Anti Material Rifle idea

[Artimise Flare]

So I mentioned this in my original thread, but wanted to discuss it here in more detail.

The AMR appears to do well in early game difficulties, however, from what I gathered from other players who play at higher difficulties, it suffers from power creep when compared to the other options that become available.

Enemies become tougher, the quantity of these tougher enemis grow, and the weapons inability to deal with some of the most dangerous threats makes it a liability to the squad in some people's eyes instead of being an asset

So I was wondering, what if we gave the AMR the capability to call in specific stratagems (such as precision air strikes or orbital bombardments) while they are ADS, or perhaps, while the player is marking a target it improves the accuracy of orbital bombardments as the player provides a laser designation on the enemy mobs for the ship to zero in on? (Pair it with a backpack radio or designator tool perhaps. Maybe even having the laser designator can improve the SPEARS lock on time/won't require LOS to lock o to enemy mobs)

This would instead give the weapon a form of utility that would make it unique and distinct to the other support weapons, without needing to buff the weapons damage profile itself. For balance sake, perhaps this is an "upgraded" version, where you must carry a backpack radio in order to make these call to your destroyer or not hat have you.

If the back pack is not required, it would further incentivize the player to use the jump packs to try and get on an elevated position call in these kinds of airstrikes (normal cooldowns apply).

Additional utility could be that perhaps when you provide "call outs" and "tag" a target with an AMR, it has the ability to highlight not only the primary target, but nearby targets on the HUD of enemies, perhaps with a faint outline or something so they can see them through smoke?

I'm just throwing ideas out now, since if we don't want to affect the power scaling of weapons perhaps adding additional utility to them would be a good way to adjust the power creep and make less desirable weapons more attractive picks?

Would love to hear other people's thoughts. Is what I suggested too OP or unreasonable for the AMR?

[kknd]

While that's a neat idea for the AMR, I'd argue that 'radio backpack that lets you call in while ADS' sounds like it's own thing, with the AMR being a useful platform to pair it with.

As for the AMR itself, if it could break off armor, that'd give it a job at all levels of play. Railgun takes to hits to do that on a Charger, if AMR could do that job in one (because ADS is required and that's a huge risk) shot? That'd be worth considering. To really make use of it, you'd need the team to cooperate, but it'd be viable.

[Equil]

The problem is just more that the railgun is too good to not bring especially on the higher difficulties where it's charger and bile titan spam. AMR deals with bile spewers okay, but that's about it.

I've found the AMR a lot more useful against bots though, since it can kill everything except tanks(maybe from the rear exhaust thing?)

[Rena Ichigawa]

Just murder bots, far more fun, and even the amr can take out a tank through their bright, glowing weak spots.

[McDinglefart]

Marksman rifle suffers from same issue it did in hd1.
In higher difficulty you fight a zerg. Slow shooting weapons has little use fighting against zerg.
Also shooting via scope decrease your survivability severely as you have to be always on the move and see your surroundings (see everything what's happening around your character).
It's just not a viable weapon for this game.
I liked sniper in hd1, but it was overkill weapon for general use outdone by assault rifles that can shoot fast and do good damage.
It should shred armor and penetrate multiple enemies.
A lot of weapons are waste of space. They need to balance the game.
Flamethrower should slighly daze/slow enemies to be viable and do more damage to elites. It takes full day to kill a charger with it unfortunetly. It would be cool to pair flamethrower with heavy armor once it fixed.

[Folly]

AMR is fine within it's niche; anything smaller than a Charger/Hulk, but big enough to waste a lot of primary weapon ammo.
If you want to carry an AMR but still be able to dispatch vehicle-class opponents, just bring other strategems to deal with them. There are several turrets and orbital strikes capable of penetrating vehicle armor.

[Karpata]

The AMR is surprisingly versatile against Automatons if you're a good shot. It can kill Hulks with ease and even tanks or tower turrets in a pinch if you target the weak spot on the back.
The real issue is that the Railgun solves all problems for bugs and bots alike and is already known as the "meta" gun so most people don't ever go back to try some of the earlier options again.
If you play around it an AMR shooter in a good position can delete important targets from a distance while the Railgun squad goes in for the objective. Unlikely to happen with randoms though.
The other day I learned that you can reasonable quickly delete chargers with the Flamethrower with maybe half a mag of sustained fire. Sadly that's the end of the good things it can do ;p

[Ursa_Luna]

Originally posted by Artimise Flare:

So I mentioned this in my original thread, but wanted to discuss it here in more detail.

The AMR appears to do well in early game difficulties, however, from what I gathered from other players who play at higher difficulties, it suffers from power creep when compared to the other options that become available.

Enemies become tougher, the quantity of these tougher does grow, and the weapons inability to deal with some of theost dangerous threats makes it a liability to the squad in some people's eyes instead of being an asset

So I was wondering, what if we gave the AMR the capability to call in specific stratagems (such as precision air strikes or orbital bombardments) while they are ADS?

This would instead give the weapon a form of utility that would make it unique and distinct to the other support weapons, without needing to buff the weapons damage profile itself. For balance sake, perhaps this is an "upgraded" version, where you must carry a backpack radio in order to make these call to your destroyer or not hat have you.

If the back pack is not required, it would further incentivize the player to use the jump packs to try and get on an elevated position call in these kinds of airstrikes (normal cooldowns apply).

Additional utility could be that perhaps when you provide "call outs" and "tag" a target with an AMR, it has the ability to highlight not only the primary target, but nearby targets on the HUD of enemies, perhaps with a faint outline or something so they can see them through smoke?

I'm just throwing ideas out now, since if we don't want to affect the power scaling of weapons perhaps adding additional utility to them would be a good way to adjust the power creep and make less desirable weapons more attractive picks?

Would love to hear other people's thoughts. Is what I suggested too OP or unreasonable for the AMR?

I think that's a really cool idea, though I can't see it ever being implemented. The tossing of beacons seems pretty hard ingrained into the game and this opens it up to a lot of cheese. I would like to see it have less weapon sway though compared to other long-range weapons at least.

[Artimise Flare]

Originally posted by Ursa_Luna:

Originally posted by Artimise Flare:

So I mentioned this in my original thread, but wanted to discuss it here in more detail.

The AMR appears to do well in early game difficulties, however, from what I gathered from other players who play at higher difficulties, it suffers from power creep when compared to the other options that become available.

Enemies become tougher, the quantity of these tougher does grow, and the weapons inability to deal with some of theost dangerous threats makes it a liability to the squad in some people's eyes instead of being an asset

So I was wondering, what if we gave the AMR the capability to call in specific stratagems (such as precision air strikes or orbital bombardments) while they are ADS?

This would instead give the weapon a form of utility that would make it unique and distinct to the other support weapons, without needing to buff the weapons damage profile itself. For balance sake, perhaps this is an "upgraded" version, where you must carry a backpack radio in order to make these call to your destroyer or not hat have you.

If the back pack is not required, it would further incentivize the player to use the jump packs to try and get on an elevated position call in these kinds of airstrikes (normal cooldowns apply).

Additional utility could be that perhaps when you provide "call outs" and "tag" a target with an AMR, it has the ability to highlight not only the primary target, but nearby targets on the HUD of enemies, perhaps with a faint outline or something so they can see them through smoke?

I'm just throwing ideas out now, since if we don't want to affect the power scaling of weapons perhaps adding additional utility to them would be a good way to adjust the power creep and make less desirable weapons more attractive picks?

Would love to hear other people's thoughts. Is what I suggested too OP or unreasonable for the AMR?

I think that's a really cool idea, though I can't see it ever being implemented. The tossing of beacons seems pretty hard ingrained into the game and this opens it up to a lot of cheese. I would like to see it have less weapon sway though compared to other long-range weapons at least.

That's part of the reason why I suggested limiting it to certain strats to not make other too trivial? Alternatively, maybe it can be used to help increase the accuracy of orbital bombardments by laser designating targets via the scope/backpack combo?

[Gergin]

Against Bots, the AMR is actually in a pretty good spot. They just need to tone down the Rocket Devastators a bit and things will be feeling pretty good.
Against Bugs, the Charger and eventually Bile Titan spam largely necessitates a Railgun. It is nice for headshotting spewers but that's kind of about all it brings to the table.

[Artimise Flare]

Originally posted by Gergin:

Against Bots, the AMR is actually in a pretty good spot. They just need to tone down the Rocket Devastators a bit and things will be feeling pretty good.
Against Bugs, the Charger and eventually Bile Titan spam largely necessitates a Railgun. It is nice for headshotting spewers but that's kind of about all it brings to the table.

Hmm, dunno, just seems like the autocannon or railgun is meta in 4+ difficulty, simply because of ease of use. Both of which appears to be more flexible overall compared to the AMR.

The AC can solo kill Hulks, while the AMR cannot.then again, reload is slow on the AC so I suppose that's the con of using it?

[Space Badger]

I love it. Cos it give you sense of realism.

I am running as a lookout for my squad.
Pointing heavy targets like tanks for our rocketer.
Also taking out Comissioners (Flare bots) before they call reinforcements.
If things go south AMR gives me enough fire power to take out Hulk.
(remember to always adjust scope range depending on the situation)
With jet pack or shield. Smoke stratagem for quick disappearing and walking barrage or 380. I can clear most of objectives.

Many people here wish they could outgun every type of units. AMR is not for that.
Look at real life snipers. You want to take a tank by sniper rifle?! Really?

Good Hunting fellow Helldiver Snipers. For democracy!

[Neon Samurai]

I honestly think the AMR just needs a buff so it can stay relevant in later games, either a bigger mag or better light/medium armour damage. I can't see a reason to take it over the Autocannon, which does more damage, bigger mag, more reloads with the backpack, rapid fire and great accuracy.

[Scamdiver]

AMR is good vs bots even on high difficulties. I was surprised when i tried it against bots for the first time.

[Achronus]

The AMR does EXPLOSIVE damage; can bust doors and the like.
It has a high speed round.
Bugs DO have squishy bits.
the AMR -SHOULD- be able to do significant damage (and internal bleeding, perhaps debilitating movement?) to bugs on weakspot hit (it does not) by penetrating the weak point and detonating the round INSIDE the target. Or the AMR might be used to hit weakpoints already in the armor to blast large plates off? Like yeah I can't just kill you but I can break your armor so any dude with a liberator can chew you with standard rifle fire.

Calling in (Single) precision arty hits could be linked to the stratagems you have unlocked?
Can call in 120mm direct if unlocked (MUCH more often if 120mm is in your current kit)
Can call in 380mm if it is in your current kit.
Can call in single laser guided bombs if you have (fill in tier here) airstrike upgrade.

[Artimise Flare]

Originally posted by Scamdiver:

AMR is good vs bots even on high difficulties. I was surprised when i tried it against bots for the first time.

I tested it out recently myself, and I think I'd prefer a slightly different reticule for the scope. A simple crosshair instead of the circle would make precision shooting a little bit easier for me. There are times, even with maximum magnification, it feels like I can lose my target behind that glowing blue doughnut.

Just a preference thing in the end though I suppose. You are right though, it does well at taking out the really dangerous mobs if you can get into a good position. Also nice for taking out the sentries that man machine guns while your squad mates move in.

In such situations though, I think this weapon does better with a coordinated team, much like the SPEAR. Randoms I don't think appreciate you as much.

A part of me wishes the score board showed how many "special" and "elite" units you damaged or destroyed. Would help to show what kind of impact you had during the mission in regards to enemies eliminated. You can call hundreds of chaff, but if the guy with the AMR, AC, RR, RG or SPEAR was responsible for taking out the more dangerous enemies and had a lower mob count than others, I'd say he/she provided a more to the teams success than raw kills alone.