Its not fascism, is really democracy.

[Seinekar]

The game is not a fascism satire, if you look at it well.

Its indeed about democracy. You are sent in name of high ideals to fight and die because the government decided so, and you are not forced at all, you just go there because you buy the stuff about being a hero, doing your part, making a difference, etc.

If the game ressembles something, is not fascism at all. Its very similar to most western democratic countries today, and clearly inspired on the USA patriotism and "freedom" mainly.

So when the games goes playing jokes about democracy... its actually no joke. thats how democracies work. Selling the individuals cool stories about duty, defending higher goods and whatever. You don´t need to look at fascism, comunism, monarchy or any authoritarian or "evil" system as to figure out from where helldivers is getting its inspiration.

Superearth government and helldivers are not a mockery of fascism. It is indeed showing clearly how real democratic countries do to send people willingly and proudly into wars for whatever reason.

Hell, helldivers is not even being exagerated, real military propaganda of most western, democratic-labeled countries, uses exactly the same kind of arguments and have the same vibes (patriotism, doing the grater good, becoming a better yourself, serving the greater cause, defending what is loved from external dangers...)

So, as said. HD2 fits perfectly on what nowadays we call democracy, so trying to see it as a satire of fascism, imperalism or whatever is totally unneeded.

[Anarchy]

capybaras are cool a écrit :

Anarchy a écrit :

He says, having a garbage understanding of geopolitics
And local politics





He was literally a democrat earlier in his life and campaigned for socialists in California

He later in life used the term 'philosophical anarchist' to describe where he ended up at with his libertarianism

i get that your heart is in the right place here. but please believe me when i say youre acting in a way that is sort of stereotypical among left groups in how youre attacking everything outside of the us. its very clear that your mindset is still dominated by the american point of view. this is something that is actively done to try to get leftists to fight with each other. there isnt really anything i can say when you view american influence as more reliable or trustworthy than foreign influence. youre not thinking for yourself.

Because, wild thought, social credit scores and otherwise are bad and there's documented tyranny in china that has 0 to do with their ethnicity and I've read das krapital, the manifesto, and just have paid attention to Mao and anything he's said or put out, generally?

Also what they're doing to the Ugyhur's? (Though Idk if they'd also rooftop me or not.)

My worldview is driven by, actual history, factual information, not emotion, which is why I disagree with "my camp" so much

If you need emotional manipulation to push your policy, it's more often than not bad policy.

capybaras are cool a écrit :

RYXXROX a écrit :

Political spectrum
Tyranny <----------> Anarchy
Gotta move left to reach tyranny...
Fascism in the combination of political and corporate power. No party is innocent but only one wants you to be able to speak freely and be armed to defend yourself.

more like both parties use the conflict over these rights to keep you from noticing that theyre both robbing you blind

Also this

[Cryptic]

Op, would you by any chance be from Malevolon Creek?

[Netaris]

Well, I think you're wrong OP, this game isn't a satire of democracy. And what we see in this game is actually very close to actual fascism (glorified past, dehumanization of adversaries, powerfull corporations, no concern for human lives, permanent and unchalenged war propaganda, etc). The real question you should ask yourself is : "Why does so much things sounds familiar ?".

I'm a bit into History and I think this game nailed fascism pretty well, contrary to most peoples of today's western countries. Most peoples today simply don't understand what fascism really is (and it's mainly about corporatism and militarism teaming together).

[Anarchy]

Netaris a écrit :

Well, I think you're wrong OP, this game isn't a satire of democracy. And what we see in this game is actually very close to actual fascism (glorified past, dehumanization of adversaries, powerfull corporations, no concern for human lives, permanent and unchalenged war propaganda, etc). The real question you should ask yourself is : "Why does so much things sounds familiar ?".

I'm a bit into History and I think this game nailed fascism pretty well, contrary to most peoples of today's waestern countries. Most peoples today simply don't understand what fascism really is (and it's mainly about corporatism and militarism teaming together).

Again, managed democracy is a thing that has existed and currently exists in at least one country today.

Fascism, isn't a synonym for authoritarianism or totalitarianism

Using it as such or redefining it as such waters it's historical impact down

Other systems can use propaganda just as much (And do, if you look at todays world.)

[capybaras are cool]

Anarchy a écrit :

capybaras are cool a écrit :

i get that your heart is in the right place here. but please believe me when i say youre acting in a way that is sort of stereotypical among left groups in how youre attacking everything outside of the us. its very clear that your mindset is still dominated by the american point of view. this is something that is actively done to try to get leftists to fight with each other. there isnt really anything i can say when you view american influence as more reliable or trustworthy than foreign influence. youre not thinking for yourself.

Because, wild thought, social credit scores and otherwise are bad and there's documented tyranny in china that has 0 to do with their ethnicity and I've read das krapital, the manifesto, and just have paid attention to Mao and anything he's said or put out, generally?

Also what they're doing to the Ugyhur's? (Though Idk if they'd also rooftop me or not.)

My worldview is driven by, actual history, factual information, not emotion, which is why I disagree with "my camp" so much

If you need emotional manipulation to push your policy, it's more often than not bad policy.

capybaras are cool a écrit :

more like both parties use the conflict over these rights to keep you from noticing that theyre both robbing you blind

Also this

you are once again resorting to whataboutism to deflect criticism of us government policies. i dont know how it sounds in your head but that is what you are doing. it doesnt matter how leftist you feel you are, you are being a pawn of the american government by doing this.

it seems like you have the idea that someone must trust at least one source of information, so by talking trash about american government that means i am in favor of the chinese. that isn't true at all. i analyze whatever information i get from chinese sources in the same way i do for american ones, british ones, etc. what you are doing is taking a critical view of foreign sources, but not american ones. you are being manipulated by doing so.

[Anarchy]

capybaras are cool a écrit :

Anarchy a écrit :

Because, wild thought, social credit scores and otherwise are bad and there's documented tyranny in china that has 0 to do with their ethnicity and I've read das krapital, the manifesto, and just have paid attention to Mao and anything he's said or put out, generally?

Also what they're doing to the Ugyhur's? (Though Idk if they'd also rooftop me or not.)

My worldview is driven by, actual history, factual information, not emotion, which is why I disagree with "my camp" so much

If you need emotional manipulation to push your policy, it's more often than not bad policy.



Also this

you are once again resorting to whataboutism to deflect criticism of us government policies. i dont know how it sounds in your head but that is what you are doing. it doesnt matter how leftist you feel you are, you are being a pawn of the american government by doing this.

it seems like you have the idea that someone must trust at least one source of information, so by talking trash about american government that means i am in favor of the chinese. that isn't true at all. i analyze whatever information i get from chinese sources in the same way i do for american ones, british ones, etc. what you are doing is taking a critical view of foreign sources, but not american ones. you are being manipulated by doing so.

I never said their policies are good

I even said the opposite a few pages back

But lol
lmao

Btw Chinese sources automatically belong in the trash because of the ideology they based off of and are no longer really strictly an example of

Because they had just as much aptitude in propaganda as funny moustache man and the italian stallion's ♥♥♥♥♥♥ systems.

[capybaras are cool]

i have an entirely useless degree studying asian culture and politics so believe me i know how bad it is in china lol.

[Netaris]

Anarchy a écrit :

Again, managed democracy is a thing that has existed and currently exists in at least one country today.

Fascism, isn't a synonym for authoritarianism or totalitarianism

Using it as such or redefining it as such waters it's historical impact down

Well, Mussolini himself explained it pretty well, in a few words : "Fascism is a form of corporatism.", Helldivers is a true satire of fascism, what's mainly about corporations becoming way too powerfull and causing great damages to human societies (and alien ones too in Helldivers case). Except it's made in a more realistic way than most cyberpunk universes that try to imagine a futuristic version of fascism.

From my point of view, they perfectly nailed it and it's rare.

[Anarchy]

Netaris a écrit :

Anarchy a écrit :

Again, managed democracy is a thing that has existed and currently exists in at least one country today.

Fascism, isn't a synonym for authoritarianism or totalitarianism

Using it as such or redefining it as such waters it's historical impact down

Well, Mussolini himself explained it pretty well, in a few words : "Fascism is a form of corporatism.", Helldivers is a true satire of fascism, what's mainly about corporations becoming way too powerfull and causing great damages to human societies (and alien ones too in Helldivers case). Except it's made in a more realistic way than most cyberpunk universes that try to imagine a more extreme version of fascism.

From my point of view, they perfectly nailed it and it's rare.

Y'know fair I'm just tired of it being used as a buzzword

[Wizard_of_Nozs]

Seinekar a écrit :

The game is not a fascism satire, if you look at it well.

Its indeed about democracy. You are sent in name of high ideals to fight and die because the government decided so, and you are not forced at all, you just go there because you buy the stuff about being a hero, doing your part, making a difference, etc.

If the game ressembles something, is not fascism at all. Its very similar to most western democratic countries today, and clearly inspired on the USA patriotism and "freedom" mainly.

So when the games goes playing jokes about democracy... its actually no joke. thats how democracies work. Selling the individuals cool stories about duty, defending higher goods and whatever. You don´t need to look at fascism, comunism, monarchy or any authoritarian or "evil" system as to figure out from where helldivers is getting its inspiration.

Superearth government and helldivers are not a mockery of fascism. It is indeed showing clearly how real democratic countries do to send people willingly and proudly into wars for whatever reason.

Hell, helldivers is not even being exagerated, real military propaganda of most western, democratic-labeled countries, uses exactly the same kind of arguments and have the same vibes (patriotism, doing the grater good, becoming a better yourself, serving the greater cause, defending what is loved from external dangers...)

So, as said. HD2 fits perfectly on what nowadays we call democracy, so trying to see it as a satire of fascism, imperalism or whatever is totally unneeded.

"Hell, helldivers is not even being exagerated, real military propaganda of most western, democratic-labeled countries, uses exactly the same kind of arguments and have the same vibes (patriotism, doing the grater good, becoming a better yourself, serving the greater cause, defending what is loved from external dangers"

You're an idiot. Every single country in the world does this regardless of if they have democracy or some other form. Hell, most go far beyond that FORCING service or threatening the person or their entire family for their allegience. Most of every thing you said can be applied to a million different scenarios and ideals.

[ulzgoroth]

Netaris a écrit :

Well, Mussolini himself explained it pretty well, in a few words : "Fascism is a form of corporatism.", Helldivers is a true satire of fascism, what's mainly about corporations becoming way too powerfull and causing great damages to human societies (and alien ones too in Helldivers case). Except it's made in a more realistic way than most cyberpunk universes that try to imagine a futuristic version of fascism.

From my point of view, they perfectly nailed it and it's rare.

Corporatism doesn't mean what you think it means, actually. Look that one up. It's deceptive to a current-day reader.

I mean I'm actually just picking that nit and not disagreeing with where you're winding up here.

[capybaras are cool]

Anarchy a écrit :

capybaras are cool a écrit :

you are once again resorting to whataboutism to deflect criticism of us government policies. i dont know how it sounds in your head but that is what you are doing. it doesnt matter how leftist you feel you are, you are being a pawn of the american government by doing this.

it seems like you have the idea that someone must trust at least one source of information, so by talking trash about american government that means i am in favor of the chinese. that isn't true at all. i analyze whatever information i get from chinese sources in the same way i do for american ones, british ones, etc. what you are doing is taking a critical view of foreign sources, but not american ones. you are being manipulated by doing so.

I never said their policies are good

I even said the opposite a few pages back

But lol
lmao

Btw Chinese sources automatically belong in the trash because of the ideology they based off of and are no longer really strictly an example of

Because they had just as much aptitude in propaganda as funny moustache man and the italian stallion's ♥♥♥♥♥♥ systems.

doesnt it bother you that you just happen to be upset about the things that the us government also thinks you should be upset about? do you like being manipulated? i tell you you cant trust any source and you again focus specifically on the chinese. thats literally the brainwashing at work.

[capybaras are cool]

i guess it just seems impossible to you that the us government could do the exact same thing as these foreign nations you obviously distrust for good reason. maybe youre just impossible to fool.

[Yaka]

This message was sponsored by the Ministry of Truth

[Anarchy]

capybaras are cool a écrit :

Anarchy a écrit :

I never said their policies are good

I even said the opposite a few pages back

But lol
lmao

Btw Chinese sources automatically belong in the trash because of the ideology they based off of and are no longer really strictly an example of

Because they had just as much aptitude in propaganda as funny moustache man and the italian stallion's ♥♥♥♥♥♥ systems.

doesnt it bother you that you just happen to be upset about the things that the us government also thinks you should be upset about? do you like being manipulated? i tell you you cant trust any source and you again focus specifically on the chinese. thats literally the brainwashing at work.

Keep telling yourself that's why I've come to this conclusion

It doesn't make it any more true my dude.
lol
lmao