P-19 Redeemer needs nerfed

[Nani Sore]

I am able to run away infinitely while shooting behind me one handed and two tapping hunters with a mag capacity of 31 and a fast reload while on the move. This is trivializing the 40+ hunter hordes that are supposedly replacing chargers and bile titans.

[asura]

Originally posted by Queltis:

And you've provided nothing to justify that belief. At least with the people whinging about the arc thrower they attempt to point out its damage output vs the pre-nerf rail gun.

I have jumped through every ridiculous hoop you all have presented. The Redeemer functionally works just as well as a primary. That's not correct.

You all, in turn, shouted things like you have to use a redeemer when using a slugger versus bugs. That's bananas. It's wrong. A second person came in here to tell you the same thing - that's a weird set up and you're hamstringing yourself.

Originally posted by Queltis:

If people have a slow/low ammo primary they're going to be using their secondary for trash. That's the point of having multiple guns on you; to cover holes in your response capability.

Argue with the other dude because you can't understand. I'm really sorry that you cannot understand. You've answered part of your own problem, though: you do have multiple guns. Guns on the floor. Support guns. Primaries. You have 3 options there without relying on the redeemer.

Originally posted by Queltis:

I was one of the people explaining to you that the redeemer isn't going to get used the way you insist it is being used past D3.

Then you simply do not care if it is nerfed because it's as irrelevant to you as it is to me and the other person.

That's 3 of us now saying it's redundant and no one should even notice if it was nerfed.
I still say that it should be nerfed because it's just as good as a primary.

Originally posted by Queltis:

Or its because their load out is built for anti-armour/power with their squad being built for crowd clearing.

You do remember that this is a squad based game, right?

Then your squad should be clearing adds and not you because your downtime clearing adds with a pistol is a negative. Let me say that clearer: If you zipzip bangbang the Redeemer you cannot boomboom powpow the recoillless or whatever else you want to use.

Originally posted by Queltis:

You need new material. You've gone to this well 4 times in the same post, and it's as delusion this time as it was the first three times you said it.

I am really sorry that you all keep begging for someone to tell you that the redeemer is as important as you think it is - but it's not.

Originally posted by Daliena:

Anyone who runs other builds, more power to you if you enjoy it, but I've found that this is what works for me. Redeemer or Rover is just the clincher to help me deal with small bugs, and I'm done talking to a moron who would rather that the secondary weapon category be just removed entirely from the game for no reason other than shiggles.

I hope this is true. One less person that makes wild exaggerations about nonsensical scenarios would be great.

Yes, obviously I want all of the secondaries remove. That's definitely something that was indicated or said here. That's not some insane delusional nonsense from someone salty about having to crutch a redeemer and a rover...... and then explain to people that they're actually really good at the game but still need a redeemer and a rover......

[Queltis]

Originally posted by asura:

I have jumped through every ridiculous hoop you all have presented. The Redeemer functionally works just as well as a primary.

The only content where that is true is meaningless. You don't balance weapons around its viability in the weakest content in the game. That's a recipe for disaster.

You all, in turn, shouted things like you have to use a redeemer when using a slugger versus bugs. That's bananas. It's wrong. A second person came in here to tell you the same thing - that's a weird set up and you're hamstringing yourself.

I don't run a slugger. That's a different person.

Argue with the other dude because you can't understand. I'm really sorry that you cannot understand. You've answered part of your own problem, though: you do have multiple guns. Guns on the floor. Support guns. Primaries. You have 3 options there without relying on the redeemer.

2. Wasting a stratagem slot on a weapon you're not going to use is just wasteful, especially when you're dealing with either increased CD timers or reduced stratagem access. This is why squad members are a thing.

I still say that it should be nerfed because it's just as good as a primary.

Repeating an incorrect statement isn't going to stop it from being incorrect.

Then your squad should be clearing adds and not you because your downtime clearing adds with a pistol is a negative. Let me say that clearer: If you zipzip bangbang the Redeemer you cannot boomboom powpow the recoillless or whatever else you want to use.

Helping with mop up isn't a negative. The faster things die the faster you can get back on the move before a new patrol enters the area. If all that's left are small fry then you're not going to slow roll that with the slugger.

I am really sorry that you all keep begging for someone to tell you that the redeemer is as important as you think it is - but it's not.

You are definitely trolling. You can not possibly read the multitude of times that it has been stated that the gun does not work the way you keep claiming it works beyond D3 content and still come to the conclusion that I think the redeemer is in any way important.

It's a gun that works as filler in a pinch. That's it. It doesn't make it important, but it also doesn't mean it merits a nerf just because you have a scrib up your bum about other people using it more than you like.

[Hearts]

I honestly love that bugs are weak to things like the spray and pray and machine guns now, it lets you vary your builds from time to time and provides an incentive to let your team know you're going to build for crowd control and become a human fly swatter.

[asura]

Originally posted by Queltis:

Originally posted by asura:

I have jumped through every ridiculous hoop you all have presented. The Redeemer functionally works just as well as a primary.

The only content where that is true is meaningless. You don't balance weapons around its viability in the weakest content in the game. That's a recipe for disaster.

If you can't run a d6+ with only a redeemer and a support weapon then you've missed a core concept. This isn't the weakest content. D9 could be a struggle, but D6 is absolutely doable.

Originally posted by Queltis:

You all, in turn, shouted things like you have to use a redeemer when using a slugger versus bugs. That's bananas. It's wrong. A second person came in here to tell you the same thing - that's a weird set up and you're hamstringing yourself.

I don't run a slugger. That's a different person.

Didn't say you did. Try again.

Originally posted by Queltis:

2. Wasting a stratagem slot on a weapon you're not going to use is just wasteful, especially when you're dealing with either increased CD timers or reduced stratagem access. This is why squad members are a thing.

Literally I litter every map with EATs. Anyone at any time can grab them. I can still use a separate support weapon or an EAT myself. It's really easy to follow why this is pretty strong.

Originally posted by Queltis:

I still say that it should be nerfed because it's just as good as a primary.

Repeating an incorrect statement isn't going to stop it from being incorrect.

Repeating that I still say something? I say it should be nerfed because it's as good as a primary. It's a fact I said that. Repeating that I said that should be clear that I said that. You can say that my saying that I said something is incorrect, but that's nonsensical.

Originally posted by Queltis:

You are definitely trolling. You can not possibly read the multitude of times that it has been stated that the gun does not work the way you keep claiming it works beyond D3 content and still come to the conclusion that I think the redeemer is in any way important.

It a absolutely does work the same way beyond D3. Do you think anything above D3 has somehow more powerful hunters? That's not true. So, yes, quite obviously, it would work the same.

Originally posted by Queltis:

It's a gun that works as filler in a pinch. That's it. It doesn't make it important, but it also doesn't mean it merits a nerf just because you have a scrib up your bum about other people using it more than you like.

It could take a nerf. If you think it's so trivial then you don't mind it taking a nerf so all of your arguing is literally just trolling.... the realization is hopefully real there.

I'm just really sorry that you're having this much trouble with the game in general.

[Jackie Daytona]

Originally posted by Fluffy Monster Thing:

Originally posted by asura:

Perfect. Then I think you realized the mistake. The Redeemer outperforms the primary that is made for armor piercing on a thing that has an armored face.
I hope we can move past your mistake gracefully.

(nobody ever consider the perpetrator good.)

i used it and it was pretty effective needs full auto mode and a mag increase, the one in the OG game was full auto not sure why this one is burst? The SMGs are very good better than most weapons which is absurd imo.

[Katitoff]

How long you think railgun meta slaves will cope until they finally quit the game?

[Anarchy]

You say this, but I do the same thing with the starting pistol because I just prefer the look of it over the Mac-11 style

Lmao.

[Guardian_Angel]

Originally posted by Queltis:

-snip-

Do something better with your time. This troll has been going about in circles for a while now, let him fester in his squalor.

[JimmyD]

Originally posted by Daliena:

Not that I desire to engage with him, but I actually don't use the Redeemer a ton. I have a Rover to genocide small bugs for me, Slugger to clear out anything Warrior-sized or larger up to Brood Commanders, and EATs for the heavies.

I use the Redeemer as a last stand weapon, which I am sure 95% of players also do. It's literally called the Redeemer. It's designed to mesh with a high DPS/low fire rate primary so that if you get into a tight spot with something like a Slugger or Dominator, you can clear your immediate area and buy some time to get to safety or reload something else.

I don't understand where this asura clown gets their time and energy from but for all the manufactured arguments they've come up with about the Redeemr they've left out its major drawbacks, being accuracy beyond 15m and ammo capacity. You get four mags that evaporate under full auto and as a semi it's only useful against small bugs that aren't on top of you (I still don't udnerstand the argument "people main the redeemer"... lol how? earning the pistol only achievement was hard enough on D5 with a full crew.. we were calling in orbitals and supply drops ASAP the entire map and even then it took us 4 tries).

They're also autisticly screeching about something the devs said involving way too many mental gymnastics re: pri/sec/sup weapon roles... I (and I'm certain most others) PRIMARILY use my PRIMARY weapon, SUPPORT my PRIMARY with my SUPPORT WEAPON, and fall back to my SECONDARY weapon when I am out of ammo for either of the former as it's faster than reloading (inb4 asura the clown uses that as a gotcha "you admitted that your secondary is not your second choice therefore my completely fabricated argument is valid for some reason").

Originally posted by Hearts:

Or give the Senator a speed loader and the basic pistol more damage. you know, so they compete.

I love the idea of the senator. In its current form it should have waaay more damage and at least medium armor piercing. If it keeps light armor trait, then give it a speed loader and maybe more ammo.

The Peacemaker should be buffed to 17 rounds and be in between the SMG and Revolver for damage. The laser pistol I haven't tried yet but it's apparently not great.

Originally posted by Hearts:

I honestly love that bugs are weak to things like the spray and pray and machine guns now, it lets you vary your builds from time to time and provides an incentive to let your team know you're going to build for crowd control and become a human fly swatter.

I love being the crowd control guy. I get flak from randoms when I bring the Stalward or MG43 on higher difficulties but it's honestly so much fun to just mow down the fluff, while keeping your teammates with heavier, slower weapons clear and covered. This game does a really great job with hitbox feedback (i.e. watching chunks of bug/bot come flying off as you're making shots) and the bugs in particular SHOULD be super high volume swarms.

The lower tier bugs should absolutely be able to be taken down with 1-3 shots from a pistol, IMO.

Originally posted by Katitoff:

How long you think railgun meta slaves will cope until they finally quit the game?

Not soon enough :x

[K3NSAI]

OK boomer.

[break]

god forbid a secondary is half decent

[Sokaku]

The problem I see with weapon balance in HD2 is the apparent lack of damage fall-off and the general lack of opportunity to use ARs at moderately long range due to terrain and much more commonly, visibility. The game isn't structured for engagements like Squad where suppression is a huge factor in an engagement and connecting with a single bullet is for the most part win/lose. There you are engaging targets many hundreds of meters away, where ARs shine and sub-machine guns, shotguns, and pistols are useless. In situations where you are fighting enemies in closer proximity, SMGs, and pistols, provide a much less bulky option, and shotguns can provide considerably more punch. These factors are sadly lacking from HD2. Lots of cool looking/feeling weapons that really serve absolutely *NO* purpose within the game vs. other options. Everything just comes down to damage, rate of fire, and a basic "can it penetrate/bypass" armor check, at whatever range you might actually see a target. Almost all engagements come down to under 100m except opportunities to hit big targets like titans with a missile at long range. Most of the time against bugs I am playing watching red dots on the minimap and I cannot see them until they're well within my golden triangle, and even sometimes the terrain makes me doubt anything is there. It's fine for a bit of an "Alien's" vibe, but it's basically down to "why bother carrying anything but a shotgun?" Pretty much all combat is done within throwing distance. Against bots the only difference is that once you're detected you'll have searing red rays of death coming out from every direction. You cannot see half of them through the undergrowth/fog, and while an AR or MG can let you spray some suppressive lead back in their general direction, that really isn't an effective strategy as anything and everything nearby in all directions is bee-lining to your exact position.

Weapon selection comes down to "pick a combination that can hurt anything that you come across". Few weapons have any kind of range consideration, just the flamer, new plasma lobber, grenade launcher, and how far you can toss a grenade/strategem, though the game is highly weighted to keep engagements within that distance. Scopes are used for little more than pinpointing a weak-point.

[Nani Sore]

Hey guys I know it has been a while since I made this post, but seriously, is there any single person using a sidearm besides the P-19. They just released a laser pistol and it is utter trash. I really don't understand what the devs are trying to do. The P-19 needs a nerf. At best I should spend half a clip to kill a hunter but if we are comparing it to the laser pistol it should take multiple clips to kill one out of 40 hunters that are zerging my ass down.

[Silverlight]

Originally posted by Dark Abyss:

Hey guys I know it has been a while since I made this post, but seriously, is there any single person using a sidearm besides the P-19. They just released a laser pistol and it is utter trash. I really don't understand what the devs are trying to do. The P-19 needs a nerf. At best I should spend half a clip to kill a hunter but if we are comparing it to the laser pistol it should take multiple clips to kill one out of 40 hunters that are zerging my ass down.

Just release a .50 cal side arm that can i tap spewers

That would balance the redeemer immediately

[Nani Sore]

Originally posted by Silverlight:

Originally posted by Dark Abyss:

Hey guys I know it has been a while since I made this post, but seriously, is there any single person using a sidearm besides the P-19. They just released a laser pistol and it is utter trash. I really don't understand what the devs are trying to do. The P-19 needs a nerf. At best I should spend half a clip to kill a hunter but if we are comparing it to the laser pistol it should take multiple clips to kill one out of 40 hunters that are zerging my ass down.

Just release a .50 cal side arm that can i tap spewers

That would balance the redeemer immediately

As an avid user of the slugger I 100% support your post. I can lay off my calls for P-19 nerfs if I can get this slugger like sidearm that you speak of.