Grid-Based Battles

[Valravn Games]

Now that grid-based battles are an option in the main game version, I've morphed the beta thread into a discussion/feedback thread. I think it makes sense to keep the thread rather than create a new one, as there is so much good discussion here and it makes sense to the continuity.

The grid-based mode still has tons of room for improvement, but has (or will soon, depending on perspective) overtaken the classic mode in functionality. At some point I expect the grid-based mode will become the default setting - and the classic mode will be the optional mode. The criteria for when this happens is tied to usability as well as functionality.

There are no plans to retire the classic mode. I have given some thought to replace it with a re-skinned version of the new system, that maintains the feel and functionality of the classic mode. That may happen, if classic-mode players are positive about it and it makes sense development-wise. There is no rush to reach such a point. Focus is on improving the grid-based mode so that it actually becomes a relevant discussion.

Guide to Grid-Based Battles:

• You are blue and deploy on the left-hand side of the battlefield.
  
• Click units to select them. Highlight shows where you can move and/or deploy.
  
• Units can be grouped into Formations and given collective orders.
  
• You can order unit and formations rather than micro-managing their movement. Right-click units to do order them. Formations are ordered using a button.
  
• Add units to the currently selected formation with shift-click - during deployment.
  
• Multi-select your units with shift-click - after deployment.
  
• Right-click enemy units to select them as melee and/or ranged target for the selected unit(s).
  
• Units can't move out of melee, unless they have Skirmish or Blink abilities.
  
• Units can only manually be moved one tile at a time if an enemy is within max distance (still has same move allowance).
  
• To use Magic open the panel with the runestone.
  
• A config panel allows you to change the number of battle turns processed per 'Next' click. You can also change the playback speed of turn resolution.
  
• If a side has more units than there is room for in the deployment zone, some will be placed in reserve and arrive during the battle.
  
• During deployment you can assign units as reserves. You can do this even if your army fits into the deployment zone.
  
• The Army Window now has a button to setup default deployment and orders. It hasn't been given the new snazzy Formation UI, so you have to use buttons for formation assignment per unit.

A very basic battle guide: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2503698124

[Vieux Chat]

Wow ! Huge step forward !
It really looks like a true battle. I love the graphical representation. Now with an easier way to add formations, give orders, more orders etc. the battle system will be a blast !

[Valravn Games]

I've uploaded a new build with bug fixes and some UI improvements. You can manage reserves during deployment now. There is also a detailed effect summary when assigning characters to units, including the combat effects of the character and what traits are affecting those.

The 'global retreat' button is also back.

[dasara III]

Looking really good (1.0.2.8 beta), great work cater for all styles here, much appreciated.

I know its a work in progress but here are my observations (in a game not the custom battle):
Bug:
When you complete a battle the the summary of the results are 0 kills and originally unit numbers, even though the unit numbers have changed in the game and on the map. You also get the "battle results" message to read and this also has 0 kills and original unit numbers as well (and not the battle results of kills and post battle unit numbers).

Characters:
Yes I can add characters and you have all the details for doing so and have the small icon on the unit, which is great. But it would be nice to see on the character selection screen if they are already allocated to another unit. Also, once the battle has started you have the "character joined" in green writing in the unit description section (right side of screen), would be good if mouse-over showed the effects of having that character joined or else have those details (character effects) on the unit description all the time.

Idea:
Changing unit orders, yes you have it working but I find my self right-clicking on the unit to change an order, that might be just me, but having the unit orders as an option for right click would be intuitive and quick (not sure how complicated to code thought)

[Valravn Games]

Thanks for the bug report and feedback.

Especially good idea with the context-menu for orders. I've been annoyed myself that it's too cumbersome. I considered adding action button for each order, but your suggestion is more user-friendly I think.

[dasara III]

Just playing around with some custom battles (beta) and I notice as the turn is being carried out you get the Green (dealt) and Red (suffered) hits and kills. But when the battle turn is over and you get to mouse over the results will be just white writing with no Green or Red to indicate good or bad from that unit perspective.

[Valravn Games]

Originally posted by dasara III:

Just playing around with some custom battles (beta) and I notice as the turn is being carried out you get the Green (dealt) and Red (suffered) hits and kills. But when the battle turn is over and you get to mouse over the results its will white writing with now Green or Red to indicate good or bad from that unit perspective.

That sounds like a bug - and if there is some explanation, that fact you're wondering about this, would indicate a UI issue. Thanks for the bug report. I will take a look.

[rubish 1]

could you add the ability to double click a unit and it select all of the same unit type? so itll be easier giving orders, also can you make it so that armies will remember the formations that you put their units in?

[Valravn Games]

Originally posted by rubish 1:

could you add the ability to double click a unit and it select all of the same unit type? so itll be easier giving orders, also can you make it so that armies will remember the formations that you put their units in?

You can save the formation from the Army window, but it's a great idea to allow doing so from battles as well. I'll try to get it into the next patch, as it's relatively small task with great value. Thanks for the suggestion! I'll put in the double-click at the same time - probably with a priority of 1. Select Formation (if unit has one), 2. Select all of same type (if unit has no formation).

[DistantFluxSA]

I recently re-installed and give this a try, and I really like how grid-based battles make all the research and upgrade decisions more meaningful, now that I can see their actual effects! :)

[Valravn Games]

Originally posted by Roccandil:

I recently re-installed and give this a try, and I really like how grid-based battles make all the research and upgrade decisions more meaningful, now that I can see their actual effects! :)

Happy to hear that. I still have many things I'd like to add to the grid-based mode - most notably terrain/structures, so that you can have fortress assaults and more tactics from varied terrain. The grid mode has a code base which is much easier to work with when it comes to improvements/additions, but I sadly haven't had much time to actually take advantage of that yet. But I look forward to it very much.

[Godwin]

Was extremely happy seeing this.. just now got around to playing with it.

It's confusing.. The part that's confusing is that I cannot select a unit and tell it to attack an enemy. This would really make this mode absolutely awesome.

For example select my Arcanosaurians, see their breath attack range, move into range and do a breath attack. Or with my archers see their attack range (apparently it isn't the yellow.. for some reason? Or I missed something), or just with my orc maceguard.. Just get into melee and club away.

But as it is, it's very confusing, especially at first.. The enemy could shoot at me while they had 250 range on their regular Bow, and my Elven Longbow with 375 range wasn't in range yet? And the ONLY way to notice that was setting 'move into range' and letting the game move my archers.

So, yeah, would LOVE to also have the ability to select the attack I want and execute it, then another attack the unit may have and use that, etc. Real tactical combat.

It's such a great game, this, thanks :)

[Godwin]

And it would also be good if your ranged units with bows can fire over your own troops, at the very least when directly behind them, and especially for bows and such. I can imagine for straightline bolts of some kind that that's not realistic.

But tbh, this is of way lesser importance than being able to execute the attacks yourself.

[SpiralRazor]

Originally posted by Godwin:

Was extremely happy seeing this.. just now got around to playing with it.

It's confusing.. The part that's confusing is that I cannot select a unit and tell it to attack an enemy. This would really make this mode absolutely awesome.

For example select my Arcanosaurians, see their breath attack range, move into range and do a breath attack. Or with my archers see their attack range (apparently it isn't the yellow.. for some reason? Or I missed something), or just with my orc maceguard.. Just get into melee and club away.

But as it is, it's very confusing, especially at first.. The enemy could shoot at me while they had 250 range on their regular Bow, and my Elven Longbow with 375 range wasn't in range yet? And the ONLY way to notice that was setting 'move into range' and letting the game move my archers.

So, yeah, would LOVE to also have the ability to select the attack I want and execute it, then another attack the unit may have and use that, etc. Real tactical combat.

It's such a great game, this, thanks :)

you can set your own targets for each round, but the combat is resolved simultaneously

[Godwin]

Originally posted by Godwin:

Was extremely happy seeing this.. just now got around to playing with it.

It's confusing.. The part that's confusing is that I cannot select a unit and tell it to attack an enemy. This would really make this mode absolutely awesome.

For example select my Arcanosaurians, see their breath attack range, move into range and do a breath attack. Or with my archers see their attack range (apparently it isn't the yellow.. for some reason? Or I missed something), or just with my orc maceguard.. Just get into melee and club away.

But as it is, it's very confusing, especially at first.. The enemy could shoot at me while they had 250 range on their regular Bow, and my Elven Longbow with 375 range wasn't in range yet? And the ONLY way to notice that was setting 'move into range' and letting the game move my archers.

So, yeah, would LOVE to also have the ability to select the attack I want and execute it, then another attack the unit may have and use that, etc. Real tactical combat.

It's such a great game, this, thanks :)

It would still be great and very useful so you know what's happening (putting combat on slow also helps.. dunno why that's not the default), but I also have to say I'm now getting used to it and it's not thát important to me anymore. Just to be fair.
It's not as big a deal as I thought, but, I'd still really like it, and it would really help the learning curve too.

[Valravn Games]

Originally posted by Godwin:

Originally posted by Godwin:

Was extremely happy seeing this.. just now got around to playing with it.

It's confusing.. The part that's confusing is that I cannot select a unit and tell it to attack an enemy. This would really make this mode absolutely awesome.

For example select my Arcanosaurians, see their breath attack range, move into range and do a breath attack. Or with my archers see their attack range (apparently it isn't the yellow.. for some reason? Or I missed something), or just with my orc maceguard.. Just get into melee and club away.

But as it is, it's very confusing, especially at first.. The enemy could shoot at me while they had 250 range on their regular Bow, and my Elven Longbow with 375 range wasn't in range yet? And the ONLY way to notice that was setting 'move into range' and letting the game move my archers.

So, yeah, would LOVE to also have the ability to select the attack I want and execute it, then another attack the unit may have and use that, etc. Real tactical combat.

It's such a great game, this, thanks :)

It would still be great and very useful so you know what's happening (putting combat on slow also helps.. dunno why that's not the default), but I also have to say I'm now getting used to it and it's not thát important to me anymore. Just to be fair.
It's not as big a deal as I thought, but, I'd still really like it, and it would really help the learning curve too.

Yes, it's a relatively common request to have 'I-go-you-go', option to pick melee targets (when multiple are available) and/or direct targeting which is easier to use.