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Discussions Rules and Guidelines
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VAC is not good, it falls well short of other contemporaries. I might be old, but I remember when Activision removed dedicated servers from Modern Warfare 2, told the players "VAC matchmaking will handle everything" and the game went on to be a hackers' paradise.
That said, VAC is still exponentially better than Gameguard, which is essentially the anticheat equivalent of installing "free antivirus" from page 50 of google.
Which is why VAC is perfect. Easy to implement. Better than GG and less risk to the player.
I agree a 100%. For these reasons I have a VAC and/or server side sanity check AC solution included as a potential solution recommendation for Arrowhead in my Gameguard Issues and Problems Megathread.
You can literally search in the Helldivers Steam forums and see people complain about VAC being bad.
But of course, all the experts here, who don't even own the game, know better.
There are also some good breakdowns of why it's not thay good say here
https://www.reddit.com/r/VACsucks/s/3YGb66px3D
And part of the process requires manual input from devs, which means they have to allocate staff to VAC efforts to keep their game secure. Which may be a factor in why they didn't choose it twice.
So yeah, some may prefer it but it wouldn't lessen cheaters that's for sure. But AC systems are like locks, they keep honest people honest.
The difference between lobbies protected by FACEIT and regular ones with VAC is night and day. Has been like that for years, still is the case in CS2.
The cheaters don't care... but the Linux players are left in the dust and also people who has a Steamdeck.
No one said, that VAC is the perfect solution... but VAC is still doing his job, at least if the developer upgrade it regularly (i guess).
I think so because didn't saw a single cheater in Deep Rock Galactic yet which has VAC support and i have above 300 hours playtime there.
And i also not saw a cheater in HD1 which i played 50hours.
Ah yes credibility being questioned on anti-cheat software because one does not own the game. I am a network security analyst by day. No im not an expert on the topic by any means. But I do know in terms of consumer security VAC is much safer and works more effectively than GG. Ill take your word for VAC not working for helldivers but neither is GG. Check the cheating complaints. Ill even match your energy if this helps... But of course, all the experts here, who don't even understand basic security, know better.
Also, the reason why VAC is being recommended is for the ease of implementation and security client side. That being said instead of whining, offer a better solution. We already established GG is bad, and you are saying VAC is bad... So create a solution instead of being a part of the problem.
More effective in what terms? Based on what numbers?
No one is saying GameGuard keeps all cheaters away. Not even Vanguard can do that, and that one is by far the most advanced anti-cheat in the industry, by quite a reach.
That said, I have almost 500 hours in the game, legit have not encountered a single cheater. Doesn't mean there was never one in my lobby, but if they were cheating somehow, it was impossible for me to notice.
To be fair, I don't join lobbies with players that have Cyrillic or Chinese characters in their names, but that's it.
I'm not whining, I was simply pointing out that the devs already tried VAC and it didn't get the job done. And I'm sure they have more insight into why they decided against it for Helldivers 2 than some of the people here who for some odd reason think they know better than the people working on the game.
Also no matter the suggested solution, there will always be people who complain.
For example, I'm fine with GG being replaced by EAC, since I already own a bunch of games that use EAC anyway. But there's zero doubt that people would continue to complain with EAC as well.
This is a little game of Cat and mouse almost a year old, any idea pitching ended awhile ago lol
Reality is even full server side like MMOs cheaters still exist, the more popular a game the more it'll attract. There is no perfect solution even "server side checks" wouldn't fully stop cheating. It also I guess depends on what you consider "cheating" lol
So from the prospect of cheaters it's hard to say one is more effective, I can't prove VAC is any more effective then GG or vice versa, I'm not sure anyone can haha
From a cost perspective it would be a hard comparison, most AC don't list that. 1 can assume VAC is free but you would have to have an employee set to do the manual parts of it, which means paying someone year round which is likely more money then GG 30k/year listed on their website.
From a security perspective you could consider VAC the more secure as its in user space over kernel, but that does mean it's less effective at catching anything in a space below it. So it would lead to believe the effectiveness of it is likely lower, but the threat of a VAC ban is likely enough a deterant as its a public shame marker even on private profiles rofl but it doesn't stop those who simply don't care...
Beyond all of that, one of their big things was going to be PSN linking which got canceled, this was said to be tied to all that and Sony being able to hand out swift bans as it's easier to ban a PSN account then it is steam ones. Ultimately that would be your ideal solution, reimplementing the PSN linking so they can do that, and as they haven't removed all the regions they locked out regardless of the linking they might as well reimplement it so they can move forward with that. Cuz we have already failed on the 1 reason it was opposed...
However people hated the idea of a PSN link, so it won't matter people will be displeased no matter what you do, your choice or lack thereof of choice will drive away a few customers, so who do you cater to? The small handful that are displeased or the current player base who is fine with it? Tough call on the devs part.
But I have bin in the general, there is a few cheater complaints but it isn't super bad, it's certainly not GTA bad lol so either people don't wanna cheat (cuz it's allegedly so ineffective) or it's effective enough to prevent major issues and most people won't put in the effort.
So a short summery, I think the most effective but also likely most controversial option is to reimplemennt PSN linking. Which I hate the idea of but as a Pure stop the cheaters move, it's probably the best overall choice.
Well you can take it out of context all you want and in bad faith like you always do imo but you forget I also said
outside of the summery version.
Ideal solutions, ideal worlds, are not reality. If the pure goal is to "stop cheaters" the most ideal solution is to have it so they can use Sony and their resources to do these bans and preventative measures.
But as you'll see I also said "Which I hate the idea of" and mentioned it would drive away customers
But I imagine that doesn't matter to you, you only wanna be right. To me even if I dislike something I can envision it's purpose, and the potential use of it. Sure I don't like the PSN link, I don't think we should have to sign up to 3rd party crap to play games.
You have to consider different perspectives which I did in the post you quote. I don't see a single solution being more effective at the pure goal of "stopping cheaters" then giving that over to the vast resources Sony has.
If we further consider player count in this arguement, PSN is of course at least from backlash we have seen one of the worst options. But why don't you take the other post as a point of advice lol I offered my thoughts so you do the same.
Or would you rather just do like we do? I'm down for both lol
If by advanced you mean "most invasive", which is the only thing Vanguard excels at and it also equally alienated a significant number of players when it was forced upon League after 14 years of operation.
Well advanced isn't always a good thing lol but it's still pretty advanced in terms of AC systems. Way to much for my liking I heard some crazy concerns about it. But I don't play league or valorant so It was of no concern to me.
One concern I would have is it's "always on" but not really, but also really it is practice rofl cuz it sits in the background silently menacingly xD
https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-vanguard-x-lol/
But the link is there for you to read how much they put into it, it is in fact quite advanced, wether or not that is "good" is another question.
But by their own admission they had am approved issue and said thay roughly 1 in 15 games had scripters or bots in them.
I do however appreciate they offered some clarity with such an extensive post though. But it is a bit much all to prevent cheaters, however LoL while I haven't played it is like a super big game, even the tournaments right? Got some real stakes for some people.