Some Weapons and Strategems need buffs.

[Zeromentor]

Since we are all here, waiting and wondering when the next time we will get to play, I decided to create this little discussion piece.

Many of the guns in Helldivers 2 are not balanced well. Many of the Strategems are just plain bad or have alternatives that are much better. Let's start from the top with Weapons and what *I* think they need adjusted, feel free to disagree, but try to be constructive and within reason.

The Shotguns-
Namely, the two pump-action shotguns. We can all agree they are very outmatched by the Breaker. Too few rounds (56 max, 16 in the full double-magazines). The damage is fine, I guess, though I wish they were more accurate. The Slug variant should also have a higher armor pen value, as it is firing a slug, not a grouping of smaller pellets. Compared to the Breaker neither of these weapons deliver anything better. Lower max ammo, similar damage, much slower fire rate, for nearly zero trade off.

The Marksman rifles-
Both are just poorly balanced. They lack the damage needed to make them shine. They do barely double the damage of the Liberator per round fired, but lack the magazines and ammo per mag. They also don't have higher penetration values, and the CS variant has terrible recoil that limits firing multiple rounds at longer ranges, which limits the damage it can put on target compared to the Liberator. The damage, if nothing else, should be increased but around 50, though I think the CS variant really needs Medium Penetration like the Lib-Penetrator.

The Liberator Penetrator-
Wow. Less ammo, less damage, less rate of fire (because Burst Fire means you WILL lose those rounds-per-minute against the full auto Liberator). What does it do better? It has Medium Penetration. But all the other numbers make it much weaker as a whole. I think the magazine should be boosted back up to 45 rounds, to equalize it with the normal Liberator, but you can keep the unique burst fire and lower damage as a trade off for the penetration value it brings to the table. As is, the only thing it does better than the normal Lib is pen those mid-sized armored bugs, but those have weaknesses plenty at their front with the lower legs and joints being penned by the normal Lib.

Now for the Strategems-
I'm going to keep this relatively brief and go after, what I feel, is the two worst offenders. The 120mm HE Orbital, and the 380mm HE Orbital.
While I think the idea of them is cool, I think we can all agree they lack in value. But I think the fix for them is easy enough, just by looking at the Walking Fire Orbital. That one in particular drops the rounds moving away from you, and I think with the other two we can build off that. The 120mm could land at the outer edge and work its way inward. This does two things in regards to balance:
(One) It doesn't make it better than other orbitals as the rounds are still likely to miss moving targets, but for stationary ones, like bug tunnels or factories, it is likely to hit around the last barrage and destroy the target. Mobile targets will probably walk out of the fire-zone before the barrage reaches the middle.
(Two) It stops missing nearly everything you hope it will hit. Now it will actually strike the primary target, provided it hasn't moved. This can be combined with EMS rounds to make the target immobile and primed for 120mm-death.

The 380mm... Where to even begin. At the moment, this thing is more dangerous to a team than a Bile Titan Pride Parade and a dozen Chargers. It is so inaccurate that when I learned to use it in a less suicidal manner I'd run forward, max out the throw range and then run away, and still hide behind a rock and start praying. How can we fix this? Well, the opposite of the 120mm. First round hits near the target beacon, and the rounds falling after that walk out towards the border. This way it can still wreck a base, but is also a threat to crowds, elites and stationary targets.

I think we can all think of other weapons and strategems that are missing something, or need something changed to balance them. Let's discuss.

[Fractured]

Not some, most. Almost everything is sub par, besides a rather handful of items.

[The Rim Reaper]

Unfortunately, the breaker is just meta and things need to change. Their is no build diversity it's just (my self included) lvl 28's running around with breakers or incendiary breakers because nothing else comes close to it. It's a shame.

[McFuzz]

The breaker needs less damage and a slower fire rate, the Slugger needs more damage, the Breaker Fully Automatic needs more damage, but only a little.

I think these would make them different enough to stop the Breaker spam. Like, most people who shout against a breaker nerf are only doing so because it's all they use. Nerf it, but buff others things to match it. Achieve balance.

[Karak Sonen]

Some?

Except for outliers like the Breaker, Railcannon Orbital, Airstrike & Railgun pretty much everything needs a buff. Most things aren't even viable at 5+ anymore without feeling like you actively gimp yourself.

I do have a theory that this is cause an upgrade system similar to what the first game had is still amiss, where upgrades that would make some weapons and stratagems viable would be purchasable.

[Zeromentor]

Originally posted by The Rim Reaper:

Unfortunately, the breaker is just meta and things need to change. Their is no build diversity it's just (my self included) lvl 28's running around with breakers or incendiary breakers because nothing else comes close to it. It's a shame.

That's because it brings a lot to the table that other weapons are missing. High damage, high rate of fire, low recoil, high ammunition count, etc etc etc.

A marksman rifle would be better for long range, but lacks the damage, and has too much recoil. The Assault Rifles lack the damage per round fired, and bring only slightly more total ammo, but that's nothing compared to nearly every pellet fired from the Breaker doing just as much damage as a single round from the Liberator or Defender.

The other weapons need buffs, the Breaker doesn't need a nerf. The pump-actions need a tigher spread, more ammo overall and less recoil. The ARs and SMG need more rate of fire. The MRs need more damage and pen.

At this rate the common conclusion most gamers want is the Breaker nerfed, and while that requires less effort it doesn't do anything more than push people to the next singular meta weapon.

[Guardian_Angel]

Originally posted by Zeromentor:

The Slug variant should also have a higher armor pen value, as it is firing a slug, not a grouping of smaller pellets. Compared to the Breaker neither of these weapons deliver anything better. Lower max ammo, similar damage, much slower fire rate, for nearly zero trade off.

It does have higher armour pen. Slugger is actually much closer to Breaker in general high-difficulty effectiveness than you think.

Not only does it punch through medium armour, it also staggers enemies and cancels their attacks on penetrating hits.

The ammo amount is very low, though. But ammo backpack is meta anyway, so that just fixes itself.

[UK Mikeyboy]

I'd like a little damage boost to napalm.

[TheSuit]

Liberator Penetrator is somewhat of a travesty there is no unit I have found that liberator penetrates more than Standard Liberator

Apparently game only has light and heavy armor there is no medium armor enemies that die faster

Flame thower needs a buff, not only slows you down the intial damage is so low even small enemies laugh at you.

Marksman rifles would be good if they fixed hitbox on enemeis to make crit shots viable

Right now thanks to enemy spam there really is no viability in using it.

Double Barrel Shotgun is the worst gun in the game. I honestly have no idea why devs put it in the game. The slugger a primary shotgun outperforms it in every way

[Encore]

I agree with breaker slight nerf, its just as powerfull as it was in HD1 agaist cyborgs, point in general dirrection and everything there is dead. maybe it need damage drop off with distance.
Heavy Sniper riffle could use less recoil. Also it would be cool if they added backpack for Machinegun to be able to shoot without reload with it, making it optional.

[0Synergy]

The Laser Rifle is a laser pointer, The Flamethrower is a warm water super soaker, Enemies simply walk through shield generator relay, Laser Cannon is a slightly stronger laser pointer( one of those illegal ebay ones), Arc Thrower is a taser at best. Mortar Sentry kills more hell divers then enemies (make it target big enemies first please)

Honestly the balance is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Encore]

Originally posted by TheSuit:

Liberator Penetrator is somewhat of a travesty there is no unit I have found that liberator penetrates more than Standard Liberator

Apparently game only has light and heavy armor there is no medium armor enemies that die faster

Flame thower needs a buff, not only slows you down the intial damage is so low even small enemies laugh at you.

Marksman rifles would be good if they fixed hitbox on enemeis to make crit shots viable

Right now thanks to enemy spam there really is no viability in using it.

Double Barrel Shotgun is the worst gun in the game. I honestly have no idea why devs put it in the game. The slugger a primary shotgun outperforms it in every way

there is deffinetely medium armor, i can clearly penetrate enemies with starting MG that i cant penetrate with Liberator

[Zeromentor]

Originally posted by 0Synergy:

The Laser Rifle is a laser pointer, The Flamethrower is a warm water super soaker, Enemies simply walk through shield generator relay, Laser Cannon is a slightly stronger laser pointer( one of those illegal ebay ones), Arc Thrower is a taser at best. Mortar Sentry kills more hell divers then enemies (make it target big enemies first please)

Honestly the balance is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Yeah, the Flamer is pretty weak, especially compared to the two LMGs which server a similar purpose in crowd control. It could definitely use a damage buff, as well as the burning effect probably doing more damage to smaller targets.
I haven't used the Laser Cannon myself, but from observing others it seems pretty weak. Accurate, with nearly infinite ammo, but too little damage to prefer it over the Stalwart LMG. In that same vein, the Scythe Laser Rifle does half the DPS of the Liberator, overheats far too quickly and doesn't seem to stagger the enemy at all. It needs to fire longer without overheating, cause the cooldown period is too long, and probably needs a damage buff. Heck, a build-up of heat that slowly sets target aflame would be cool, too, and might help with the low DPS.

As for the Mortar, I noticed it fires on targets that are dead. IF it targets something, and you kill that target, it will continue to fire it's burst anyway. Wasting ammo, and potentially lives, as it dumps out 5 explosive rounds at a dead enemy.

Arc thrower needs more damage, more range and more chain, same with the Tesla we can call in. It's fine for killing small groups of small targets, but at higher difficulties killing 1 to 3 enemies per charge is too slow, and anyone could easily dump a magazine from another weapon and rack up more kills. The chain needs to be longer, as it seems to max out at 3.

[0Synergy]

Originally posted by Zeromentor:

Originally posted by 0Synergy:

The Laser Rifle is a laser pointer, The Flamethrower is a warm water super soaker, Enemies simply walk through shield generator relay, Laser Cannon is a slightly stronger laser pointer( one of those illegal ebay ones), Arc Thrower is a taser at best. Mortar Sentry kills more hell divers then enemies (make it target big enemies first please)

Honestly the balance is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Yeah, the Flamer is pretty weak, especially compared to the two LMGs which server a similar purpose in crowd control. It could definitely use a damage buff, as well as the burning effect probably doing more damage to smaller targets.
I haven't used the Laser Cannon myself, but from observing others it seems pretty weak. Accurate, with nearly infinite ammo, but too little damage to prefer it over the Stalwart LMG. In that same vein, the Scythe Laser Rifle does half the DPS of the Liberator, overheats far too quickly and doesn't seem to stagger the enemy at all. It needs to fire longer without overheating, cause the cooldown period is too long, and probably needs a damage buff. Heck, a build-up of heat that slowly sets target aflame would be cool, too, and might help with the low DPS.

As for the Mortar, I noticed it fires on targets that are dead. IF it targets something, and you kill that target, it will continue to fire it's burst anyway. Wasting ammo, and potentially lives, as it dumps out 5 explosive rounds at a dead enemy.

Arc thrower needs more damage, more range and more chain, same with the Tesla we can call in. It's fine for killing small groups of small targets, but at higher difficulties killing 1 to 3 enemies per charge is too slow, and anyone could easily dump a magazine from another weapon and rack up more kills. The chain needs to be longer, as it seems to max out at 3.

Yea also a QOL feature that would be good would be a heat gauge on the Laser Cannon and Scythe first person, its hard to look at the tiny heat gauge in the bottom of my screen (32:9 aspect ratio) But until then I will continue to only bring in the Breaker.

[OddyTurner]

Originally posted by McFuzz:

The breaker needs less damage and a slower fire rate, the Slugger needs more damage, the Breaker Fully Automatic needs more damage, but only a little.

I think these would make them different enough to stop the Breaker spam. Like, most people who shout against a breaker nerf are only doing so because it's all they use. Nerf it, but buff others things to match it. Achieve balance.

I hated the original starting weapon. As soon as I unlocked the Punisher I used it until I got the Breaker and have stayed on that since (obviously tried other weapons here and there). Nerfing DMG never works in games, it just makes "the decent" item as bad as all the other items. Buff or tweak the other guns to add variety. Everyone is only using the Breaker because it's the only gun that can get the job done effectively. As a person who loves the breaker and would probably still use it over all the other weapons even if they were all balanced, I think the one thing they should do with it is reduce it's range. You can literally snipe with it at 60 meters. With that being said, they shouldn't reduce it's range without tweaking all other weapons.

All the other weapons need more "something." The Punisher I like because of the shell reload not wasting mags, but the DMG should be higher with the slow rate of fire to tempt people to think about that over the breaker.

The ARs and MRs are just not worth it. They need an increase in DMG and the MRs should always pen Med armor. I can empty a mag from the Lib Pen and do almost nothing to any med size enemy, meanwhile I empty my Breaker and clear out all the little enemies and a couple of med enemies in a pack.

I like the Stalwart for clearing small/unarmored enemies, but not enough to take it over the Railgun or GL. The Stalwart should be a Primary, not support.

The Flamethrower (all fire weapons actually) need a big buff, and they should either slow or cause a type of "panic" to organic enemies. The Flamethrower needs more range as well. I typically play on Suicide - Helldive, but I would never take fire in there. To get the Fire Achievement I dropped down to Medium and killed 100 enemies. Even in Medium you can feel how awful the FT and fire in general is.

[Aedwynn]

Just look at Stratagem promo/explanation Videos, it is pathetic.
110mm Eagle Rockets fail to kill all bots from a tiny group they are targeted at.
120mm barrage and 380mm barrage hit nothing.
500Kg bomb fails to destroy any bug holes in the big nest it is dropped to.