Arrowhead should have the rights to Warhammer 40k

[JF]

I can just immagine a warhammer game made by these guys

[Cliperclaper]

Publicado originalmente por Khanwolf:

Publicado originalmente por Moonlight Knight:

Custodians aren't made in the same way that Space Marines are made, so it's not like this is actually a change - it's just acknowledgement of a possibility they left out in the open but never actually did anything with.

"It is known that all Custodians begin their lives
as the infant sons of the noble houses of Terra.
It is a mark of incredible prestige to surrender
one’s child to this most glorious of callings
within the Imperium, and many notable clans
amongst the Terran aristocracy have willingly
given up almost entire generations of newborn
sons to earn it."

Source: Custodes Codex 8th edition

they are all male, always were.

Every other piece of custodes media avoids using male or female words to leave it ambiguous, the warhammer team came out a while ago saying that they would have put female custodes in the lore if not for a single higher up that wasn't letting them. There is no reason for female custodes to be a problem because, unlike astartes, they are genetically modified from childhood(so the stereotypical view of a woman won't apply because things like breasts would probably not even be there because they would get in the way). They didn't add female custodes to the lore to be "woke" or "feminist", they did it because they've been trying to for a while and are finally allowed to. Now if they added women astartes to the lore THAT would be a "woke" move because astartes are so hyped up on testosterone and organs that enhance masculine traits that any "female" astartes wouldn't even be a woman, they'd basically just be a man. Having said that, Custodes is different because there isn't a giant section of lore stating how women can't be custodes(One throwaway line from 2 editions ago does not count), and there are tangible and believable reasons as to why women could become Custodes. Think of it like this, you think a girl who is performing leagues above her male counterparts and is showing all the signs of becoming a great custodes warrior would be denied for the sole reason being that she is a girl? I do agree that if they make it so that it's always been a 50/50 split this whole time that's stupid, but that's not the case.

[WastingSanity]

Publicado originalmente por Axis of Lint:

What part of me is misunderstanding anything. I just replied to what you posted. You think the lore and immersion would be ruined, I don't.

hmm, to be fair to you I believe we should end this conversation. You are either really tired like you mentioned earlier in the thread or this is the oddest trolling I have ever seen.

Have a great day!

[Zero]

Publicado originalmente por vargtass7:

Publicado originalmente por Zero:

all of this is straight up ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, i don't see you whining about the new rogal dorn tank that's suddenly introduced but it's been there the entire time, or any other unit that SUDDENLY appears with a full backstory to it.

also the main reason they didn't want to make female custodes was the cost of making new molds, a single upper management decision stopped them from the very begining.

also. they have been explained in the lore in Echoes of Eternity.

Whatever the real world reason for it was doesnt change that the lore for decades was very firm on this. Space marines are men and sisters of battle are women.

Its not very complicated. They should just be honest about it being a retcon. ;)

Modern 40k.. is all retconned. it's CONSTANTLY retconned.. every year something gets massively overhauled. not to long ago it was the Necon, before that the squats. not to mention the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Tank that supposedly has been around throughout this entire thing, but just got released, and never once mentioned in ANY Lore.

or the sudden reintroduction of the VOTAN. the new squats.
meanwhile
you got women custodies mentioned in a novel from two years ago

as an aside: the lore is questionable on purpose, as the writers and GW both set up they aren't reliable sources of concrete information.

[WastingSanity]

Publicado originalmente por Zero:

Publicado originalmente por vargtass7:

Whatever the real world reason for it was doesnt change that the lore for decades was very firm on this. Space marines are men and sisters of battle are women.

Its not very complicated. They should just be honest about it being a retcon. ;)

Modern 40k.. is all retconned. it's CONSTANTLY retconned.. every year something gets massively overhauled. not to long ago it was the Necon, before that the squats. not to mention the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Tank that supposedly has been around throughout this entire thing, but just got released, and never once mentioned in ANY Lore.

meanwhile
you got women custodies mentioned in a novel from two years ago

Sounds like it is an IP that really doesn't know what it is doing anymore. I haven't looked into the game or lore for some time. But I do know that one of the main writers that worked for GW said that the novels are basically folktales, so they should be taken with a grain of salt.

The codexes and rule books on the other hand should be taken seriously. So when it comes to that, the new version directly conflicts with the old version.

[Bray of Cats]

Publicado originalmente por Zero:

Publicado originalmente por vargtass7:

Whatever the real world reason for it was doesnt change that the lore for decades was very firm on this. Space marines are men and sisters of battle are women.

Its not very complicated. They should just be honest about it being a retcon. ;)

Modern 40k.. is all retconned. it's CONSTANTLY retconned.. every year something gets massively overhauled. not to long ago it was the Necon, before that the squats. not to mention the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Tank that supposedly has been around throughout this entire thing, but just got released, and never once mentioned in ANY Lore.

or the sudden reintroduction of the VOTAN. the new squats.
meanwhile
you got women custodies mentioned in a novel from two years ago

as an aside: the lore is questionable on purpose, as the writers and GW both set up they aren't reliable sources of concrete information.

Yeah that quote is from a codex, but we have no context if it is an in universe character quote or a statement of fact. So it's very Schrodinger's 40k lore.

[MikeisaGoob]

Publicado originalmente por Zero:

Publicado originalmente por vargtass7:

Whatever the real world reason for it was doesnt change that the lore for decades was very firm on this. Space marines are men and sisters of battle are women.

Its not very complicated. They should just be honest about it being a retcon. ;)

Modern 40k.. is all retconned. it's CONSTANTLY retconned.. every year something gets massively overhauled. not to long ago it was the Necon, before that the squats. not to mention the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Tank that supposedly has been around throughout this entire thing, but just got released, and never once mentioned in ANY Lore.

or the sudden reintroduction of the VOTAN. the new squats.
meanwhile
you got women custodies mentioned in a novel from two years ago

as an aside: the lore is questionable on purpose, as the writers and GW both set up they aren't reliable sources of concrete information.

I think what makes me hate 40k so much isint the fact that they are adding retcons, personally I don't really care about femstodes but I am absolutely livid with how they do it. GW essentially just came out and said "yeah actually the lore was always this way you cant do anything about it" without changing, rewriting, or adding anything of substance. Atleast when we got the ♥♥♥♥ show that was primaris we got a story line explaining how they were made, why there weren't present during earlier editions, and actually brought some change narrative development to the setting. Its all blatant pandering to quickly sell new models.

[Bray of Cats]

Publicado originalmente por MikeisaGoob:

Publicado originalmente por Zero:

Modern 40k.. is all retconned. it's CONSTANTLY retconned.. every year something gets massively overhauled. not to long ago it was the Necon, before that the squats. not to mention the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Tank that supposedly has been around throughout this entire thing, but just got released, and never once mentioned in ANY Lore.

or the sudden reintroduction of the VOTAN. the new squats.
meanwhile
you got women custodies mentioned in a novel from two years ago

as an aside: the lore is questionable on purpose, as the writers and GW both set up they aren't reliable sources of concrete information.

I think what makes me hate 40k so much isint the fact that they are adding retcons, personally I don't really care about femstodes but I am absolutely livid with how they do it. GW essentially just came out and said "yeah actually the lore was always this way you cant do anything about it" without changing, rewriting, or adding anything of substance. Atleast when we got the ♥♥♥♥ show that was primaris we got a story line explaining how they were made, why there weren't present during earlier editions, and actually brought some change narrative development to the setting. Its all blatant pandering to quickly sell new models.

They have not had a chance to back it up yet though. We don't even know if we will even get a head swap yet.

[MikeisaGoob]

Publicado originalmente por Bray of Cats (it/it's):

Publicado originalmente por MikeisaGoob:

I think what makes me hate 40k so much isint the fact that they are adding retcons, personally I don't really care about femstodes but I am absolutely livid with how they do it. GW essentially just came out and said "yeah actually the lore was always this way you cant do anything about it" without changing, rewriting, or adding anything of substance. Atleast when we got the ♥♥♥♥ show that was primaris we got a story line explaining how they were made, why there weren't present during earlier editions, and actually brought some change narrative development to the setting. Its all blatant pandering to quickly sell new models.

They have not had a chance to back it up yet though. We don't even know if we will even get a head swap yet.

Idk what chance they have, its much harder to rewrite lore to suddenly include something that obviously didn't exist before than to add something new into the narrative in the present. Obviously this isint the first time GW has done this and while I do think that this whole thing is probably blown over proportion because of the sensitive nature of the topic but as a fan of the lore its very frustrating to see GW acting like this making very big and overt changes that they seemingly know will grate the community.

[Bray of Cats]

Publicado originalmente por MikeisaGoob:

Publicado originalmente por Bray of Cats (it/it's):

They have not had a chance to back it up yet though. We don't even know if we will even get a head swap yet.

Idk what chance they have, its much harder to rewrite lore to suddenly include something that obviously didn't exist before than to add something new into the narrative in the present. Obviously this isint the first time GW has done this and while I do think that this whole thing is probably blown over proportion because of the sensitive nature of the topic but as a fan of the lore its very frustrating to see GW acting like this making very big and overt changes that they seemingly know will grate the community.

I don't know there is any solid lore that they didn't exist. Has anyone gone through the whole of the new codex yet, or is it just that short story is all there is so far?

[Katitoff]

40k is cursed.

Everything post DoW2 40k related becomes a ♥♥♥♥ tier turn based shovelware or just bad indie production.

Tho Rogue Trader turned out alright and SM2 might be nice too.

[WastingSanity]

Publicado originalmente por MikeisaGoob:

I think what makes me hate 40k so much isint the fact that they are adding retcons, personally I don't really care about femstodes but I am absolutely livid with how they do it. GW essentially just came out and said "yeah actually the lore was always this way you cant do anything about it" without changing, rewriting, or adding anything of substance. Atleast when we got the ♥♥♥♥ show that was primaris we got a story line explaining how they were made, why there weren't present during earlier editions, and actually brought some change narrative development to the setting. Its all blatant pandering to quickly sell new models.

The worse part is the fact that the GW account on X is lying to fans.

I wouldn't be surprised if future codexes for other chapters include female space marines. Given that they are saying there have always been female space marines in the custodes. They will most likely do the same thing for the other chapters as well. The only way that they wouldn't is if their sales drop off because of this controversy.

[Bray of Cats]

But people lying on X is impossible!

I wouldn't be bothered if they slippery slopped in to resurrecting the Emperor, and the side effect is that she is now the Empress of Mankind. I guess I am not soft.

[Axis of Lint]

Publicado originalmente por Katitoff:

Tho Rogue Trader turned out alright

Except you know, the pro-Russian connections. I realise the vast majority of people don't care about that though.

[Khanwolf]

Publicado originalmente por Cliperclaper:

Publicado originalmente por Khanwolf:

"It is known that all Custodians begin their lives
as the infant sons of the noble houses of Terra.
It is a mark of incredible prestige to surrender
one’s child to this most glorious of callings
within the Imperium, and many notable clans
amongst the Terran aristocracy have willingly
given up almost entire generations of newborn
sons to earn it."

Source: Custodes Codex 8th edition

they are all male, always were.

Every other piece of custodes media avoids using male or female words to leave it ambiguous, the warhammer team came out a while ago saying that they would have put female custodes in the lore if not for a single higher up that wasn't letting them. There is no reason for female custodes to be a problem because, unlike astartes, they are genetically modified from childhood(so the stereotypical view of a woman won't apply because things like breasts would probably not even be there because they would get in the way). They didn't add female custodes to the lore to be "woke" or "feminist", they did it because they've been trying to for a while and are finally allowed to. Now if they added women astartes to the lore THAT would be a "woke" move because astartes are so hyped up on testosterone and organs that enhance masculine traits that any "female" astartes wouldn't even be a woman, they'd basically just be a man. Having said that, Custodes is different because there isn't a giant section of lore stating how women can't be custodes(One throwaway line from 2 editions ago does not count), and there are tangible and believable reasons as to why women could become Custodes. Think of it like this, you think a girl who is performing leagues above her male counterparts and is showing all the signs of becoming a great custodes warrior would be denied for the sole reason being that she is a girl? I do agree that if they make it so that it's always been a 50/50 split this whole time that's stupid, but that's not the case.

Games Workshop always respected all genders: There were Sisters of Silence walking along Custodes in the Emp's Vault. Inclusion is there since the beginning by design! Inclusion was always wanted and respected by GW.

I agree that female space marines would be a joke due to the hormone treatments, there is a biological difference. I dont agree with things you called a throwaway line. The Writers of the Codices wouldnt use words as "Sons" only, if there were females in their Lines.

There are way more genderspecific Lines showing they are simply all men: "The histories of Old Night tell us to fear Men of Stone and Men of Iron. They should have warned us too, of the most terrible monsters of all: the Emperor's Men of Gold."
— Attr. Minister Koja Zu of the Jermanic Steppes, M29

i can post a dozen more, if you want.

I dont understand the part where you said females could outperform males in this context. Trans-Athletes showed us that Men will always outperform women, if both sides are highly trained in the same physical Discipline: Male Swimmers or Male Martial Arts Athletes stomped these highly athletic and highly trained, very respectable women in their own discipline due to biological differences, as we can see in sports around the globe.

GW simply lied on social Media lately, although it was possible to include this with some Brainpower instead of Indifference to create a better Revenue, because as i said in the beginning, the Will to include and respect was always there: Nobody would complain now, if they didnt come up with Lies but with an enjoyable Story instead.

There are american Shareholders. This is the sole reason there is this sudden Mentality Malice, which was never needed due to the already existing inclusion of women into every Faction since the Beginning. Watch the Stock Market in the next 16 weeks please, the Changes will be visible in the next 2 weeks (it takes some time) and influence the Stock over a longer Timespan.

[LeftIsBest-James]

Publicado originalmente por Aid of Healer:

Publicado originalmente por JF:

I can just immagine a warhammer game made by these guys

it would be pretty bad, if they couldn't balance a few primaries on launch and still have a plethora of bugs and server issues 6 months in 40k will only exemplify that

I reckon ArrowHead would not be afraid to revisit the 'space fash you're cheering for makes you sound like koolaid sipping sheep' formula. About time 40K has a revamp.

They should have slogans, Ads, prayers blasted on a large TV cogitator throughout the armada. And have your character parrot them in the most c cked tone.