Race: Human option for wizard

[gompo]

Seems like all races have a option to start as except for humans.

Is this by design for a reason?

[Valravn Games]

Originally posted by gompo:

Seems like all races have a option to start as except for humans.

Is this by design for a reason?

Not really - Humans are so default it didn't occur to me. I will add it now.

[sir Evans]

Originally posted by Valravn Games:

Humans are so default it didn't occur to me

Sounds like a t-shirt logo or something :)

[eddieballgame]

Yes, I just assumed (hate that word) all wizards were human unless selected otherwise.

[jephrey64]

Originally posted by eddieballgame:

Yes, I just assumed (hate that word) all wizards were human unless selected otherwise.

So did I. I don't even know if it's an assumption.

If you add a human start option and the player doesn't select it, what race is the wizard then? For this reason I would vote against adding it. Or maybe you were thinking of having human selected automatically and making it mandatory, unless another race is selected.

[Valravn Games]

I guess for all the races it's perfectly fine to assume (sorry), pretend or role-play that the Wizard of the race in question even without the racial trait.

The racial trait makes sure that starting Followers are assigned mostly or entirely from the race/culture in question and (next patch) also makes them a larger part of the pool of mercs/followers/workers - and that there are nearby cities of that race/culture.

So the Human trait is a way to avoid getting a motley gang of Minotaurs, Gnomes and Scorpionfolk as starting minions, if that's not your thing.

The 'generic' Wizard is a considered a powerful being of whatever origin the player prefers - with ability to have minions freely (within alignment limits). The Human trait is really just a flavor-choice that slightly modifies the starting situation.

[L-laine]

I've heard mentions of their being vampires but I've yet to see one and I don't see a vampire racial trait in the wizard creation screen as well. So do they exist?

[Valravn Games]

Originally posted by L-laine:

I've heard mentions of their being vampires but I've yet to see one and I don't see a vampire racial trait in the wizard creation screen as well. So do they exist?

Vampire characters exist. The 'Undead' Wizard isn't marked as having a particular sub-type - although the built-in template is named 'Lich'.

You could make a custom template with Undead and Necromancy/Dark/Blood masteries - and name it Vampire Archmage or similar.

Come to think of it, Undead wizards with Blood mastery should have a higher chance of getting Vampire followers. I've made a note to add it when I have a spare moment not working on a more important task.

There are two Vampire follower types: Noble and Youngblood. There are a couple of Vampire unit types, who all share the ability to heal from dealing damage during battles.

[Althaea]

Personally I prefer to play "Vampire" Wizards rather than "Lich" Wizards, even if that's purely a make-believe distinction right now.

Conquering and ruling cities rather than just tearing them down and turning everyone into zombies feels much more like something a vampire would do rather than a lich, after all.

Undeath doesn't have to be unsustainable!

[sir Evans]

Originally posted by Althaea:

Personally I prefer to play "Vampire" Wizards rather than "Lich" Wizards, even if that's purely a make-believe distinction right now.

Conquering and ruling cities rather than just tearing them down and turning everyone into zombies feels much more like something a vampire would do rather than a lich, after all.

Undeath doesn't have to be unsustainable!

Zombies and skeletons don't bread.
As a necromancy lich, you need living subjects to replenish your armies eventually.
Human Resource Management office is vital for your success :)

[Valravn Games]

Indeed, I very much want to make it up to the player if they want to play an Undead Wizard one way or the other.

Incidentally your living troops actually sometimes suffer desertion losses if they are part of an army being reinforced by raised troops after the battle. The game just doesn't communicate this clearly right now - neither the number of deserters and why they resented the necromancy being done. Cultural factors and wizard traits factor into this, with the armies of a non-Undead Wizard having a lower tolerance, for example.

[gompo]

Originally posted by Valravn Games:

I guess for all the races it's perfectly fine to assume (sorry), pretend or role-play that the Wizard of the race in question even without the racial trait.

The racial trait makes sure that starting Followers are assigned mostly or entirely from the race/culture in question and (next patch) also makes them a larger part of the pool of mercs/followers/workers - and that there are nearby cities of that race/culture.

So the Human trait is a way to avoid getting a motley gang of Minotaurs, Gnomes and Scorpionfolk as starting minions, if that's not your thing.

The 'generic' Wizard is a considered a powerful being of whatever origin the player prefers - with ability to have minions freely (within alignment limits). The Human trait is really just a flavor-choice that slightly modifies the starting situation.

Yeah i'm doing a Light/Order Paladin style Class, and i'd like to have them be Human Paladins. Unfortunately i sometimes roll a motley crue of Gnomes or Good Alignment Ogres which kind of ruins the idea of my Paladin Order personally.

[Mulzaro]

Originally posted by gompo:

Originally posted by Valravn Games:

I guess for all the races it's perfectly fine to assume (sorry), pretend or role-play that the Wizard of the race in question even without the racial trait.

The racial trait makes sure that starting Followers are assigned mostly or entirely from the race/culture in question and (next patch) also makes them a larger part of the pool of mercs/followers/workers - and that there are nearby cities of that race/culture.

So the Human trait is a way to avoid getting a motley gang of Minotaurs, Gnomes and Scorpionfolk as starting minions, if that's not your thing.

The 'generic' Wizard is a considered a powerful being of whatever origin the player prefers - with ability to have minions freely (within alignment limits). The Human trait is really just a flavor-choice that slightly modifies the starting situation.

Yeah i'm doing a Light/Order Paladin style Class, and i'd like to have them be Human Paladins. Unfortunately i sometimes roll a motley crue of Gnomes or Good Alignment Ogres which kind of ruins the idea of my Paladin Order personally.

Me can do good too!

-Orge of the fistr order

[gompo]

Originally posted by Mulzaro:

Originally posted by gompo:

Yeah i'm doing a Light/Order Paladin style Class, and i'd like to have them be Human Paladins. Unfortunately i sometimes roll a motley crue of Gnomes or Good Alignment Ogres which kind of ruins the idea of my Paladin Order personally.

Me can do good too!

-Orge of the fistr order

you sir, have changed my mind

[Althaea]

Revisiting this a bit: early on in development, a "Player Nearby Culture Override" was added to the game settings menu as a makeshift solution for players who wanted to play around with a particular race. This still exists and includes Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnolls, Orcs, Goblins and Ogres as options. It feels a bit disjointed that it coexists with the new Traits (and the option doesn't matter for Warlords).

Maybe the setting should be removed at this point?

Of the options in the game settings, you can't currently start with Gnolls or Ogres using a trait, but maybe that can be added. (Unless Ogres are considered too strong for a regular starting option - doubling HP is surprisingly potent.)

[Valravn Games]

Originally posted by Althaea:

Revisiting this a bit: early on in development, a "Player Nearby Culture Override" was added to the game settings menu as a makeshift solution for players who wanted to play around with a particular race. This still exists and includes Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnolls, Orcs, Goblins and Ogres as options. It feels a bit disjointed that it coexists with the new Traits (and the option doesn't matter for Warlords).

Maybe the setting should be removed at this point?

Of the options in the game settings, you can't currently start with Gnolls or Ogres using a trait, but maybe that can be added. (Unless Ogres are considered too strong for a regular starting option - doubling HP is surprisingly potent.)

Yes, I have considered this too. I'd like to expand World Generation options further - and as part of that it could make sense to have a similar option to 'force create' one or more cultures/races, but I agree that at this time it's a bit weird and confusing having this option.

The reason I haven't removed it, is that it doesn't really hurt giving players the options to use it as it is. But if I need some UI space and don't have the time to rework the whole panel, it is first in line to get ditched.

If Ogres get added as a trait it should probably cost a point or two. I'm also worried it would add some confusion to the Ogre Magi, who is an Oni and not an Ogre. Perhaps I should just add an Oni trait.

Gnolls are a bit on hold until I have portraits for them (although the next patch will start using the 'wolfman' portrait, as it is better than using human portraits). I'd like them to be more common, but not with the current portrait support.