Its not fascism, is really democracy.

[Seinekar]

The game is not a fascism satire, if you look at it well.

Its indeed about democracy. You are sent in name of high ideals to fight and die because the government decided so, and you are not forced at all, you just go there because you buy the stuff about being a hero, doing your part, making a difference, etc.

If the game ressembles something, is not fascism at all. Its very similar to most western democratic countries today, and clearly inspired on the USA patriotism and "freedom" mainly.

So when the games goes playing jokes about democracy... its actually no joke. thats how democracies work. Selling the individuals cool stories about duty, defending higher goods and whatever. You don´t need to look at fascism, comunism, monarchy or any authoritarian or "evil" system as to figure out from where helldivers is getting its inspiration.

Superearth government and helldivers are not a mockery of fascism. It is indeed showing clearly how real democratic countries do to send people willingly and proudly into wars for whatever reason.

Hell, helldivers is not even being exagerated, real military propaganda of most western, democratic-labeled countries, uses exactly the same kind of arguments and have the same vibes (patriotism, doing the grater good, becoming a better yourself, serving the greater cause, defending what is loved from external dangers...)

So, as said. HD2 fits perfectly on what nowadays we call democracy, so trying to see it as a satire of fascism, imperalism or whatever is totally unneeded.

[[SPK]JackyChang714]

Some of y'all need to get out and touch the grass.

[Seinekar]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Originally posted by Seinekar:

Its indeed about democracy.

Managed Democracy is not Democracy. Go look it up.

Originally posted by Seinekar:

clearly inspired on the USA patriotism

No it is not. The USA doesn't have the market cornered on corporate greed, nationalist and populist rethoric or colonialism for the sake of capitalism.

Originally posted by Seinekar:

Superearth government and helldivers are not a mockery of fascism.

They literally are and you have been missing the point since you clearly don't understand what a managed democracy is.

Originally posted by Seinekar:

real military propaganda of most western, democratic-labeled countries, uses exactly the same kind of arguments and have the same vibes (patriotism, doing the grater good, becoming a better yourself, serving the greater cause, defending what is loved from external dangers...)

And you think communist and other forms of political constellations have different non patriotic rhetoric in their military? Seriously? Militarism is always the same and always employs the same rhetoric, regardless which country it is in. Militaries have, since the beginning of humanity, before there even was the concept of militaries, always employed the same "US vs Them" rhetoric of nationalist bunk. And patriotism is just more nationalist BS.

Originally posted by Seinekar:

So, as said. HD2 fits perfectly on what nowadays we call democracy, so trying to see it as a satire of fascism, imperalism or whatever is totally unneeded.

I don't think you are qualified to have an opinion on the subject as you seem to not even have noticed the word "managed" before that Democracy and simply decided that "dunno what that means, but i am going to assume its unimportant".

I totally noticed that HD2 political system is labeled as "managed democracy". And i know know well what it is, really, i know the term and i know real examples of it. But i guess you didn´t understood my point, as the fact of how in-game the political system of Superearth is named isn´t really relevant. Im just saying the "managed democracy" of HD2 is similar to what we call just "democracy", regardless of how in-game they name it.

Your last comment is just an ad-hominem against me a person based on blaming me for not knowing a term that:
1-I indeed know
2-is just wording about how they call the political system in-game, and as such, is irrelevant, if they called it "super-cool-political-system" i would still make my point: that HD2 is closer to reflect the actual western democracies, than of a fascism mockery.

So your ad-hominem somewhat is not only disrespectful, but just shows that you didn´t get at all the point of the argument, and instead hanged into a irrelevant wording thing to discuss just because. Should you learn to aprehend better what you read to make meaningful replies to it, instead discussing pointless details and trying to call ignorance on other people as if you were so vastly intelectually superior.

In another words, more simple: its superfluous on my argument if in-game the political system is named "managed democracy" "super democracy" "ultra-cool-political-system" or whatever name is used. My point is that the HD2 political system (whatever the name) is more ressembling western actual democracies than a supposed fascism mockery.



No it is not. The USA doesn't have the market cornered on corporate greed, nationalist and populist rethoric or colonialism for the sake of capitalism.

Sure? because thats very debatable. Let´s be honest, the "defend the democracy" "muh freedom" "defending our way of life..." the game is clearly mimicking the USA stuff, and for obvious reasons. Its not mimicking the 1940-45 Germany. Its using the rethoric of the Irak and Afganisthan wars from early this century. Exactly the same. Is not coincidence, the "Superearth" is very based on USA topics.

This point is even making me think you´re just trolling, because if you think about it, if there is a number 1 country on everything you listed (corporate greed, populist rethoric, and colonialism for the sake of capitalism) i think USA is the clear candidate.

They literally are and you have been missing the point since you clearly don't understand what a managed democracy is.

Same point again, as said before: I know what a "managed democracy" is. And im just saying that nowadays democracies resembles more than fascism, to to the HD2 political system, wich yes, is named "managed democracy", but the naming in-game was not something specially relevant as to literally quoting it. Im not sure why you get so focused on it.


And you think communist and other forms of political constellations have different non patriotic rhetoric in their military? Seriously? Militarism is always the same and always employs the same rhetoric, regardless which country it is in. Militaries have, since the beginning of humanity, before there even was the concept of militaries, always employed the same "US vs Them" rhetoric of nationalist bunk. And patriotism is just more nationalist BS.

Ofc they have their rethorics. What im stating is that the HD2 rethoric is very similar to the USA rethotic, again, taking into consideration the Irak and Afgan wars, where "delivering democracy to those countries" "delivering freedom" and such was the usual rethoric. Remember that the name of one of those operations was "Enduring Freedom". While many militaristic rethoric may be similar among very different systems, the HD2 rethoric is clearly based on the USA one from early this century. Its not about conquering, being imperial, or erradicating the pagan or impure. Is about delivering democracy and freedom. Very USA-ish.

I don't think you are qualified to have an opinion on the subject as you seem to not even have noticed the word "managed" before that Democracy and simply decided that "dunno what that means, but i am going to assume its unimportant".

And again, taking into wording. Ill say once more: i know what managed democracy means. But once again, what im stating is that HD2 political system is just like nowadays western democracy. The fact the in-game is named "managed democracy" is superfluos, it could be named "super totally cool political system" and i would still make my point: the political system of the game ressembles more to an actual western democracy than to a mockery of fascism, wich is what many people use to say.

[Exdeath]

Can we just play the game and stop with that nonsense?

[Seinekar]

Originally posted by CaBaNa:

Satire is dead, there is only the meta

Originally posted by spliff:

stop this BS. it's a game. it's fantasy. it has nothing to do with your daily lives or the real world. go read a book. touch some grass. but stop wasting resources on steam forums.

Originally posted by SPKJackyChang714:

Some of y'all need to get out and touch the grass.

Originally posted by Exdeath:

Can we just play the game and stop with that nonsense?

Guys, im not that serious lol. Calm down, take it easy.

I just made the post because I find funny that the game indeed is closer to being a satire / mockery of democracy itself than anything else. People started discussions about it being related to fascism or whatever aauthoritarian regime (in form of satire, that is)

And i just wanted to point that, if you just take a look at it, its much more closer to being a satire of our nowadays democracies, and that there is no need at all on trying to link it to any other extreme political ideas (like fascism) as some people seems to do.

[Eternal_Krieger]

Originally posted by Seinekar:

The game is not a fascism satire, if you look at it well.

Its indeed about democracy. You are sent in name of high ideals to fight and die because the government decided so, and you are not forced at all, you just go there because you buy the stuff about being a hero, doing your part, making a difference, etc.

If the game ressembles something, is not fascism at all. Its very similar to most western democratic countries today, and clearly inspired on the USA patriotism and "freedom" mainly.

So when the games goes playing jokes about democracy... its actually no joke. thats how democracies work. Selling the individuals cool stories about duty, defending higher goods and whatever. You don´t need to look at fascism, comunism, monarchy or any authoritarian or "evil" system as to figure out from where helldivers is getting its inspiration.

Superearth government and helldivers are not a mockery of fascism. It is indeed showing clearly how real democratic countries do to send people willingly and proudly into wars for whatever reason.

Hell, helldivers is not even being exagerated, real military propaganda of most western, democratic-labeled countries, uses exactly the same kind of arguments and have the same vibes (patriotism, doing the grater good, becoming a better yourself, serving the greater cause, defending what is loved from external dangers...)

So, as said. HD2 fits perfectly on what nowadays we call democracy, so trying to see it as a satire of fascism, imperialism or whatever is totally unneeded.

So only "western democracies" can have volunteers in their armed forces? only western democracies have nationalism? kiddo, no. this is textbook fascism. its all about the entity, the state. your life means nothing in comparison to the state, anything questioning the state is treason, and anything not from the state is a lie.

this, kids, is why we need to make sure everyone gets a good education, so we don't confuse fascism with democracy.

[Eternal_Krieger]

also, Germans VOTED for fascism. fascists and ultra nationalists took over and crushed anyone not of the party... managed democracy. you can vote, but the state DOESN'T change...

[capybaras are cool]

the reason why hd2 is good satire is because its very easy to draw parallels between its obviously hellish setting and the world we live in today. like super earth treats its people as entirely disposable but so do our governments just to a lesser extent. the reason why peoples draw parallels to fascism is because we really arent that far from things turning into fascism irl.

[capybaras are cool]

Originally posted by Eternal_Krieger:

also, Germans VOTED for fascism. fascists and ultra nationalists took over and crushed anyone not of the party... managed democracy. you can vote, but the state DOESN'T change...

dunno why u got clown award when its pretty obvious that democracy can (maybe does?) turn into fascism. all it requires is votes in the wrong direction. and if you base your legitimacy on a system that you also control, well then you can do whatever you want.

[harbinger]

Maybe USA is Super Earth /philosopraptor

[ScorchedUp]

helldivers 2 fans when they realize the political satire is based on real politics:

[Seinekar]

Originally posted by Eternal_Krieger:

So only "western democracies" can have volunteers in their armed forces? only western democracies have nationalism? kiddo, no. this is textbook fascism. its all about the entity, the state. your life means nothing in comparison to the state, anything questioning the state is treason, and anything not from the state is a lie.

this, kids, is why we need to make sure everyone gets a good education, so we don't confuse fascism with democracy.

And i didn´t said that (straw man phalacy, you are making here)

Anyway, let me clarify in case you are not just trying to argue "just cause".

Im not argyuing about if "other kind of governments" aside western democracy ask for volunteers (but, you are also omiting they usually have forced services too). And im not saying that "other entities" aside western democracy have nationalis, Ofc asking for volunteers to the army and being nationalist is not something EXCLUSIVE to western democracy.

But that doesn´t deny, or even is really linked, to my point: That HD2 is indeed making a mockery of western democracies, as it shares much more similarities with western democracy than anything else.

"Muh freedom", "muh way of life" "spreading democracy" or "saint liberty" are clearly pointing to USa-ish idiosyncrasy.

If for example it where based on China or Soviet Union, iot would say things like "for the people" "for the party" and such.

You are trying to argue against the obvious by just trying to change my arguments (strawman phalacy) or maybe by pointing to unrelated peripheral points instead of facing the main point of the argument itself.

[Anna Trocious Hitbox]

day 32.234 of chuds not understanding art

[Axis of Lint]

Originally posted by Seinekar:

If the game ressembles something, is not fascism at all. Its very similar to most western democratic countries today, and clearly inspired on the USA patriotism and "freedom" mainly.

You were so close. Oh well.

[Cooperal]

Originally posted by Feng Schwing:

day 32.234 of chuds not understanding art

Most people that call games art forget that most games are also commercial products, with mass sales (see: trying to please everyone) inspiring their very existence.

While we could spend all day talking about the exploitation and disposability of soldiers, the bottom line is that the makers go where the money is. They will poke fun at atrocities through satire but they would never declare a stance lest they alienate a buyer. That is not art, at least certainly not in the sense of something that deserves a spot in a gallery, and yes people would try to tell you otherwise but every industry has its own sales-driven propaganda machine.

Now commercial games have artistic merit, more like the curation of an art exhibition, but an exhibition itself is not art but a business platform.

[capybaras are cool]

Originally posted by Axis of Lint:

Originally posted by Seinekar:

If the game ressembles something, is not fascism at all. Its very similar to most western democratic countries today, and clearly inspired on the USA patriotism and "freedom" mainly.

You were so close. Oh well.

lol, right?