P-19 Redeemer needs nerfed

[Nani Sore]

I am able to run away infinitely while shooting behind me one handed and two tapping hunters with a mag capacity of 31 and a fast reload while on the move. This is trivializing the 40+ hunter hordes that are supposedly replacing chargers and bile titans.

[asura]

Originally posted by Hand's Hermit Permit:

Originally posted by asura:

We're all LARPing being good players apparently. :)

OP's not wrong, though. Put it in semiautomatic mode and just kite everything. You can't do that with any other weapon.

You can do it with the Defender primary, but there's no situation in which you're using any other pistol besides redeemer anyway so it's kinda redundant.

I believe (I could be wrong) the redeemer still does more damage, no? I feel like it does.

[Queltis]

Originally posted by asura:

There are better primary weapons. At the time of unlocking the redeemer and for the rest of the game, no one chooses anything except the redeemer.

Because the redeemer is the only non-premium secondary upgrade people have access to, and the 2 premium secondary guns are pretty terrible due to 1) slow reloads/poor ammo economy and 2) terrible output.

Want to kill a berserker? Great - use a slugger on its head. But most people aren't doing that - they're clearing all of those with a redeemer. Want to kill a bile spewer? Redeemer. Kill a charger with leg meta? Redeemer. Want to kite everything on the map oneshotting everything firing behind you (OP's point)? Redeemer in semiautomatic.

A redeemer doesn't have the ammo capacity to handle everything chasing you on any difficulty higher than 3, because brood commanders and bots call in reinforcements faster than you can kill them with a gun that has no armour penetration.

And no, most players are not burning entire magazines of ammo on one enemy just because they have a redeemer. They're using the much better primary guns and resorting to the redeemer as an emergency weapon.

The redeemer is far stronger than the starting pistol.

The redeemer has the same damage output per shot that the starter weapon does. The core difference is it has 31 bullets per clip instead of 15.

They're worthless or not worthless? I'm pretty sure you just said the SMGs were better. Schrodinger's SMG over here, I guess.

What is this in response to?

You can literally run the thing as a primary. Try it.

And you can get through some missions using no guns at all. Guess it's time to nerf running.

[Nobody watches your TTV]

It does need nerf.
rate of fire should be reduced

[Guardian_Angel]

Originally posted by asura:

Then the youtubers are wrong.

I mean, true? Youtubers are there to feed off of the game's hype and post regurgitated newsbreaks for people that can't bother to read the game's update notes.

Originally posted by asura:

The point being that if I whiff the headshot with the EAT the redeemer actually works better than primaries....

If you whiff a shot with a rocket launcher, you'll be hitting the edge of the head or the upper torso in 10 of 10 cases. If you somehow hit a leg while aiming for the head, then you weren't aiming for the head.

And, again, the most used primaries in the game kill a charger through the broken leg much faster than the redeemer.

Originally posted by asura:

The simple logic is that the example given was not the optimal way to kill a charger and neither is the way you suggest of popping the butt that is a completely fake weakspot.

Popping a charger's back is not 'optimal', but effective when used with certain weapons. It's also a real in-game situation, that can happen at any time when you don't have immediate access to the 'optimal' way of killing a charger. The situation you're describing is theorycraft.

Originally posted by asura:

Put it in semi automatic and fire over your shoulder. You'll see.

If you use redeemer in semi-automatic mode while hipfiring, then it's just a quality-of-life improvement over the starter pistol. Good, but nothing to write home about.

[asura]

Originally posted by Queltis:

The redeemer has the same damage output per shot that the starter weapon does. The core difference is it has 31 bullets per clip instead of 15.

31 > 15
Stronger

Originally posted by Queltis:

And you can get through some missions using no guns at all. Guess it's time to nerf running.

Brilliant. Great idea. In fact, let's just eliminate all ways there are to win. Cool guy whataboutism exaggerations be damned, let's just ask if we can get the anticheat to stop the game from starting. Maybe the ultimate power move is to just throw the PC out of the window. Logically, it tracks.

Originally posted by Guardian_Angel:

Popping a charger's back is not 'optimal', but effective when used with certain weapons. It's also a real in-game situation, that can happen at any time when you don't have immediate access to the 'optimal' way of killing a charger. The situation you're describing is theorycraft.

You're right. You are theory crafting.
Even at the hardest difficulty you can spawn EATs every minute. If your aim is good that's 3 chargers per minute with no secondary or primary or (other) support weapon fire. If you miss and hit a leg instead, a real game scenario, you can just finish it off with the redeemer.

Originally posted by asura:

Put it in semi automatic and fire over your shoulder. You'll see.

If you use redeemer in semi-automatic mode while hipfiring, then it's just a quality-of-life improvement over the starter pistol. Good, but nothing to write home about. [/quote]

As illustrated by someone else, 31 in the magazine. To OP's point you can just kite and hip fire with a lot of mileage from the redeemer. Try it.

[Queltis]

Originally posted by asura:

31 > 15
Stronger

I never denied that it was better than the starter pistol. In fact I specifically stated it was a direct upgrade to it.

Brilliant. Great idea. In fact, let's just eliminate all ways there are to win. Cool guy whataboutism exaggerations be damned, let's just ask if we can get the anticheat to stop the game from starting. Maybe the ultimate power move is to just throw the PC out of the window. Logically, it tracks.

I don't know why you're getting your ass in a twitch over me pointing out the absurdity of your own position.

[asura]

Originally posted by Queltis:

I don't know why you're getting your ass in a twitch over me pointing out the absurdity of your own position.

I'm not. If my position is absurd then your statement is absolutely unnecessary and completely ridiculous. So we exaggerated it even more for you since that's where you wanted to go with it.

Originally posted by Guardian_Angel:

Originally posted by asura:

Then the youtubers are wrong.

I mean, true? Youtubers are there to feed off of the game's hype and post regurgitated newsbreaks for people that can't bother to read the game's update notes.

The irony here is I don't think this change was even in the patch notes.
The YouTubers that are clearly feeding off of hype and failing to read patch notes were basing the experiments on this tweet:
https://twitter.com/Pilestedt/status/1756445973964832778?s=20

The "Concussive" was renamed 2 weeks later, I think, and without being in the actual patch notes.

[Queltis]

Originally posted by asura:

If my position is absurd then your statement is absolutely unnecessary and completely ridiculous.

You argued "You can complete a mission using this gun, therefore that is proof it's broken."

I was pointing out why your logic doesn't pan out. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean that "something" is optimal gameplay or in any way broken.

[Bryan Fury]

Originally posted by Dark Abyss:

I am able to run away infinitely while shooting behind me one handed and two tapping hunters with a mag capacity of 31 and a fast reload while on the move. This is trivializing the 40+ hunter hordes that are supposedly replacing chargers and bile titans.

Shut up clown.

[Guardian_Angel]

Originally posted by asura:

You're right. You are theory crafting.
Even at the hardest difficulty you can spawn EATs every minute. If your aim is good that's 3 chargers per minute with no secondary or primary or (other) support weapon fire. If you miss and hit a leg instead, a real game scenario, you can just finish it off with the redeemer.

I wish you luck spawning EAT every minute with +50% cooldowns and +100% call-down times, to kill 6 chargers and 3 bile titans that are on your screen constantly at difficulty 9.
I mean it, since you are somehow so awful at headshots that your rockets end up hitting the legs.

Originally posted by asura:

As illustrated by someone else, 31 in the magazine. To OP's point you can just kite and hip fire with a lot of mileage from the redeemer. Try it.

Everyone and their mothers know that redeemer has more ammo per mag than the starter pistol. Make your point already.

[Shining_Darkness]

As others have said, it has 4 mags, it does such high damage because it doesn't have much ammo and blows through an entire mag in one second.

[asura]

Originally posted by Guardian_Angel:

I wish you luck spawning EAT every minute with +50% cooldowns and +100% call-down times, to kill 6 chargers and 3 bile titans that are on your screen constantly at difficulty 9.
I mean it, since you are somehow so awful at headshots that your rockets end up hitting the legs.

You answered your own question, theorycrafter. Check the stats on the EAT.

Originally posted by Queltis:

You argued "You can complete a mission using this gun, therefore that is proof it's broken."

I was pointing out why your logic doesn't pan out. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean that "something" is optimal gameplay or in any way broken.

You can win the game by tossing the PC out of the window, therefore modern physics are broken.

You made a bad exaggeration. There was no edge case where you are doing anything special at all other than playing normally, with the exception of only using the redeemer, where the redeemer isn't just as usable as most primaries.

It's just overtuned. You can disagree and defend it but it just is. If you don't like it then you can stop inventing scenarios like removing walking from the game or claiming 6 bile titans somehow invalidate that you can kite all the adds and hipefire behind you.

[Guardian_Angel]

Originally posted by asura:

You answered your own question, theorycrafter. Check the stats on the EAT.

I haven't asked a single question thus far.

[Queltis]

Originally posted by asura:

t's just overtuned. You can disagree and defend it but it just is.

Your inability to provide any supporting evidence to justify this position beyond "It's popular", when its popularity is easily being explained by it being the only non-premium upgrade to the baseline secondary, and "Stuff dies if I shoot it enough" makes your declaration less than convincing.

Again, the scenario described by the OP, which is them running and gunning down everything solo with nothing but the redeemer, isn't going to happen outside of D2 or D3 missions. D4+ missions the add spawns quickly exceed the redeemer's ammo capacity, and the weapon doesn't work on anything more armoured than a bile spewer.

[Chaos]

Nah, it's the other sidearm AND the other "primary" that somehow ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ than a good sidearm needed to buffed and it's wouldn't even be considered a powercreep, since those "gun" are so poorly design most people would rather not use it in the first place.