't for hyper sensitive crybabies. I'm not sorry. Scrub is an insult for a reason. You are not supposed to want to be a scrub or find pride in it. You are supposed to get the motivation needed to git gud and stop being a scrub.

[Call Sign: Raven]

Nguyên văn bởi Apathy:

Online games aren't for hyper sensitive crybabies. I'm not sorry. Scrub is an insult for a reason. You are not supposed to want to be a scrub or find pride in it. You are supposed to get the motivation needed to git gud and stop being a scrub.

I wish I was a pro, like you.

And, oh wait! I think I know you, but you changed your avatar. You just act contrarian for the sake of argument, without really having anything to say! Now I see why the thread is somewhat derailing. I'll do good to ignore your further comments.


That being said, the author is totally full of himself. It's funny to me that the only place where people will trash each other needlessly is in online gaming. At least in sports there's some potential for a payback if someone crosses the line with their trash talk, so people are a little less abrasive in my experience. Yet, nobody actually encourages new players in online play. They just throw around petty insults like "scrub" and such and revel in the feeling of beating up a newbie.

But you know what? The true scrubs are the top-tier players that demolish noobs. The true scrubs are the ones that fail to encourage a new player, or *gasp* even go easy on them. In the end, nobody respects online gamers that are hateful or insulting, so there's no need for it.

[Apathy]

I'm not a pro. I just have a good mindset for self improvement. The first step to getting good is admitting your faults. You need to know what to work on. Blaming what your opponent does for your loss is scrubby. You lost, so that means at some point you did something wrong. It's not impossible to beat a bad player in a meta build and you people are acting like it. Half the builds being complained about are meme or griefing builds and not actual meta builds anyway.

If you're complaining about oneshot builds then perhaps learn to recognize them and avoid the oneshot.