What was the point in letting enemy NPCs headshot players?

[Patryk Ocurra]

In pvp games headshots are a "skill expression" or just lucky shots from snapshots/hipfire BUT regardless there is some form of player input that equates to a rewarding mechanic for the shooter. In this game NPC enemies can get headshots on players for what reason exactly? Personally it's not fun to get headshot but this mechanic is dumb objectively because you randomly take a ♥♥♥♥ tonne of extra damage because an NPC got a random headshot on you and being a pve game there's no feeling of being fairly outplayed, just getting unlucky by being one shot by one of the 6 rocket devastators that dropped in front of you. This also makes heavy armor pretty weak as it's defenses are not reliable when taking damage to the head.

I don't wanna hear any "well getting hit in the head is pretty bad irl" like dude we have bullet proof helmets in irl and you bet that "scifitanium" or "videogamenoleum" can and should give my head the same defensive stats as my body ESPECIALLY in a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ pve game where there's no competitive pvp and therefore no need for headshots.

[Draescan]

引用自 Grimsdottir：

I'd love to know how you can even tell if its headshot damage being applied to you.

This has already been broken down and proven in a video. If you don't believe it just go into a game, find a lone scavenger, crouch and look straight down. Mother ♥♥♥♥♥♥ will almost 2 shot you because your head hitbox is as wide as your damn shoulders. Normal hits won't do this. It's not " crit " damage people are just coping.

[Patryk Ocurra]

引用自 Grimsdottir：

I'd love to know how you can even tell if its headshot damage being applied to you.

Well here are some obvious examples of them.

As for figuring out when it happens in game, I've played long enough to have a general idea of how much damage each attack does so when that attack suddenly deals massively more damage then I know I was headshot. 1 round from a basic bot doesn't do 45% of your hp unless it's a headshot. There may also be a unique sound effect but I think it's just the low HP sound which triggers at like 15% hp or something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntp6SJ58Lsk

[asura]

引用自 TurtleFart：

Yes sorry, I mean PvP instead of PvE. And seems like you are right in the case of New Vegas, but again, these can be mitigated or even cancelled with the right gear and/or perks (from what I am reading).

yeah I'm pretty sure that the armor in HD2 is still just in some weird broken state.

引用自 Grimsdottir：

I'd love to know how you can even tell if its headshot damage being applied to you.

When a single flea makes it up to you and you lose like 80% health.... kinda clear it's a critical. For bots you can outright see your/your teammate's head come off. If you were above 80% health and your head just came off in one shot... I mean... kinda obvious.

[Echo2Omega]

Are you secretly a charger?

Because this post sounds like something a charger would say.

Please report yourself to a democracy officer for execution or re-education.

Good day citizen

"Hammer of Justice"
Minister of Truth

[Rivethead]

引用自 TurtleFart：

At this point, dont bother with have 3 classes of armor and just make them give different perks. But now the realism in terms of mobility and agility is gone out of the window.

That Is something irritating me as well. I wouldn't mind reduced headshot damage from bugs (I'm enjoying getting instakilled by flying hunters as much as you) but honestly I'm not sure what could be done about it that would make the game better not just easier.

[IMD. Chiruzinho]

aaa

[Sola Di Ryuvia]

引用自 asura：

引用自 Majorita：

I mean, to be fair you're talking about one game with this feature, and it's a turn-based RPG that entirely revolves around strategy and having unlimited time to make your move. You also don't instantly die if your HP drops to 0, and you can be picked up immediately after if you get critted badly, just by someone healing you.

Doesn't matter. People were saying that headshots were skill expressions by NPCs.... and it's not the case. It's just a critical hit/critical fail example that shows that PVE games do, in fact, use critical hits/critical fails and they are not "skill expressions".

You can find other games like ones in the Fallout series for examples that aren't CRPG.

Funny that you mention it - Helldivers 1 had a "pick me up" mechanic that isn't here.

引用自 Majorita：

I've thought about it before but Helldivers 2 probably could have used a bleed-out mechanic, even if it was like pretty short, aggressive, or could be shortened by enemies attacking you or something,

It's in HD1.
You also have a chest wound/bleed mechanic in HD2 but probably not what you mean.

引用自 Patryk Ocurra：

This is not bg3. Random crits are bad. Arrowhead put so much effort into the armor that it literally didn't work for like 3 weeks.

tbh I still don't think the armor works remotely correctly.
But this is what Arrowhead gave us.

引用自 TurtleFart：

I honestly cannot think of a single single-player FPS/TPS that has headshot damage. Could you name one? Maybe there is but I genuinely cannot think of one at the moment.

Fallout. Not sure which ones in the series but at least one has head shot damage from NPCs to the player. Same for Elder Scrolls (technically these two games are the same engine so... same same). Any game where you take limb damage can be considered a critical in the same way that Helldivers implements it, so that includes stuff like Deus Ex, ARMA, DayZ, some of the CoDs, etc, etc, etc.

Technically anything Souls from From.

I want to say Lost Planet (which is a lot like this game) does, too, but I could be confusing it with the player critical.

But yeah, just because people don't like criticals or limb damage (including head) here doesn't mean they've never existed in any other PVE game ever in the history of ever. That's just wrong.

Souls is pvp. Arma is pvp. DayZ is pvp. They are balanced for headshot dmg from players to players.

[pi73r]

And on an9ther note. What's so wrong about getting headshored during a gunfight. When I got headshoted on my 1st day it was the moment I actually though that this game may be good.

[Patryk Ocurra]

引用自 Echo2Omega：

Are you secretly a charger?

Because this post sounds like something a charger would say.

Please report yourself to a democracy officer for execution or re-education.

Good day citizen

"Hammer of Justice"
Minister of Truth

"Hello officer, I was wondering if we could get helmets that protect us the same way our body armor protects us since everything is made out of sci-fitanium or videogamenoleum anyway?"

Sounds reasonable to me

[Patryk Ocurra]

引用自 pi73r：

And on an9ther note. What's so wrong about getting headshored during a gunfight. When I got headshoted on my 1st day it was the moment I actually though that this game may be good.

Because random crits from the ai suck, also it makes heavy armor even weaker than it already is.

[asura]

引用自 Sola Di Ryuvia：

Souls is pvp. Arma is pvp. DayZ is pvp. They are balanced for headshot dmg from players to players.

I'm not sure you've played these games. Souls is PVE with passive PVP. Have you played it?
If you count Elden Ring and Sekiro then you're really very wrong. Sekiro has critical hits that no player can do to you... for obvious reasons... so we're back at "skill expression" from a headless? Makes no sense.

DayZ has NPCs. Have you played this? DayZ started as an Arma mod which is why I included Arma - because the mods include the base engine which has the features described.

You have played these games, right?

Edit: Speaking of DayZ and zombies, Project Zomboid also has critical hits and ones that can lead to player permadeath (bites). So add another one to the list.

[Sola Di Ryuvia]

引用自 asura：

引用自 Sola Di Ryuvia：

Souls is pvp. Arma is pvp. DayZ is pvp. They are balanced for headshot dmg from players to players.

I'm not sure you've played these games. Souls is PVE with passive PVP. Have you played it?
If you count Elden Ring and Sekiro then you're really very wrong. Sekiro has critical hits that no player can do to you... for obvious reasons... so we're back at "skill expression" from a headless? Makes no sense.

DayZ has NPCs. Have you played this? DayZ started as an Arma mod which is why I included Arma - because the mods include the base engine which has the features described.

You have played these games, right?

Edit: Speaking of DayZ and zombies, Project Zomboid also has critical hits and ones that can lead to player permadeath (bites). So add another one to the list.

Bro really said darksouls invasions are passive when they are forced onto you
Another point unless you want to farm 100yrs of .01% drop rate items yeah its pvpve based. Good luck explaining how it isn't pvpve based when entire factions are dedicated to pvp items to level them and get those achivements. Entire factions revolve around helping others in pvp and even just jumping players who enter specific territory without their consent. Yeah "passive pvp". You are talking to a souls fanatic.

DayZ has pvp enabled. DayZ and arma are games where plays are known to fight against each other on large open fields. Arma can have npcs added for roleplay purposes or just pure pvp depending on server. It isn't hard to do either one.
DayZ has a mix its pvpve. Similar to rust but better less toxic.
Project Zomboid again can have pvp turned on. Literally in the options. Idk what you think you are explaining I'm trying to say they are intended for hardcore pvp headshots will happen from players. NPCs have similar but always ways to avoid. Souls literally armor and talismens and rings ignore or build def vs. Zomboid literally medical items simple as you'll live way longer if you collect medicine, skill issue i guess. But again zombies aren't the issue we are talking about. Its headshots specifically so null point.
DayZ and arma npcs with weapons emulate players so a shot that can HIT the head will do the same as a headshot from a player. Simply a bad moment to move can cause this hit that would have been a chest to be a head now because you crouched and it went into your face. Only time this is inaccurate is hitscan weapons with certain mods. Welcome to certain starwars/halo mods in Arma. That one with hitscan does fall under "well it wasn't skill just bad luck" which i agree with. Similar to jackle snipers from Halo. Just magic "yeah i win" card sometimes on legend.

You have played these games, right?

[capybaras are cool]

the point of player headshots is to disadvantage the player in a straight up fight. so then players will be more incentivized to use actual tactics like lures and ambushes instead of straight up fights.

[asura]

引用自 Sola Di Ryuvia：

Bro really said darksouls invasions are passive when they are forced onto you

Check it again. Darksouls, etc is passive multiplayer. See the bell maiden in Bloodborne.

A lot of people just run Dark Souls offline and even if they are online they don't invade.

引用自 Sola Di Ryuvia：

You are talking to a souls fanatic.

Perfect. Then you know exactly how it's a passive PVP game. The original Dark Souls even had a feature where casting spells on another player's shiny spot (whatever this was called) can amp up the spell. I never did much miracle casting so I don't know how useful this was.

Trophies and materials are not forced on you. That's something you choose to do.

引用自 Sola Di Ryuvia：

DayZ has a mix its pvpve. Similar to rust but better less toxic.

Exactly.

引用自 Sola Di Ryuvia：

Project Zomboid again can have pvp turned on. Literally in the options. Idk what you think you are explaining I'm trying to say they are intended for hardcore pvp headshots will happen from players. NPCs have similar but always ways to avoid. Souls literally armor and talismens and rings ignore or build def vs. Zomboid literally medical items simple as you'll live way longer if you collect medicine, skill issue i guess. But again zombies aren't the issue we are talking about. Its headshots specifically so null point.

Yes. It's pretty obvious there's a PVP toggle right in the game. But people here say that critical hits are a "skill expression" and aren't ever in PVE games - false. Zomboid has critical hits. It also has the zombie bite mechanic. There is no medicine for the zombie bite unless you've disabled that in custom world options - skill issue if you have.

引用自 Sola Di Ryuvia：

DayZ and arma npcs with weapons emulate players so a shot that can HIT the head will do the same as a headshot from a player. Simply a bad moment to move can cause this hit that would have been a chest to be a head now because you crouched and it went into your face.

.... which is the same thing that's happening in Helldivers 2. But people earlier in the thread said this wasn't an actual thing in any other game so.... I appreciate you clarifying that it's the same and validating why I brought it up.

引用自 Sola Di Ryuvia：

You have played these games, right?

I have. You're describing exactly why I brought them up, but you're confused about how a lot of people play these games. If you disable zombie bites in Project Zomboid then that's your own skill issue - it's still a type of critical hit based on RNG and not a "zombie skill expression". You highlighted how DayZ/ARMA mods work. I appreciate it.

At the end of the day all you've helped me do is validate that PVE games do, in fact, have critical hit mechanics that are not "player skill expression".

[Aradia Megido]

t0 kill y0u

this game likes killing y0u