Locking progression behind difficulty walls IS BAD

[TravoltinoSK]

In DRG difficulty modifier increase the amount of resources, BUT you can get ALL resource types in any mission.
In HD2.
If I want a mandatory upgrade for sentry with +50% HP that it doesnt die to having its paint scratched.
Or the one that makes it waste 80% less ammo as it turns to its target in normal time, instead of shooting at the wall with turn speed of Russian KV2.

Iam forced to play RNG HEAVY 7+ difficulties where a run is either completely normal or mathematically impossible to win ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
A bile titan forces a meta, either you take the orbital/500(and land it PERFECTLY)/autocannon turret/railgun (sometimes taking ez 15 overcharged shots lol) or that titan is there forever.

At that point playing the game = playing Dota, LoL, hots, csgo .. insert any sweatfest PVP game where after a match you question why are you even playing that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

Edit
People, I admit that everyone here is a god gamer who is better than me in HD2.
I unirnocially admit that I do suck at this game.
Now people, write me an argument why my 60 euros are worse than yours and why I cant get all ship upgrades than you?

[DarkFenix]

"Mathematically impossible", funny guy.

I like the fact that difficulty 7+ is forced, players are actually required to learn how to play the game to a rudimentary level. Yes, bile titans exist on difficulty 7, and there are something like... eight...? different weapons that are what I'd call "highly effective" against them, plus another maybe 2-3 that are at least half-decent.

Calling bile titans/chargers a "forced meta" is like saying guns are a forced meta because the game contains enemies you need to shoot. They're one of the game's obstacles, you are required to learn how to deal with them.

[Simka]

Originally posted by TravoltinoSK:

In DRG difficulty modifier increase the amount of resources, BUT you can get ALL resource types in any mission.
In HD2.
If I want a mandatory upgrade for sentry with +50% HP that it doesnt die to having its paint scratched.
Or the one that makes it waste 80% less ammo as it turns to its target in normal time, instead of shooting at the wall with turn speed of Russian KV2.

Iam forced to play RNG HEAVY 7+ difficulties where a run is either completely normal or mathematically impossible to win ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
A bile titan forces a meta, either you take the orbital/500(and land it PERFECTLY)/autocannon turret/railgun (sometimes taking ez 15 overcharged shots lol) or that titan is there forever.

At that point playing the game = playing Dota, LoL, hots, csgo .. insert any sweatfest PVP game where after a match you question why are you even playing that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

solution: play DRG instead? Yes titans require anti-armor options. You gotta work for your samples. Just bc this game dosn't appeal to you in that regard means it's inherently bad design. If you don't want to run difficult missions, you don't nessecary need the upgrades. If you are not willing to put the effort into getting them, that is more of a you problem.

[Kaggy]

Originally posted by TravoltinoSK:

In DRG difficulty modifier increase the amount of resources, BUT you can get ALL resource types in any mission.
In HD2.
If I want a mandatory upgrade for sentry with +50% HP that it doesnt die to having its paint scratched.
Or the one that makes it waste 80% less ammo as it turns to its target in normal time, instead of shooting at the wall with turn speed of Russian KV2.

Iam forced to play RNG HEAVY 7+ difficulties where a run is either completely normal or mathematically impossible to win ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
A bile titan forces a meta, either you take the orbital/500(and land it PERFECTLY)/autocannon turret/railgun (sometimes taking ez 15 overcharged shots lol) or that titan is there forever.

At that point playing the game = playing Dota, LoL, hots, csgo .. insert any sweatfest PVP game where after a match you question why are you even playing that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

why are we getting so many nonsense posts lately?
like this one...

[AngryBeaver316]

I honestly would like not getting dumped in 8945634857 bug bukkake when i land. Or even when I avoid action, I somehow still get swarmed because the spawns are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Ive being running every conceivable thing I can at my current level. And at the end of the day Im getting Eiffel towered. I dont even wanna hear some skill issue nonsense because Ive seen better players then me say the same things around here and elsewhere.

[TravoltinoSK]

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

"Mathematically impossible", funny guy.

"highly effective"

Eat has 2 shots, they dont kill
Recoiless has less dmg + backpack (lol)
Autocannon ^ same
Laser lol no
Flamer? Lol no
Machine guns? not worth mentioning
Javelin? Locking works 50/50 10% of the time
Arc? Lol no
Grenade launcher? No

There is ONE weapon that can deal with them, that has no drawback as - EAT with them just not being enough or taking a VITAL backpack slot
And that is Railgun.

There are several stratagems that kill or heavily damage the Bile Titan, problem is
There are MORE of them than your +100% fly in time +50% Cooldown Stratagems :)

Helldivers 2 by design is a game of downward spiral.
Reinforcement loops, dying and waiting 2+ min to get your ESSENTIAL gear back, limited respawn tickets (no downed state), oneshots and million other things.
Bile titans are a cheery on top since they are THE ONLY enemy that REQUIRES a specific loadout.
ALL robots have a weakspot and even the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ charger can be killed by destorying its ass.
Bile Titan and 13 of his friends are there to stay :)

[Omnipresent Oatmeal]

Originally posted by TravoltinoSK:

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

"Mathematically impossible", funny guy.

"highly effective"

Eat has 2 shots, they dont kill

If you miss both the head (facing you, probably) and the front legs (also facing you, probably), then yeah, the EAT will suck.

[TravoltinoSK]

As I knew this would dissolve into "git gud"
Point ladies and gentlemen is simple.
Game has a progression system - game locks that progression system behind difficulty which many people find not fun.
Its absolutely the same as if the medals or supercredits started spawning on 7+
The samples are not as egregious, but it is the same thing

The elite players who mastered the game can still play the game on difficulty which challenged them
And other scrubs casuals (who are overwhelming majority as is true with any game) can play on theirs and still unlock all the game has to offer

[TravoltinoSK]

Originally posted by Omnipresent Oatmeal:

Originally posted by TravoltinoSK:

Eat has 2 shots, they dont kill

If you miss both the head (facing you, probably) and the front legs (also facing you, probably), then yeah, the EAT will suck.

BIle titan, not the charger :)

[Zoopshab]

I absolutely agree with you.

I think a big problem is that it implies that "the intended way" to play the game is on the hardest difficulty. Or that there is some kind of progression involved in moving up to the higher difficulties.

If you played the first game, one thing you would notice about difficulty 15 is that it didn't actually feel like they tried to balance it. Like there wasn't a whole lot of design intent that went into it, rather "let's throw 100's enemies of the biggest size we can at the player". At some point the only tool a Game Master has to make it more difficult for the player is just to throw more enemies at the player.

It was also a big mistake to put Super Samples at those difficulties for the same reason of it implies you SHOULD be playing at those difficulties.

The fact that people are complaining "well how are we supposed to play difficulty 9 with that nerf?!" is just a perception problem. All they needed to do was say "the named difficulties go up to 6, that's where we balanced the game... and then higher difficulties than that are 6+1, 6+2, 6+3, and we just start throwing more and more enemies at you we don't have a plan there. Those difficulties don't have names, it's just player choice there's nothing special to be gained from those difficulties".

As you get to the highest difficulty, almost any game reduces to a narrow meta. Because you start to force the player to rely on cheese strategies. In the first game higher difficulty would be impossible if it weren't for the Rumbler.

[Solardream]

Aye, this is the only problem I have with this game.
Locking the damn Super Rare's required to upgrade your Destroyer, behind level 7+ missions.: It's horrible.
They should be available at lower difficulty settings, and/or have an exchange rate for the lower level samples. People have already mentioned better ways to implement it as such, on this thread.
I really hope the devs decide to change this, as it's a trivial thing and will keep players playing longer, (especially newer ones, as time goes by) rather than get frustrated, with the current implementation.

[DarkFenix]

Originally posted by TravoltinoSK:

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

"Mathematically impossible", funny guy.

"highly effective"

Eat has 2 shots, they dont kill
Recoiless has less dmg + backpack (lol)
Autocannon ^ same
Laser lol no
Flamer? Lol no
Machine guns? not worth mentioning
Javelin? Locking works 50/50 10% of the time
Arc? Lol no
Grenade launcher? No

There is ONE weapon that can deal with them, that has no drawback as - EAT with them just not being enough or taking a VITAL backpack slot
And that is Railgun.

There are several stratagems that kill or heavily damage the Bile Titan, problem is
There are MORE of them than your +100% fly in time +50% Cooldown Stratagems :)

Helldivers 2 by design is a game of downward spiral.
Reinforcement loops, dying and waiting 2+ min to get your ESSENTIAL gear back, limited respawn tickets (no downed state), oneshots and million other things.
Bile titans are a cheery on top since they are THE ONLY enemy that REQUIRES a specific loadout.
ALL robots have a weakspot and even the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ charger can be killed by destorying its ass.
Bile Titan and 13 of his friends are there to stay :)

EAT has 2 shots, which will kill a bile titan with accurate headshots.
Recoilless does the same.
Spear will kill in a single headshot if you get the angle, or two shots otherwise.
Autocannon sentry will annihilate a bile titan if you place it where it won't die instantly.
Railcannon strike will take almost the entirety of one's health.
500kg bomb is buggy, but can and will one shot a bile titan.
110mm rocket pods won't one shot, but do big damage and you get multiple charges.
Exosuit, two rockets to the face, easy kill.

Eight different options. The half-decent ones are railgun, orbital laser, eagle airstrike, and precision strike (so four I suppose, not like I was thinking too deeply before). If you're packing stun grenades I'd even elevate the precision strike to a highly effective option, it's hard to land accurately but it does do a crapload of damage.

You need to learn how to deal with bile titans, there are a multitude of options, you just have to actually use them.

[Simka]

Originally posted by TravoltinoSK:

Game has a progression system - game locks that progression system behind difficulty which many people find not fun.

ever thought that it's to encourage players to learn the game propperly, challenge themself and get into higher dif? If you struggle, don't enjoy higher diff and stick to lower, the upgrades you are missing out are not that big of a deal. So what is the point? That people who would love to get to play with new people on higher dif get less chance for that?
That is also not fun for many.

[Feyd]

Originally posted by Simka:

Originally posted by TravoltinoSK:

Game has a progression system - game locks that progression system behind difficulty which many people find not fun.

ever thought that it's to encourage players to learn the game propperly, challenge themself and get into higher dif? If you struggle, don't enjoy higher diff and stick to lower, the upgrades you are missing out are not that big of a deal. So what is the point? That people who would love to get to play with new people on higher dif get less chance for that?
That is also not fun for many.

Ever thought that it's a video game and people have real lives that have real challenges and would rather have fun and relax with their hobby? No one is saying you can't play Helldive. Go nuts. The only change being asked for is for people to be able to finish all the progression while enjoying the game at a difficulty that they might find fun. In fact, this requested change fixes a lot of the posts from toxic D-bags mad about people that aren't up to the challenge being in the harder difficulties. This is what you call win-win.

[TravoltinoSK]

EAT has 2 shots, which will kill a bile titan with accurate headshots.
Recoilless does the same.
Spear will kill in a single headshot if you get the angle, or two shots otherwise.
Autocannon sentry will annihilate a bile titan if you place it where it won't die instantly.
Railcannon strike will take almost the entirety of one's health.
500kg bomb is buggy, but can and will one shot a bile titan.
110mm rocket pods won't one shot, but do big damage and you get multiple charges.
Exosuit, two rockets to the face, easy kill.

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

Originally posted by TravoltinoSK:

Eat has 2 shots, they dont kill
Recoiless has less dmg + backpack (lol)
Autocannon ^ same
Laser lol no
Flamer? Lol no
Machine guns? not worth mentioning
Javelin? Locking works 50/50 10% of the time
Arc? Lol no
Grenade launcher? No

There is ONE weapon that can deal with them, that has no drawback as - EAT with them just not being enough or taking a VITAL backpack slot
And that is Railgun.

There are several stratagems that kill or heavily damage the Bile Titan, problem is
There are MORE of them than your +100% fly in time +50% Cooldown Stratagems :)

Helldivers 2 by design is a game of downward spiral.
Reinforcement loops, dying and waiting 2+ min to get your ESSENTIAL gear back, limited respawn tickets (no downed state), oneshots and million other things.
Bile titans are a cheery on top since they are THE ONLY enemy that REQUIRES a specific loadout.
ALL robots have a weakspot and even the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ charger can be killed by destorying its ass.
Bile Titan and 13 of his friends are there to stay :)

EAT has 2 shots, which will kill a bile titan with accurate headshots.
Recoilless does the same.
Spear will kill in a single headshot if you get the angle, or two shots otherwise.
Autocannon sentry will annihilate a bile titan if you place it where it won't die instantly.
Railcannon strike will take almost the entirety of one's health.
500kg bomb is buggy, but can and will one shot a bile titan.
110mm rocket pods won't one shot, but do big damage and you get multiple charges.
Exosuit, two rockets to the face, easy kill.

Eight different options. The half-decent ones are railgun, orbital laser, eagle airstrike, and precision strike (so four I suppose, not like I was thinking too deeply before). If you're packing stun grenades I'd even elevate the precision strike to a highly effective option, it's hard to land accurately but it does do a crapload of damage.

You need to learn how to deal with bile titans, there are a multitude of options, you just have to actually use them.

I used all of them an not one of these solve the 14+ bile titans
As I said before its a game of downward spiral.

You throw a autocannon sentry on a perfectly flat surface -> it bounces -> it dies
Welcome to 2+ mins of not being to harm the titan

EAT - you shoot perfectly, it decides to move in the last second (rng), you miss, you deal a fraction of the damage

TLDR, of all options only orbital railcannon is CONSISTENT (and even THAT one I seen focus on a broodlord instead a bile titan a meter away from it), and that is on 3+ min cooldown.
Iam NOT saying they cant be deal with, I too have done the amazingly fun **Kite forever** strategy as you run around and wait for cooldowns.
IF some people consider that fun, more power to them.
Unironically, if you like that as it makes you feel overwhelmed and immersed enjoy it

I like to shoot and kill things, use jetpack to get on a high ground and use that to my advantage.
But a successful 7+ has on the end screen ~ 90 enemies killed per player
And a 5 has 500+ on each

I know which one I liked WAY more, however the devs says "nono, kiting is meta and if you want progress kite or ♥♥♥♥ off"

[Anarchy]

Originally posted by TravoltinoSK:

Originally posted by Omnipresent Oatmeal:

If you miss both the head (facing you, probably) and the front legs (also facing you, probably), then yeah, the EAT will suck.

BIle titan, not the charger :)

Yeah, hit the head.
Lol
Skill issue.