The Terminids Have 0 Cons

[HumanDude]

Its literally what it says it is and i think everyone ive talked to has had a very reasonable disenjoyment with bugs on harder levels. I'm just going to go over what they have OVER the robots which when i start going over it is sad.

-Terminids have better range that will kill you and hit you more than Automatans

-Terminids have better mobility even on the tankiest and strongest ones

-Terminids Take more shots than the Automatans by double or more on some of the tankier ones

-Terminids often spawn more than Automatans and again due to high hp are going to be harder to get to stop spawning

-Terminids Have the ability to drive you out of cover with MOBILE mortars (the high tech automatans dont have the tech to do unless its a building)

-Terminids are better at swarming the player than robots due to their fast mobility

-Most strategems work better on the robots as opposed to the terinids which will render quite a lot pretty useless

I mean I know they might have 1 or 2 cons but comparison wise absolutely 0. Tanks are slow moving so easy to hit with a air strike. Hulks take 2 anti matter shots. Wtf were they thinking when designing these. Terminids in comparison to automatans are just way to op and way better at everything. Shots from Automatans are tickles on the hp bar while Terminids either chunk your hp and slow you or they just absolute one hit you at full hp with a range attack that didnt even hit you.

I can't even tell if terminids were suppose to be the main one or not but ill be sticking to robots for the rest of the game. I'll be waiting for that change log with the fat terinids nerf if not well good job killing off 50% of the fun. I'm sorry just one faction should not have objectively higher stats with everything in their kit better than others. Thats just poor game design and clearly a lack of balance.

[Vivianite]

zero cons they say, alright;

napalm does more work than terminds vs automatons because bug holes/breaches reliably spawn them right on top of it and reliably cook to null about 80% of what comes out

scout groups of automatons have heavy armored walkers at an almost guarantee occurrence, terminds at worst will have chargers as a part of their patrol and you wont really see this until lv6, walkers can turn up as soon as lv3 or 4

Bile titan is one of the easiest high-threat enemies to play chicken with, a hulk/tank is not, you can get a charger killed by a bile titan, not so much a hulk/tank killing another hulk/tank

automatons have a harder breach-point than bugholes when it comes to outposts, more fortifications, AP mines, mounted turrets, and an overall ergo-shaped location defensively. bugholes are at worst, an outcropping, most of them are just inside a basin or just, physically in the open, fish in the barrel easy to deal with.

the only heavy armor terminds get are chargers and bile titans, the automatons can make use of a walker and a shield wielding trooper far more frequently than terminds will ever that have such armor cases.

the worst thing bugs can have on a map as a non-standard structure is a spore spewer and a stalker lair, automatons get mortar teams, stratagem disabling jamming arrays, and a force-bot-drop detecting tower.

the only cut bugs have above automatons is their ability to remain alive and do damage after head severance/weakspot explosion without hindrance, they suck otherwise.

[HumanDude]

Messaggio originale di Gul Bjorn:

it's almost like you're saying they're different, and have to be approached differently. I'd never considered this.

It's almost like you didn't read nor tackle my points?

[HumanDude]

Messaggio originale di Vivianite:

zero cons they say, alright;

napalm does more work than terminds vs automatons because bug holes/breaches reliably spawn them right on top of it and reliably cook to null about 80% of what comes out

scout groups of automatons have heavy armored walkers at an almost guarantee occurrence, terminds at worst will have chargers as a part of their patrol and you wont really see this until lv6, walkers can turn up as soon as lv3 or 4

Bile titan is one of the easiest high-threat enemies to play chicken with, a hulk/tank is not, you can get a charger killed by a bile titan, not so much a hulk/tank killing another hulk/tank

automatons have a harder breach-point than bugholes when it comes to outposts, more fortifications, AP mines, mounted turrets, and an overall ergo-shaped location defensively. bugholes are at worst, an outcropping, most of them are just inside a basin or just, physically in the open, fish in the barrel easy to deal with.

the only heavy armor terminds get are chargers and bile titans, the automatons can make use of a walker and a shield wielding trooper far more frequently than terminds will ever that have such armor cases.

the worst thing bugs can have on a map as a non-standard structure is a spore spewer and a stalker lair, automatons get mortar teams, stratagem disabling jamming arrays, and a force-bot-drop detecting tower.

the only cut bugs have above automatons is their ability to remain alive and do damage after head severance/weakspot explosion without hindrance, they suck otherwise.

Okay something worth covering.

Napalm IS better against bugs but with their high hp pool it really doesn't do as well as explosive do to robots. Right and the breaches can be counter by 80%. This is a good fact if you noted that drop ships can be countered 100% by shooting down the entire ship with one recoilless rifle.

Walkers do have some pretty good armor. Though compared to a charger or hive gaurd are easier to deal with. To easily counter a Walker you simply equip any explosive and hit its sides or the ground under it. Not only this you can run around it and easily take out the robot using it. Chargers will simply take a lot of damage to kill compared to walkers and aren't as simple as shooting it in the back a few times. Bile titans if you dare alert one (or they just exist everywhere in helldiver difficulty) will be the highest hp target of them all requires very specific tools while being a big threat OR annoyance.

You are right about the Bile Titans being easy to deal with by running around BUT if you are unlucky these things can almost most times slow you with their bile or just destroy your hp. I've had times visually where I've died to one without its spit being on my screen. Even mid air far away as I was using the jump pack. Their range can get insane if some weird mechanic happens. You can also get them to kill each other easier but that also doesn't matter that much with automatons sense they die easily anyways. Hulk can literally be 2 shot with a anti matter sniper so instead of having you run from it constantly you can just take it out in 2 seconds.

For defenses its true the robots do have more aces up their sleeves but I wouldn't really give em too much for it but yes its true. The issue is mines, turrets anything defense wise are really easy to deal with. Yes they do have forts basically but its almost setup in your favor except for I'd say mines. The amount of cover they give you allows you to just sneak or easily run away after you do anything. Again with robots being so weak you can easily pick off any threats. The bugs just simply need one thing for their defense and thats their ultimate strength. Some of the strongest bugs exist in the nest and work together really well unlike robots meaning the odds of you coming out alive is almost 0. They will always follow you though anyways and swarm you in some way and again their hp makes sure you don't get any easy kills in. I will say though its riskier to mess with bug holes but you do get an easier time taking nests out.

Again with heavy armor its more about who uses it better rather than numbers. Again if a grenade or running around then can kill them in a second then it doesn't matter. Tanks also exist but man they are so slow you can throw any orbital on em and always kill them.

I agree the robots do get better utility structures for sure but again a good amount aren't that threatening. The mortar really is not that accurate and often will just throw you a lil and deal some damage. Compare this to bugs version of the mortar and you will realize its better as its mobile has a bigger aoe and will about 1 hit you if you're hit anywhere within that aoe. The bot drop tower also isn't as bad as line of sight is its weakness and a well placed orbital. I'm pretty sure if you just destroy it you are perfectly fine no force bot drop. Now the jamming tower is probably its best structure as it can even shut down respawns and some very valuable items.

If bugs somehow suck while doing a good amount of things better than robots than thats interesting. I do agree though there are cons. The cons though are just like so small you might as well not list them. Ah bugs get sunburnt a lil outside but they can easily kill you in one sec. No but bugs have very simple but big strengths so they don't need anything else. About the biggest thing robots might have is the ability to slow you down making you take more time to manage things. The bugs just will chase you with their speed across the map even if you got 500 feet between them. Their hp is insane compared to things like hulks who only need 2 anti matter sniper shots. Their attacks pose bigger threats as they deal way more damage.

The robots are slow have little health and suck at most their specialties while bugs are FAST have MASSIVE health and are great at their specialties when they do hit them. Robots will pressure you but Bugs will override any possible chance of working out a solution even through calling down strategems. To my knowledge robots just have way more solutions than bugs. Bugs have a few things and thats all end game level 20 gear that completely nullifies their one hits. A rocket may one hit me but its an attack pattern i can bait then use that opportunity to kill whoever shot it. Bile may one hit me and I risk even trying to bait it but its unavoidable anyways. Luck will surely decide though on if it somehow hits me from 6 feet away. Literally all i hear is "use the energy shield to block it"...

Though i do thank you for the genuine points you made. I was also trying to see if I could get anything useful out of this but it just seems to actually be use op end game stuff so i guess cool.

[Vivianite]

Messaggio originale di HumanDude:

Messaggio originale di Vivianite:

zero cons they say, alright;

napalm does more work than terminds vs automatons because bug holes/breaches reliably spawn them right on top of it and reliably cook to null about 80% of what comes out

scout groups of automatons have heavy armored walkers at an almost guarantee occurrence, terminds at worst will have chargers as a part of their patrol and you wont really see this until lv6, walkers can turn up as soon as lv3 or 4

Bile titan is one of the easiest high-threat enemies to play chicken with, a hulk/tank is not, you can get a charger killed by a bile titan, not so much a hulk/tank killing another hulk/tank

automatons have a harder breach-point than bugholes when it comes to outposts, more fortifications, AP mines, mounted turrets, and an overall ergo-shaped location defensively. bugholes are at worst, an outcropping, most of them are just inside a basin or just, physically in the open, fish in the barrel easy to deal with.

the only heavy armor terminds get are chargers and bile titans, the automatons can make use of a walker and a shield wielding trooper far more frequently than terminds will ever that have such armor cases.

the worst thing bugs can have on a map as a non-standard structure is a spore spewer and a stalker lair, automatons get mortar teams, stratagem disabling jamming arrays, and a force-bot-drop detecting tower.

the only cut bugs have above automatons is their ability to remain alive and do damage after head severance/weakspot explosion without hindrance, they suck otherwise.

Okay something worth covering.

Napalm IS better against bugs but with their high hp pool it really doesn't do as well as explosive do to robots. Right and the breaches can be counter by 80%. This is a good fact if you noted that drop ships can be countered 100% by shooting down the entire ship with one recoilless rifle.

Walkers do have some pretty good armor. Though compared to a charger or hive gaurd are easier to deal with. To easily counter a Walker you simply equip any explosive and hit its sides or the ground under it. Not only this you can run around it and easily take out the robot using it. Chargers will simply take a lot of damage to kill compared to walkers and aren't as simple as shooting it in the back a few times. Bile titans if you dare alert one (or they just exist everywhere in helldiver difficulty) will be the highest hp target of them all requires very specific tools while being a big threat OR annoyance.

You are right about the Bile Titans being easy to deal with by running around BUT if you are unlucky these things can almost most times slow you with their bile or just destroy your hp. I've had times visually where I've died to one without its spit being on my screen. Even mid air far away as I was using the jump pack. Their range can get insane if some weird mechanic happens. You can also get them to kill each other easier but that also doesn't matter that much with automatons sense they die easily anyways. Hulk can literally be 2 shot with a anti matter sniper so instead of having you run from it constantly you can just take it out in 2 seconds.

For defenses its true the robots do have more aces up their sleeves but I wouldn't really give em too much for it but yes its true. The issue is mines, turrets anything defense wise are really easy to deal with. Yes they do have forts basically but its almost setup in your favor except for I'd say mines. The amount of cover they give you allows you to just sneak or easily run away after you do anything. Again with robots being so weak you can easily pick off any threats. The bugs just simply need one thing for their defense and thats their ultimate strength. Some of the strongest bugs exist in the nest and work together really well unlike robots meaning the odds of you coming out alive is almost 0. They will always follow you though anyways and swarm you in some way and again their hp makes sure you don't get any easy kills in. I will say though its riskier to mess with bug holes but you do get an easier time taking nests out.

Again with heavy armor its more about who uses it better rather than numbers. Again if a grenade or running around then can kill them in a second then it doesn't matter. Tanks also exist but man they are so slow you can throw any orbital on em and always kill them.

I agree the robots do get better utility structures for sure but again a good amount aren't that threatening. The mortar really is not that accurate and often will just throw you a lil and deal some damage. Compare this to bugs version of the mortar and you will realize its better as its mobile has a bigger aoe and will about 1 hit you if you're hit anywhere within that aoe. The bot drop tower also isn't as bad as line of sight is its weakness and a well placed orbital. I'm pretty sure if you just destroy it you are perfectly fine no force bot drop. Now the jamming tower is probably its best structure as it can even shut down respawns and some very valuable items.

If bugs somehow suck while doing a good amount of things better than robots than thats interesting. I do agree though there are cons. The cons though are just like so small you might as well not list them. Ah bugs get sunburnt a lil outside but they can easily kill you in one sec. No but bugs have very simple but big strengths so they don't need anything else. About the biggest thing robots might have is the ability to slow you down making you take more time to manage things. The bugs just will chase you with their speed across the map even if you got 500 feet between them. Their hp is insane compared to things like hulks who only need 2 anti matter sniper shots. Their attacks pose bigger threats as they deal way more damage.

The robots are slow have little health and suck at most their specialties while bugs are FAST have MASSIVE health and are great at their specialties when they do hit them. Robots will pressure you but Bugs will override any possible chance of working out a solution even through calling down strategems. To my knowledge robots just have way more solutions than bugs. Bugs have a few things and thats all end game level 20 gear that completely nullifies their one hits. A rocket may one hit me but its an attack pattern i can bait then use that opportunity to kill whoever shot it. Bile may one hit me and I risk even trying to bait it but its unavoidable anyways. Luck will surely decide though on if it somehow hits me from 6 feet away. Literally all i hear is "use the energy shield to block it"...

Though i do thank you for the genuine points you made. I was also trying to see if I could get anything useful out of this but it just seems to actually be use op end game stuff so i guess cool.

i could drop a fat hot take and say arc thrower is the best heavy armor pen weapon in the game but that'd be reaching for straws

the real question i would ask is how omniscient are the terminids Vs the automatons, as in, how "aware" are they of a player presence both in battle and scouting around. honestly? terminids seem to be very difficult to shake off vs automatons in my experience, even actively countering your attempts to run by shifting their advances as you try to shake or juke them.

i know smoke does affect an enemy's sense of awareness but with the terminids having their own smoke generator (spore spewer) it seems kind of moot to use smoke against them, i need to do some field testing to know for sure.

with automatons, i could be literally right around a corner, they have seen me go around this very corner, and the object permanence on some of them is astronomically bad i wonder how the hell they suddenly lose track of their target 10 meters next to them

[HumanDude]

Messaggio originale di Vivianite:

Messaggio originale di HumanDude:

Okay something worth covering.

Napalm IS better against bugs but with their high hp pool it really doesn't do as well as explosive do to robots. Right and the breaches can be counter by 80%. This is a good fact if you noted that drop ships can be countered 100% by shooting down the entire ship with one recoilless rifle.

Walkers do have some pretty good armor. Though compared to a charger or hive gaurd are easier to deal with. To easily counter a Walker you simply equip any explosive and hit its sides or the ground under it. Not only this you can run around it and easily take out the robot using it. Chargers will simply take a lot of damage to kill compared to walkers and aren't as simple as shooting it in the back a few times. Bile titans if you dare alert one (or they just exist everywhere in helldiver difficulty) will be the highest hp target of them all requires very specific tools while being a big threat OR annoyance.

You are right about the Bile Titans being easy to deal with by running around BUT if you are unlucky these things can almost most times slow you with their bile or just destroy your hp. I've had times visually where I've died to one without its spit being on my screen. Even mid air far away as I was using the jump pack. Their range can get insane if some weird mechanic happens. You can also get them to kill each other easier but that also doesn't matter that much with automatons sense they die easily anyways. Hulk can literally be 2 shot with a anti matter sniper so instead of having you run from it constantly you can just take it out in 2 seconds.

For defenses its true the robots do have more aces up their sleeves but I wouldn't really give em too much for it but yes its true. The issue is mines, turrets anything defense wise are really easy to deal with. Yes they do have forts basically but its almost setup in your favor except for I'd say mines. The amount of cover they give you allows you to just sneak or easily run away after you do anything. Again with robots being so weak you can easily pick off any threats. The bugs just simply need one thing for their defense and thats their ultimate strength. Some of the strongest bugs exist in the nest and work together really well unlike robots meaning the odds of you coming out alive is almost 0. They will always follow you though anyways and swarm you in some way and again their hp makes sure you don't get any easy kills in. I will say though its riskier to mess with bug holes but you do get an easier time taking nests out.

Again with heavy armor its more about who uses it better rather than numbers. Again if a grenade or running around then can kill them in a second then it doesn't matter. Tanks also exist but man they are so slow you can throw any orbital on em and always kill them.

I agree the robots do get better utility structures for sure but again a good amount aren't that threatening. The mortar really is not that accurate and often will just throw you a lil and deal some damage. Compare this to bugs version of the mortar and you will realize its better as its mobile has a bigger aoe and will about 1 hit you if you're hit anywhere within that aoe. The bot drop tower also isn't as bad as line of sight is its weakness and a well placed orbital. I'm pretty sure if you just destroy it you are perfectly fine no force bot drop. Now the jamming tower is probably its best structure as it can even shut down respawns and some very valuable items.

If bugs somehow suck while doing a good amount of things better than robots than thats interesting. I do agree though there are cons. The cons though are just like so small you might as well not list them. Ah bugs get sunburnt a lil outside but they can easily kill you in one sec. No but bugs have very simple but big strengths so they don't need anything else. About the biggest thing robots might have is the ability to slow you down making you take more time to manage things. The bugs just will chase you with their speed across the map even if you got 500 feet between them. Their hp is insane compared to things like hulks who only need 2 anti matter sniper shots. Their attacks pose bigger threats as they deal way more damage.

The robots are slow have little health and suck at most their specialties while bugs are FAST have MASSIVE health and are great at their specialties when they do hit them. Robots will pressure you but Bugs will override any possible chance of working out a solution even through calling down strategems. To my knowledge robots just have way more solutions than bugs. Bugs have a few things and thats all end game level 20 gear that completely nullifies their one hits. A rocket may one hit me but its an attack pattern i can bait then use that opportunity to kill whoever shot it. Bile may one hit me and I risk even trying to bait it but its unavoidable anyways. Luck will surely decide though on if it somehow hits me from 6 feet away. Literally all i hear is "use the energy shield to block it"...

Though i do thank you for the genuine points you made. I was also trying to see if I could get anything useful out of this but it just seems to actually be use op end game stuff so i guess cool.

i could drop a fat hot take and say arc thrower is the best heavy armor pen weapon in the game but that'd be reaching for straws

the real question i would ask is how omniscient are the terminids Vs the automatons, as in, how "aware" are they of a player presence both in battle and scouting around. honestly? terminids seem to be very difficult to shake off vs automatons in my experience, even actively countering your attempts to run by shifting their advances as you try to shake or juke them.

i know smoke does affect an enemy's sense of awareness but with the terminids having their own smoke generator (spore spewer) it seems kind of moot to use smoke against them, i need to do some field testing to know for sure.

with automatons, i could be literally right around a corner, they have seen me go around this very corner, and the object permanence on some of them is astronomically bad i wonder how the hell they suddenly lose track of their target 10 meters next to them

With the arc thrower being the best man idk honestly because i never hear people talk about it but it could use some testing. To me i'd wanna use railgun on chargers or even the titan but thats even a lot of shots to deal with.

The terminids are so aware that its scary. I've literally seen stalker path all the way to you as if they have a global detection on you. This could just be due to how aware they are when alerted to you but man you will literally see them coming over hills from so far on flat desert planets.

I question those who say the robots are the smarter ones and bugs are dumber. Smoke didn't make sense to me either due to bugs literally living in it and still collectively knowing where you exactly are. I've tried hiding in certain missions or doing stealth on them but with how their nests are setup and or their awareness its almost impossible to like you can with robots.

The most annoying thing is if in solo you get swarmed and killed your hell pod doesn't put you far enough to not re alert the horde which is really annoying but better than putting you right in the middle of it again. The only way i think we've lost them is by having one person run render distance away otherwise they seem to just path back. I suppose another way is if they randomly despawn which for some reason happens on rare occasion. I legit think the best strat would to have one person go in solo alert everything run across the map or hellbomb all of it aka sacrifice either way.

[The Implication]

Maybe you'd have more people discussing this if you weren't so needlessly rude and insulting to people who disagree with you.

[gothicpando]

nah bots are worse.

[Mosey]

LOL tell me you haven't played much high difficulty without actually saying it.

I suppose if you only ever play bots the bugs could...at least in theory...give some people trouble. I think most people think bugs are easier because they don't shoot missiles or one-shot emplacements at you which, to me, seems pretty fair.

[Hand's Hermit Permit]

What a [very skilled] post.

Harder is actually easier and easier is actually harder. It's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ opposite day in here.

[HumanDude]

Messaggio originale di Mosey:

LOL tell me you haven't played much high difficulty without actually saying it.

I suppose if you only ever play bots the bugs could...at least in theory...give some people trouble. I think most people think bugs are easier because they don't shoot missiles or one-shot emplacements at you which, to me, seems pretty fair.

I don't know how willing you are to listen by already assuming i dont play high difficulty but the main counter to bots is *ding ding ding* waiting behind cover and shooting them when their attack pattern is over. Every bot has an attack pattern that allows you to take them out one by one. Bugs will simply never stop attacking you no matter what. Again most bots get wiped way faster than bugs due to weakpoints and lesser hp or just mainly weak points. Again all you do with bots is peak out when their attack pattern is over so one shotting isn't an issue.

Now to address something. Several changes have occured which heavily change the current opinion on this. Funny enough now I think they are pretty even. Robots send so many troupes after you now and swarm heavier now. It is pretty weird to comment on a post like this that has been inactive and just assume the discussion is the same. Perhaps you just wanted someone to argue with. hell idk how you found this its just necroing at this point. Rage bait idk I see no reason to comment on this present day.

[HumanDude]

Messaggio originale di Snacky:

Maybe you'd have more people discussing this if you weren't so needlessly rude and insulting to people who disagree with you.

Can you point out where I insulted people. Perhaps the insulting began with them if its the case. I very much so match energy i receive. I may be a little annoyed even at this comment because it has provided absolutely nothing but a claim with no backing to it. I find this incredibly unhelpful because realistically if you are trying to help me out or point out a problem a little more detailing would be helpful. So yes maybe I'm annoyed at the comments that are one sentence providing nothing to all of this. Yes I'm returning the same energy to people. I also end up reading a lot of these comments seeing that they are extremely blocked out on even wanting to listen when they say things to dictate they are better.

For an example "LOL tell me you haven't played much high difficulty without actually saying it." This user is already looking down on me right off the bat. Okay maybe they aren't exactly doing that but this comment is completely negative and unhelpful to the discussion. So in fairness why would I try to withhold any attempt to not be rude back. Its the issues i face in discussing things with people because in their heads they have already decided this guy is dumb and they are right. I'm not sure if you understand and perhaps the same thing is occuring but oh well. This can also remain for anyone else. I will simply match the energy as my post being started should not warrant negative comments against me. Of course it will happen so again oh well. There I have explained this without being rude or insulting. I hope...

[HumanDude]

Messaggio originale di Hand's Hermit Permit:

What a [very skilled] post.

Harder is actually easier and easier is actually harder. It's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ opposite day in here.

I hope you realize that the current state of the game is completely different from during the prime time of this discussion. While i do think some things here still stand I believe bots to be more on level with bugs. I think thats why some people here oddly enough are coming back around to this topic somehow? Yes though back then i did believe this in that version. I still entirely think it would hold up if the version was still out today. Again if it was missed that this topic was a while ago just know that. Bots are certainly tougher now so basing this discussion on the now would be pointless.

[Hariman]

...
Rethink your weapon choices, and change how you throw stratagems.

Bugs require something that can kill hordes and such.

Bots don't swarm, they overwhelm you with incoming fire.

So you don't have to lead your stratagems for bots as much.


Hulks are a nightmare even with stun grenades and good weapons to kill them.

Tanks and Factory Striders are their own brand of pain to deal with.


One or two people who are good with the Breaker Incendiary or a Machine Gun can mow down hordes of bugs.


Seriously though, they're both well designed and fun to fight.


...


In before "You didn't cover all the points zero/ten ignored!"

[Tim]

This thread was quite old before the recent post, so we're locking it to prevent confusion.