So why is the Sickle so much better than the Scythe?

[Hand's Hermit Permit]

So the new laser primary in the warbond is the Las- 16 Sickle, and this thing's basically the Stalwart machine gun primary people have been wanting. Fast fire rate, good damage, low recoil, 6 heatsinks, and if you just don''t overheat them all, infinite ammo. It doesn't even look like a beam weapon, it just looks like it fires yellow tracer bullets, so it's just a better AR even for the weirdos that hate flashy fake sci-fi guns.

So it's great. But it makes me wonder... why isn't the Scythe like this? It's basically the same weapon, but it sucks more. What's the point? They handle almost exactly the same, they're even both yellow. The only thing I can think of is that the scythe cools off faster, so it's like more "efficient" with the heatsink. That doesn't matter though, just keep overheating the rifle until you're down to 1 heatsink if you want. People are always going to pick the gun that outputs more.

I was thinking they're going to make changes, so why not make the scythe do more limb damage? Beams should cut through things pretty easily. Disarm berserker bots more easily, cut the legs off the bugs (funny, in a psycho kinda way to watch them stumble around angry) The new sickle is more like traditional bullets -- they penetrate, not cut.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

Originally posted by Khloros:

I have said it before, and ill say it again, STOP judging the beam weapons at the moment. We still need to see what the illuminate look like. We know for a fact that illuminate use shields, so there is a very very good chance that beam weapons are going to be AMAZING against them.

So the reason as to "Why is the scythe not like the sickle" is because the Scythe is meant to be the answer to something we are not fighting yet.

It was dumb when you said it before, it's still dumb. We should judge the game on the state it's in, not some imaginary state it might or might not be in 6 months down the line.

The goalposts of 'git gud, tools at your disposal (or will be later)" is ever shifting, yes.

"Stop complaining about enemy armor! The mechs will be more powerful than mechagodzilla once they are added! Game clearly balanced around mechs!"
*pause for bad faith poster comedic effect*
"Now that mechs are here, you are a baby who hates realistic gameplay if you expected the described as heavy armor robots to survive stepping on an alien flower"

[Silverlight]

Don't forgot, data miners found weapon attachments.

Things like scopes will be modifiable. Maybe DMG stats too?

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by Silverlight:

Don't forgot, data miners found weapon attachments.

Things like scopes will be modifiable. Maybe DMG stats too?

Attachments won't matter if they still have misaligned scopes, enemies teleporting behind you regardless of stealth, and taking return fire skewing your aim.

Did you already forget the lesson of "Zero recoil on a beam does not mean it is an accurate weapon in combat"?

[Khloros]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

It was dumb when you said it before, it's still dumb. We should judge the game on the state it's in, not some imaginary state it might or might not be in 6 months down the line.

The goalposts of 'git gud, tools at your disposal (or will be later)" is ever shifting, yes.

"Stop complaining about enemy armor! The mechs will be more powerful than mechagodzilla once they are added! Game clearly balanced around mechs!"
*pause for bad faith poster comedic effect*
"Now that mechs are here, you are a baby who hates realistic gameplay if you expected the described as heavy armor robots to survive stepping on an alien flower"

Its not even goal post moving its just you are using a tool for the wrong job. the mech is a great example of that as well.

Mech is amazing vs bugs, and nothing can deliver the amount of fire power it can, and unless you get hit by a charger you did not see the things are damn near indestructable.
Against bots the thing sucks because a single rocket will break it. If you try and judge mech purely from your experiences with bots with it, you are going to think its awful, if you base it purely off of bugs it will be amazing.

Its a tool meant to do a specific job. Thats a theme that the developers of this game have shown to be something they intend to be a feature of weapons and statagems.

[Silverlight]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

Originally posted by Silverlight:

Don't forgot, data miners found weapon attachments.

Things like scopes will be modifiable. Maybe DMG stats too?

Attachments won't matter if they still have misaligned scopes, enemies teleporting behind you regardless of stealth, and taking return fire skewing your aim.

Did you already forget the lesson of "Zero recoil on a beam does not mean it is an accurate weapon in combat"?

I wear light armor and tend to stay mobile.

That stuff isn't as big of an issue for me.

[NeonRed]

The sycthe whenever I use it just feels like it needs a bit more firing time before overheat.

Also I feel like the laser drone has a higher damage sycthe than the player's.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by Silverlight:

Originally posted by ImHelping:

Attachments won't matter if they still have misaligned scopes, enemies teleporting behind you regardless of stealth, and taking return fire skewing your aim.

Did you already forget the lesson of "Zero recoil on a beam does not mean it is an accurate weapon in combat"?

I wear light armor and tend to stay mobile.

That stuff isn't as big of an issue for me.

Wearing light armor so you have more time to take multiple shots because your scope is wrong is just proving the point.

Sometimes I use the AMR in 3rd person which does not even have a crosshair to kill hulks, because it is more reliable to no-scope that ♥♥♥♥ than rely on the scope being correct.

Trying to present things as a skill issue, often proves that skill is not the problem. Maybe you just don't wany anyone else to be getting better at the game by admitting to them how it actually works?

Originally posted by NeonRed:

The sycthe whenever I use it just feels like it needs a bit more firing time before overheat.

Also I feel like the laser drone has a higher damage sycthe than the player's.

The real reason drone works great is because it can't suffer aim sway from return fire. It could deal 1/4 the damage of the player beam rifle and it would look "overpowered" by comparison just because using it does not involve gaslighting yourself poor performance is your fault instead of the game's.

Sure, I could drill holes in the faces of devastators with the beam rifle by treating it with more care than a marksman rifle.... Or I could use the defender SMG to get devastator multikills in a single mag while spamming dives.

See also: Fleeing from multiple stalkers. Guess which gun can let you kill as you escape, while the other lets you down if you fall for anyone telling you the beam rifle is worth it.

[Zeddy]

Originally posted by Khloros:

So the reason as to "Why is the scythe not like the sickle" is because the Scythe is meant to be the answer to something we are not fighting yet.

Then I have the second question of "Why is Scythe currently in the game when the point of using it isn't?"

Wouldn't it make more sense to add it at the same time or add the key after the keyhole like they did with mechs to charger spam?

[Moriarty!]

to op. read weapon description. read the line DPS.

[Cole]

Originally posted by asura:

I think the original intent of something like the Scythe was to build up heat damage over time that would... I dunno... maybe slow down robots or something? It works on anything with an exposed vent including turrets, iirc.

It just doesn't seem to work right. You would assume the beam would do progressively more damage while it's hitting the same target but it seems to have a normal tick. You would think it would progressively build up more and more heat.

How it should work per tick: +5 +10 +15 +25 +50 +75
How it seems to work: +5 +5 +5 +5 +5

Technically, and unfortunately, the scythe does more damage on initial impact. So it's more like +15+5 +5 +5 +5. Feels terrible, especially since the most effective way to use it is to spam short bursts for that initial hit damage. I think it needs a rework. I like your suggestion of building up damage. I also wouldn't mind if they kept the damage low but made the scythe lower the armor value of enemies, maybe by 1. Essentially it would become a support weapon where you laser the target you want your team to focus. Charger, bile? beam that head and let your autocannon buddy go ham.

[Valhalla Awaits]

Originally posted by sgt.longbow:

i feel all the lazer weapons need a rework. but the scythe will likely get nerfed.

You mean the sickle. The scythe sucks and is a bottom tier weapon with no damage that noone uses.

[sgt.longbow]

Originally posted by Silverlight:

The laser orbital is what the laser cannon should be.
The laser cannon is what the laser rifle should be
The laser rifle is what the laser pistol should be.
And I'm not kidding.

that about sums it up

[Anarchy]

the sickle is basically just a liberator with better ammo economy, more ROF, and basically no recoil

Anyone saying it's op or invalidates anything else is smoking crack.

(and the liberator is actually pretty good if you actually hit weakpoints lol)

[Katitoff]

Because against bugs, where 95% of players play, because they don't know how to use cover, damage and rapid fire are much more valuable than pinpoint accuracy and precision over longer distances.

It also has a nice, adjustable scope.
If Scythe had good scope, it would be much better weapon.

Originally posted by Moriarty!:

to op. read weapon description. read the line DPS.

Scythe will take commander bugs head faster than Sickle.

[Anarchy]

Originally posted by Katitoff:

Because against bugs, where 95% of players play, because they don't know how to use cover, damage and rapid fire are much more valuable than pinpoint accuracy and precision over longer distances.

It also has a nice, adjustable scope.
If Scythe had good scope, it would be much better weapon.

Originally posted by Moriarty!:

to op. read weapon description. read the line DPS.

Scythe will take commander bugs head faster than Sickle.

and?

Most things take off brood commanders heads, and it's honestly not the best place to shoot them anyways.