shield devastators are too accurate, ragdoll is getting lame

[wanderindin]

Playing any weapon that involves scoping or peeking behind cover for more than 2 seconds involves getting shot. Explosions effect too large an area including Z elevations far above/below you.

The exploding crossbow, scorcher, dominator, etc. make the game fun but playing a traditional gun feels ass.

I want to play around with the different weapons and have fun, but it involves constantly losing control and spamming stims. I have all the guns unlocked but only enjoy using 3-6~ because of enemy design and ragdoll vs bots. Bugs don't have this issue because they don't have the RNG of projectiles as much.

[Fauxsteel]

"hahahahaha ragdoll funny" -devs

[TheDeadlyShoe]

if you can't get cover, you either need to be sprinting or stunning heavy devastators.

don't peek out of the same cover you just used, the bots are happy to keep launchign rockets at the last location they saw you

[wanderindin]

Originally posted by TheDeadlyShoe:

if you can't get cover, you either need to be sprinting or stunning heavy devastators.

don't peek out of the same cover you just used, the bots are happy to keep launchign rockets at the last location they saw you

This has nothing to do with stationary gameplay. Try running from one cover to another when there are two devastators within 50 meters. Laterally or at an angle. Often they just kill you. Some of the non-meta guns don't stun even with headshots and take a full clip to kill devastators resulting in you trading damage.

I'm not looking for game tips I can beat max difficulty missions and have unlocks I'm talking about fun game design.

[Sokaku]

Originally posted by wanderindin:

Originally posted by TheDeadlyShoe:

if you can't get cover, you either need to be sprinting or stunning heavy devastators.

don't peek out of the same cover you just used, the bots are happy to keep launchign rockets at the last location they saw you

This has nothing to do with stationary gameplay. Try running from one cover to another when there are two devastators within 50 meters. Laterally or at an angle. Often they just kill you. Some of the non-meta guns don't stun even with headshots and take a full clip to kill devastators resulting in you trading damage.

I'm not looking for game tips I can beat max difficulty missions and have unlocks I'm talking about fun game design.

These are situations where you are putting yourself at a tactical disadvantage. One which these weapons are a liability. Scopes are designed for engagement distances of >200m while things like red dot sights 50~100m. That is not "peek from cover" type engagement distance, even /w HD2's reduced enemy projectile velocity.

At close range <100m you want shotguns and/or high rate of fire. If you are running something with a scope you need to play to keep the engagement distance considerably further. If you are finding yourself getting swarmed close, you're either going at it wrong or need to re-consider your choice in weaponry. Tools will feel bad if you play them like something they aren't.

[wanderindin]

Originally posted by Sokaku:

Originally posted by wanderindin:

This has nothing to do with stationary gameplay. Try running from one cover to another when there are two devastators within 50 meters. Laterally or at an angle. Often they just kill you. Some of the non-meta guns don't stun even with headshots and take a full clip to kill devastators resulting in you trading damage.

I'm not looking for game tips I can beat max difficulty missions and have unlocks I'm talking about fun game design.

These are situations where you are putting yourself at a tactical disadvantage. One which these weapons are a liability. Scopes are designed for engagement distances of >200m while things like red dot sights 50~100m. That is not "peek from cover" type engagement distance, even /w HD2's reduced enemy projectile velocity.

At close range <100m you want shotguns and/or high rate of fire. If you are running something with a scope you need to play to keep the engagement distance considerably further. If you are finding yourself getting swarmed close, you're either going at it wrong or need to re-consider your choice in weaponry. Tools will feel bad if you play them like something they aren't.

None of your advice applies and I've not given an example when I was "swarmed". Many guns without scopes perform quite poorly close up including the lightning shotgun which is total butts right now. Thanks helper mans.

Steam discussion boards never disappoint.

[Valtheran]

Use energy shield.

[DragynDance]

I actually agree that heavy devastators, the ones that use a shield are far too accurate then a thing one handing a laser minigun should be, robot or not. Which is especially funny when combined with the tooltip you get sometimes that says "bots are less accurate when you shoot them a lot", you can light him up and he will still put rounds into you nonstop. Really I think he just needs a spin up to be balanced, because when there's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 6 of them that just dropped in, or hell sometimes even one, and when you run from cover to cover, they still light you up the instant you poke your head out to aim. Like I actually am more afraid of these guys then the rocket devastators, since the rocket devastators have to like lock on for a second, but the heavies just assblast you the second you're in view.

[Castile]

On top of having a sniper accurate gatling it feels like they have no downtime. Can't count the amount of times I thought it was reloading when it was actually just baiting people out of cover.

[Fangzy]

The devs have never shot a gun in their life. Its simple as.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by wanderindin:

shield devastators are too accurate, ragdoll is getting lame
Playing any weapon that involves scoping or peeking behind cover for more than 2 seconds involves getting shot. Explosions effect too large an area including Z elevations far above/below you.

The exploding crossbow, scorcher, dominator, etc. make the game fun but playing a traditional gun feels ass.

I want to play around with the different weapons and have fun, but it involves constantly losing control and spamming stims. I have all the guns unlocked but only enjoy using 3-6~ because of enemy design and ragdoll vs bots. Bugs don't have this issue because they don't have the RNG of projectiles as much.

That is a lot of words for saying you do not get the rythm of the bots.

[Sokaku]

Originally posted by wanderindin:

Originally posted by Sokaku:

These are situations where you are putting yourself at a tactical disadvantage. One which these weapons are a liability. Scopes are designed for engagement distances of >200m while things like red dot sights 50~100m. That is not "peek from cover" type engagement distance, even /w HD2's reduced enemy projectile velocity.

At close range <100m you want shotguns and/or high rate of fire. If you are running something with a scope you need to play to keep the engagement distance considerably further. If you are finding yourself getting swarmed close, you're either going at it wrong or need to re-consider your choice in weaponry. Tools will feel bad if you play them like something they aren't.

None of your advice applies and I've not given an example when I was "swarmed". Many guns without scopes perform quite poorly close up including the lightning shotgun which is total butts right now. Thanks helper mans.

Steam discussion boards never disappoint.

Multiple + "Within 50m" = swarmed.

Not every gun is good, but most are adequate. Up close the only guns that you stand a chance with have either a high rate of fire or alpha damage (dps) or can stun/interrupt. (RoF enables suppression)

My point to your original post is that any weapon requiring scoping is being used wrong if you are engaging devastators at under 50m. If that is the distance you are engaging them, use a Breaker.

[sweng]

I agree, they are too accurate and can fire to any angle. There is even one times i get blow up to the mid air behind cover by rocket and the the heavy devastator manage to shot at me mid air and hit multiple shot and kill me. And there is no suppressive fire to them. I saw a teammate firing stalwart against them, instantly die within 0.5 second. The only suppressive fire is them suppressing you.

[Spudbar]

I always peek them from the right of my own cover, aka move toward their shield arm. That way their head is visible to me, but I'm still protected from gunfire, since there's cover between me and their MG. You can target their MG arm to try and destroy it if your DPS is good enough, since it lacks armor and is much easier to hit than a headshot.

Otherwise, you need to pay more attention to your angles. Always clear your flanks first. Have a fallback position and don't wait too long to use it - especially if you're playing ranged with a scope, you need to maintain your distance so you can cover your team if they lose their ground. If you're too exposed and can't run to a better position, go prone without diving so you can keep shooting while making yourself a smaller target. As far as last stand tactics go, I live more often than I expect to.

What scoped weapon(s) are you talking about by the way? What's your loadout? Against bots I've always used the standard AR and DMR (until the laser AR came out because despite the inaccuracy, I love infinite ammo). They're not technically ideal for devastators but do a surprisingly good job IMO. Until I discovered the autocannon I mained the AMR. Honestly the only time I'm not scoped in is for close range engagements and it works really well for me.

[wanderindin]

Originally posted by Spudbar:

I always peek them from the right of my own cover, aka move toward their shield arm. That way their head is visible to me, but I'm still protected from gunfire, since there's cover between me and their MG. You can target their MG arm to try and destroy it if your DPS is good enough, since it lacks armor and is much easier to hit than a headshot.

Otherwise, you need to pay more attention to your angles. Always clear your flanks first. Have a fallback position and don't wait too long to use it - especially if you're playing ranged with a scope, you need to maintain your distance so you can cover your team if they lose their ground. If you're too exposed and can't run to a better position, go prone without diving so you can keep shooting while making yourself a smaller target. As far as last stand tactics go, I live more often than I expect to.

What scoped weapon(s) are you talking about by the way? What's your loadout? Against bots I've always used the standard AR and DMR (until the laser AR came out because despite the inaccuracy, I love infinite ammo). They're not technically ideal for devastators but do a surprisingly good job IMO. Until I discovered the autocannon I mained the AMR. Honestly the only time I'm not scoped in is for close range engagements and it works really well for me.

This is pretty much what I'm talking about. Yeah I already do all this, but playing extremely tactically around one enemy type is pretty lame. Especially when every other enemy isn't close to their danger level currently. It's bad design.

I enjoy difficult games and don't have any issues dealing with them. But their design currently makes many guns feel bad, and making their 2nd or 3rd volley of fire that accurate instead of buffing guns is a good game balance option.