Flamethrower hate (bugs)

[Khalani]

Where is all the hate for the flamethrower coming from? Why do so many people consider it useless?

I have played it on difficulty 9 and 10 the past few days on the bug front and I'm having a blast.

It is one of the most versatile weapons against the bugs. You can kill everything in a reasonable amount of time. Even bile titans don't stand a chance if you pair it with a hoverpack.
It opens up so many possibilities for other stratagems that other support weapons can't provide.

The biggest downside of it are actually other helldivers, who don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about you holding off an entire breach and rather throw in a 380 or similar which is actually not as reliable as the flamethrower for clearing a constant flow of bugs.

You should give it a fair chance.
Use any flame resistance armor and the hoverpack for a quality of life boost.

Btw. I don't say it is better than other support weapons, I would rather say it is different and you have to know when and how to use it. So it is not as straight forward as for example an autocannon.

[Night FM]

My main complaint about the flamethrower is that it has a decent chance of setting you on fire, especially if you use it against an enemy at close range.

[Khalani]

Originally posted by Night FM:

My main complaint about the flamethrower is that it has a decent chance of setting you on fire, especially if you use it against an enemy at close range.

Agreed, it should be a little bit less aggresive, but as soon as you switch to fire resistant armor it is getting a lot better.
I would also appreciate some kind of short fear effect for enemies on fire, but even without it, flamethrower can be a good choice when fighting bugs.

[jeffy]

problem is that fire blocks vision too

[Wilson768]

Originally posted by jeffy:

problem is that fire blocks vision too

and the slow drag speed. Using a weapon designed for close combat and crowd killing cant catch up with hunters really sucks

[Void]

This isn't a flamethrower specific issue. It's a community toxicity issue. Everyone hates the time those noobs killed them with x, and misses the times they were saved by x.

[✘States]

There are problems with it, like the flame sometimes getting stuck on corpses and such, but it's not bad. It's also people arguing "why would I use this, if I can just use this instead" so they don't bother actually checking if they like the weapon.

[Midas]

It's not useless in the sense that it cannot be used, it's useless in the sense that some other weapon is almost always going to be a better choice. It's bad in the sense that it fails to accomplish what a flamethrower is meant to accomplish.

[Logen Neuf-Doigts]

it's not garbage , and i kinda like to use it but it comes with too many drawbacks to be as enjoyable as other options, and requires much more effort to match the effectiveness of other options

the short range means that you're much more likely to get hit. there's 3 bug ennemies that you absolutely need to prioritize or you take damage/set yourself on fire because of the weird blowback effect when spraying at close range, and there's two ennemies that makes you switch to primary instantly or you're boned
with that it requires so much melee hits ( only way to stagger with a flamethrower ) and dives that you start to wonder if you're a boxer or flamethrower user
AND by the way diving while firing will set you fire. you can't shoot yourself in the foot while diving or prone with any other weapon but the flamethrower

hunters : if not caught early , will hit you , if you spray them in air a bit late it will also set you on fire
alpha commanders : unless you focus head at max range , they will be close enough for a death charge ( and to set you on fire )
red warriors : spawned by alpha commanders, their high speed matches those of the hunters but have more health, damage, and a death charge ( wich will set you on fire )
bile spewers : the moment you're in range , they're in range too. who win the spray match ? generally you, do you have enough stimms to win 5, 10 , 50 more ?
stalkers : lmao just switch to your primary

all of these ennemies would be 10 times less annoying to burn to death if a tiny stagger/pushback/ flame animation effect was added to the weapon and if spraying while diving didn't damage you

[Gisli]

The problem is that *realism* is often brought up, yet real-life flamethrowers have 4–5 meters more range than the ones in-game. Angling a flamethrower upwards can propel the fuel forward, with the following flames igniting it, allowing for much greater reach thanks to you catapulting the fluids and the flame to a greater distance.

Burning enemies should have more immediate effects beyond just a slow, inevitable death. Just as gas makes them go berserk and attack indiscriminately going amok and lost, fire should cause agony, slowing them down, making them panic, or at least triggering screeches of pain as they run around angry or hurt. Even if they survive, there should be a moment of disarray to the bugs and squids that you ignite (i get if bots don't care but come on..)

Flamethrowers are underrated. They’re incredibly effective against bugs, yet in-game, their impact feels muted. but yea, imo the real issue is that fire lacks any disorienting debuff, it simply chips away at health over time instead of inflicting real, immediate distress which is really strong mind you, but these speedy bugs have a habit of not caring that their bodies are ignited at incredibly hot temperatures.

[Squigdude]

Originally posted by ⚜Sister Retributor⚜:

The problem is that *realism* is often brought up, yet real-life flamethrowers have 4–5 meters more range than the ones in-game. Angling a flamethrower upwards can propel the fuel forward, with the following flames igniting it, allowing for much greater reach thanks to you catapulting the fluids and the flame to a greater distance.

Burning enemies should have more immediate effects beyond just a slow, inevitable death. Just as gas makes them go berserk and attack indiscriminately going amok and lost, fire should cause agony, slowing them down, making them panic, or at least triggering screeches of pain as they run around angry or hurt. Even if they survive, there should be a moment of disarray to the bugs and squids that you ignite (i get if bots don't care but come on..)

Flamethrowers are underrated. They’re incredibly effective against bugs, yet in-game, their impact feels muted. but yea, imo the real issue is that fire lacks any disorienting debuff, it simply chips away at health over time instead of inflicting real, immediate distress which is really strong mind you, but these speedy bugs have a habit of not caring that their bodies are ignited at incredibly hot temperatures.

Ngl the flamethrower still staggers some enemies in my experience though i get your point exactly. Imo it doesnt have the penetration the flame should either, it would be so much better to angle it up and coat an entire horde of bugs in diesel or something and you can dive back and toss a grenade to finish off any big guys. It works well with incendiary grenades to block off entire paths around a cliff or rockface as well, its a great support but definitely could be soo much better, might be useful for bots even if it got an update for nozzle adjustment/spraying fuel

[John 11]

as someone who LOVES the flamethrower for bugs lemme tell you why my team hates it: flames bounce off of armored enemies in weird ways, so a little puff of fire might fly through the air 15 meters behind you and light a teammate on fire. this gets much worse during blizzards, sandstorms, acid storms, or any high wind condition and is easy to see when burning chargers, hive guards, and the big gold/ red enforcer bug things.

often teammates want to run where ive been pumping fire, and they dont like walking through fire.

friends who are better shots than I perfer the railgun for anit-large and see the flamethrower as ineffective because it takes more effort to kill titans.

some of those same friends generally dont like fire because it wont close bug holes.

if your fighting with the flamethrower while ANY teammate is within like 20m you have to be super careful as you dodge and burn, because the flame-jet follows the nozzle of the flamethrower, so during jumps and getting up the fire will shoot around left and right. furthermore, its really easy to be burning and dodging a charger, only to cook a teammate who doesnt realize you need them to give you SPACE, not kiss your ass.

people dont like the flamethrower because they dont like navigating our mess of fire.

[Khalani]

Originally posted by John 11:

as someone who LOVES the flamethrower for bugs lemme tell you why my team hates it: flames bounce off of armored enemies in weird ways, so a little puff of fire might fly through the air 15 meters behind you and light a teammate on fire. this gets much worse during blizzards, sandstorms, acid storms, or any high wind condition and is easy to see when burning chargers, hive guards, and the big gold/ red enforcer bug things.

often teammates want to run where ive been pumping fire, and they dont like walking through fire.

friends who are better shots than I perfer the railgun for anit-large and see the flamethrower as ineffective because it takes more effort to kill titans.

some of those same friends generally dont like fire because it wont close bug holes.

if your fighting with the flamethrower while ANY teammate is within like 20m you have to be super careful as you dodge and burn, because the flame-jet follows the nozzle of the flamethrower, so during jumps and getting up the fire will shoot around left and right. furthermore, its really easy to be burning and dodging a charger, only to cook a teammate who doesnt realize you need them to give you SPACE, not kiss your ass.

people dont like the flamethrower because they dont like navigating our mess of fire.

A lot of this can be solved when you don't shoot the flamethrower blind on every single enemy, but use it as a wall between you and your team.
I can see that it might be a little difficult to see through the fire, but I think it is better than gas and still possible.
Railgun is a good alternative since it is also very versatile, but in terms of TTK the flamethrower is usually faster on titans and charger BUT you have to be close enough, which can be a problem.

I don't say flamethower is the best weapon, but it doesn't deserver all the bad reputation, but thats my personal opinion.

[Colonel Angus]

My biggest issue with it is the firing angle registers lower than it should. If you aim downward to light the patch of ground in front of you on fire, it also includes, somehow, the patch of ground you're standing over, so generally need to be walking backward to try to avoid that.

Wish it had a longer range mode with a more powerful jet that had a narrower parabolic arc that strayed less from the middle of the screen; trading off AOE radius for something more focused.

[Jimmy]

Because it is absolutely useless, primary weapons can stunlock enemies to death but they just walk through your jet of flame and attack you and/or set you on fire. The DoT damage is pathetic as well.

[John 11]

[/quote]

A lot of this can be solved when you don't shoot the flamethrower blind on every single enemy, but use it as a wall between you and your team.
I can see that it might be a little difficult to see through the fire, but I think it is better than gas and still possible.
Railgun is a good alternative since it is also very versatile, but in terms of TTK the flamethrower is usually faster on titans and charger BUT you have to be close enough, which can be a problem.

I don't say flamethower is the best weapon, but it doesn't deserver all the bad reputation, but thats my personal opinion. [/quote]


the statements on how to use the flamethrower aside...

i gotta disagree on the TTK with the railgun. the time it takes to fire 2-3 shots in a bile titan head vs the amount of time it takes to dump a canister into its face and belly, the railgun is faster on bile titans. on normal chargers i agree, the flamethrower is faster at cooking the head and legs, the problem cooking chargers is the fire trail being a problem for any nearby teammates as well as direct FF if your not careful about your dodge direction and followup fire jet, which gets harder as 3 or 5 chargers are chasing you and your teammates at one time.
i think the railgun is a better anti large or anti heavy weapon with jack of all abilities for medium enemies. while the flamethrower is chaff slaying king with the jack of all features to also take on heavy and large enemies with the right tactics. on the right planet (with enough cover) flamethrowers are viable against bots too. its just alot harder.

there is no "best" weapon. and i agree, people give fire too much hate. but people hate fire because: it gets in the way, does hard to predict things-especially in storms- , its inharently dangerous to be close to teammates using fire, and doesnt have the destructive capabilities of other support weapons or stratagems.