Fleshmobs on Trivial Difficulty, thoughts on balance for Newbies

[William Wallace]

Genuine question for the Helldivers team, are Fleshmobs meant to spawn at Trivial and Easy difficulties, or is that an oversight?

I'll preface this by saying they feel like a supercharged version of the brood commander, and I am here for that; the Illuminate need something tanky and scary, and as the low armour, volume of fire faction, having a low armour/high HP unit fits their playstyle perfectly. I personally think they should be a bit more responsive to damage (maybe bleed damage from destroying the heads, or losing charge ability from losing legs), as they feel a little boring to fight right now, but I strongly approve of the concept.

But my main issue with them is their inclusion in the lower difficulties disrupts the learning curve that other factions have, which was already precarious with Overseers (a Hive Guard/Dominator equivalent) appearing at Trivial too.

Trivial:
Bugs; Scavengers, Warriors, and Bile Spitters only in patrols and breeches, so newbies can learn crowd control on the main fodder, while learning about breeches and reinforcements.
Bots; Troopers, Brawlers, and Commissars only in patrols and drops, so newbies can learn to balance taking cover from lasers and tackling rushdowns, while also learning about bot drops.
Squids; Voteless, Watchers, Overseers, and Fleshmobs, well over half the squid arsenal, everything the illuminate have except Harvesters, Stingrays, and Overseer variants. This is too much too soon for new players trying to learn the ropes on the Illuminate. Should be Voteless and Watchers only, so newbies learn the ropes on crowd controlling Voteless while killing Watchers before they send a flare.

Easy:
Bugs; Hive Guards and Pouncers appear, teaching newbies about armoured enemies and fast enemies, building on their skills slowly.
Bots; Raiders, Beserkers, and Dominators appear, getting newbies accustomed to more firepower and armoured bots, building their skills slowly.
Squids; Literally the same as Trivial, just more, it's already too much for newbies, they haven't had a chance to learn the basics of this faction. This is where Overseers should come in, teaching newbies about

Medium:
Bugs; Hunters, Brood Commanders, and Spewers appear, teaching newbies about durable enemies and fast enemies, skills they'll need later on.
Bots; Striders and the tougher Dominator variants appear, teaching newbies about the value of aiming for week spots against bots.
Squids; The same enemies as Easy and Trivial, except with Elevated Overseers now. This is where Fleshmobs should come in, as the Squid equivalent to the Brood Commander, adding a nice jump in difficulty just before Harvesters at Challenging.

The enemy difficulty gates for the Illuminate don't make sense, and don't teach new players how to fight the squids the same masterful way the other factions do with their difficulties (seriously, Arrowhead doesn't get enough praise for the excellent difficulty balance of the Bugs and Bots early levels).

Illuminate should be stratified in the same way that the other factions are, to teach players vital skills in a digestible manner, and to give people who currently don't like fighting the squids (most people don't enjoy them) a low stress on ramp to learn the faction.

[Spartykins]

are they? I've heard stingrays are spawning on lower difficulties and that should not be happening imo

fleshmobs are ok if they're limited to a small amount active, use em like fleshpound or scrakes in killing floor or tanks in l4d

don't wanna turn new players off the faction

[Lemonidas of Sourta]

Has 6000 health (those are Bile Titan numbers) , spawns in groups of 2-3 and does so in Trivial difficulties as well. They really didn't think this through, did they?

[William Wallace]

Originally posted by Spartykins:

are they? I've heard stingrays are spawning on lower difficulties and that should not be happening imo

fleshmobs are ok if they're limited to a small amount active, use em like fleshpound or scrakes in killing floor or tanks in l4d

don't wanna turn new players off the faction

Fleshmobs and Overseers both appear at Trivial, which I honestly don't think they should.

Especially since players who have been playing since release learned to play fighting bugs and bots, NEW players are gonna play against squids, meet a Fleshmob, and get curbstomped, then probably never play squids again.

[Eightball]

I agree. Really should not start seeing those until playing above difficulty 5, maybe not until 7 (for the Flesh).

[William Wallace]

Originally posted by Lemonidas of Sourta:

Has 6000 health (those are Bile Titan numbers) , spawns in groups of 2-3 and does so in Trivial difficulties as well. They really didn't think this through, did they?

I think they balanced the Illuminate difficulties aiming them at veteran players who cut their teeth on the bugs and bots, but the squids play so differently they really need their lower difficulties tuned to teach the basics again, especially to players joining after their introduction.

Or the Fleshmobs being on Trivial is a complete oversight on Arrowhead's part, it's happened before.

Originally posted by Eightball:

I agree. Really should not start seeing those until playing above difficulty 5, maybe not until 7 (for the Flesh).

5 may be a bit high IMO, as they really feel like a Brood Commander equivalent.

Though I do think the upper difficulties (5+) are a bit samey, so some decompression in all three factions might be nice, with things like chargers, hulks, and harvesters moved up to difficulty 5.

Maybe give them less health in lower difficulties? I know hunters and warriors have less HP below challenging, so maybe have the Fleshmobs on 3 - 4 at only 3000 health, then the full 6000 at 5+?

[Flarthorn]

About stingrays, I heard they appear on trivial only if you are not solo

Which ofc doesn't make the whole situation better

[Raell]

Never heard of 'Events' before??

[Fuzzyballs01 ꦙ]

Originally posted by Spartykins:

are they? I've heard stingrays are spawning on lower difficulties and that should not be happening imo

they're super easy to take out
3 autocannon shots max

[darkblade]

Originally posted by William Wallace:

Genuine question for the Helldivers team, are Fleshmobs meant to spawn at Trivial and Easy difficulties, or is that an oversight?

I'll preface this by saying they feel like a supercharged version of the brood commander, and I am here for that; the Illuminate need something tanky and scary, and as the low armour, volume of fire faction, having a low armour/high HP unit fits their playstyle perfectly. I personally think they should be a bit more responsive to damage (maybe bleed damage from destroying the heads, or losing charge ability from losing legs), as they feel a little boring to fight right now, but I strongly approve of the concept.

But my main issue with them is their inclusion in the lower difficulties disrupts the learning curve that other factions have, which was already precarious with Overseers (a Hive Guard/Dominator equivalent) appearing at Trivial too.

Trivial:
Bugs; Scavengers, Warriors, and Bile Spitters only in patrols and breeches, so newbies can learn crowd control on the main fodder, while learning about breeches and reinforcements.
Bots; Troopers, Brawlers, and Commissars only in patrols and drops, so newbies can learn to balance taking cover from lasers and tackling rushdowns, while also learning about bot drops.
Squids; Voteless, Watchers, Overseers, and Fleshmobs, well over half the squid arsenal, everything the illuminate have except Harvesters, Stingrays, and Overseer variants. This is too much too soon for new players trying to learn the ropes on the Illuminate. Should be Voteless and Watchers only, so newbies learn the ropes on crowd controlling Voteless while killing Watchers before they send a flare.

Easy:
Bugs; Hive Guards and Pouncers appear, teaching newbies about armoured enemies and fast enemies, building on their skills slowly.
Bots; Raiders, Beserkers, and Dominators appear, getting newbies accustomed to more firepower and armoured bots, building their skills slowly.
Squids; Literally the same as Trivial, just more, it's already too much for newbies, they haven't had a chance to learn the basics of this faction. This is where Overseers should come in, teaching newbies about

Medium:
Bugs; Hunters, Brood Commanders, and Spewers appear, teaching newbies about durable enemies and fast enemies, skills they'll need later on.
Bots; Striders and the tougher Dominator variants appear, teaching newbies about the value of aiming for week spots against bots.
Squids; The same enemies as Easy and Trivial, except with Elevated Overseers now. This is where Fleshmobs should come in, as the Squid equivalent to the Brood Commander, adding a nice jump in difficulty just before Harvesters at Challenging.

The enemy difficulty gates for the Illuminate don't make sense, and don't teach new players how to fight the squids the same masterful way the other factions do with their difficulties (seriously, Arrowhead doesn't get enough praise for the excellent difficulty balance of the Bugs and Bots early levels).

Illuminate should be stratified in the same way that the other factions are, to teach players vital skills in a digestible manner, and to give people who currently don't like fighting the squids (most people don't enjoy them) a low stress on ramp to learn the faction.

but you know Stingrays spawn on D1

[Poisenbery]

Originally posted by Spartykins:

are they? I've heard stingrays are spawning on lower difficulties and that should not be happening imo

had a stingray spawn in level 1 when i was SC farming

[darkblade]

Originally posted by Fuzzyballs01 ꦙ:

Originally posted by Spartykins:

are they? I've heard stingrays are spawning on lower difficulties and that should not be happening imo

they're super easy to take out
3 autocannon shots max

ok and when do you unlock the AC at level 1 or 2?

[Aethrys]

They're very noob friendly, no armor and easy to dodge.

[John Helldiver]

Overseers should definitely appear on trivial, otherwise it'd just be voteless, and that'd be boring

[El_ Artifice]

They're easy to juke and evade. If new fodder can't survive such a trivial challenge then they're not suited for the task of defending Democracy.

[William Wallace]

Originally posted by Fuzzyballs01 ꦙ:

Originally posted by Spartykins:

are they? I've heard stingrays are spawning on lower difficulties and that should not be happening imo

they're super easy to take out
3 autocannon shots max

Originally posted by Aethrys:

They're very noob friendly, no armor and easy to dodge.

Originally posted by El_ Artifice:

They're easy to juke and evade. If new fodder can't survive such a trivial challenge then they're not suited for the task of defending Democracy.

They have 6000 health and ragdoll you like crazy, they are not easy, you are very experienced and skilled, there's a big difference.

I've gotten good enough at dealing with them that they aren't too much of an issue (been dipping my toes into Super Helldive against Squids), but they are still annoying and force my attention, and are entirely too much for a new player on TRIVIAL difficulty.

Originally posted by John Helldiver:

Overseers should definitely appear on trivial, otherwise it'd just be voteless, and that'd be boring

Overseers are the equivalent of Hive Guards, so should probably be on Easy. That'd leave Trivial with Voteless and Watchers.

If you'd find that boring, congratulations, you're ready for a higher difficulty. I recall vividly finding just Scavengers and Warriors too much on Trivial in my first game back on release, now I regularly solo Super Helldive against Bugs (everything but capture the flag, that is insane solo).

I'm not talking about experienced players like us, I'm talking about the brand new player, who Trivial is supposed to be for.