Any other weapon than liberator is piss poor

[Astrien]

For example, adjucator from democratic detonation. What the hell is that? I will lose 15 bullets per mag, and a heck ton of recoil. Just to hit +30dmg which I will miss the half because of recoil? That weapon sounds like its about to bomb everything it hits, yet you can't kill an alpha commander with full mag.

Some weapons need real buff. Like flamethrower. %50 you'll burn yourself but enemies will keep hitting you anyways. Some primaries need a little buff, it doesnt have to be dmg based. Like if enemy is being hit directly from front by a flamethrower, it should be slowed a bit. Also a range increase for flamethrower would be really cool. Real life flamethrowers sure send flames more than 5 meter range

[Vivianite]

you don't know how to balance weapons if you think the liberator is the best weapon in the game rn.

[Tahla]

Originally posted by Vivianite:

you don't know how to balance weapons if you think the liberator is the best weapon in the game rn.

I don't think Arrowhead knows either or will care to do so in the future when you read the posts by the CCO Pilestedt on reddit. This one regarding the Plas-39 Accelerator rifle:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1hqpph6/comment/m4tnawc/

Because weapons are what weapons are, balance doesn't matter. This is also what was wrong before. Things were seen as game objects rather than real weapons.

If you like the KZ fantasy, you may want to use it. It kills things, not useless.

It could maybe use some tweaking, but unfortunately a 3 burst sniper with 9 rounds per mag... isn't that great. But that's how the weapon works.

I really despise the trope that snipers in games do more damage than rifles of the same caliber. It's so dumb.

By that logic the diligence should probably do below 100 damage per shot.

[Merdoc]

Try the adjudicator on bot missions and treat it more like a Marksmans rifle. Use the burst option or even single shot. Edit: It no longer has a burst mode. Or maybe never had, I might have had a faulty memory.
If you absolutely need the full auto, choose an armour with the recoil reduction perk and only shoot while crouched or prone.

Helldivers Armor penetration mechanics are actually quite complex and if you want to get into the nitty gritty of giving weapon feedback you'll first need to engross yourself in it.

Apart from missing your shots, which isn't the weapons fault, let's continue your example.
I'll take some stats from the wiki, but they're sadly outdated.
A Alpha commanders head has 250 HP with 70% Durability.
Adjudicator Deals 90 Normal Damage and 23 Durable damage.
This means each shot to the lightly armored head would deal 27 + 16 = 43 Damage.
250 / 43 = 5.8 shots.
6 shots is definitely not accurate, which means the head has a higher armor or health value than anticipated.

If the head is medium armored, then we match it with our armor pen, which means only 65% damage is being dealt.

For any bodyparts which are high in durability, you should use explosive weaponry. They usually deal full damage against them.

Anyway, this is just a short exploration into the mechanics, but you seem to be the person to continue and increase your rage seeing this obfuscating and obtrusive system. To you I'd say; sod off. Sorry but I like it complex, nuanced and with many details to figure out. Otherwise it gets boring very quickly to just magdump into every enemy you see.

Here's the link for the Damage calculation mechanics, they're still the same, although numbers have changed quite a bit these past few months: https://helldivers.wiki.gg/wiki/Damage

[Astrien]

Originally posted by Merdoc:

Try the adjudicator on bot missions and treat it more like a Marksmans rifle. Use the burst option or even single shot. If you absolutely need the full auto, choose an armour with the recoil reduction perk and only shoot while crouched or prone.

Helldivers Armor penetration mechanics are actually quite complex and if you want to get into the nitty gritty of giving weapon feedback you'll first need to engross yourself in it.

Apart from missing your shots, which isn't the weapons fault, let's continue your example.
I'll take some stats from the wiki, but they're sadly outdated.
A Alpha commanders head has 250 HP with 70% Durability.
Adjudicator Deals 90 Normal Damage and 23 Durable damage.
This means each shot to the lightly armored head would deal 27 + 16 = 43 Damage.
250 / 43 = 5.8 shots.
6 shots is definitely not accurate, which means the head has a higher armor or health value than anticipated.

If the head is medium armored, then we match it with our armor pen, which means only 65% damage is being dealt.

For any bodyparts which are high in durability, you should use explosive weaponry. They usually deal full damage against them.

Anyway, this is just a short exploration into the mechanics, but you seem to be the person to continue and increase your rage seeing this obfuscating and obtrusive system. To you I'd say; sod off. Sorry but I like it complex, nuanced and with many details to figure out. Otherwise it gets boring very quickly to just magdump into every enemy you see.

Here's the link for the Damage calculation mechanics, they're still the same, although numbers have changed quite a bit these past few months: https://helldivers.wiki.gg/wiki/Damage

I don't think its boring while it's like that. I just don't get this whole nerf/buff thing going on in the game, just let me play whatever is suitable for the situation. I get some weapons are for automatons and some for terminids. Treating Adjudicator as marksman makes sense as I've seen people shooting automaton heads with it, but I believe it does not have a burst option though.

I think info regarding armor penetration in-game is pretty much non-existent as there arent anything such as "medium pen" or "light pen" There are 11 different armor penetration types and they aren't listed anywhere on weapons. Many information regarding stratagems are also non existent, especially the "uses", where eagle napalm airstrike can be used again and again after out of uses but orbital laser is really limited to 3.

There is a marksman rifle callled R63-CS diligence listed as medium pen, but it definitely does not penetrate through "Hive Guard" 's head armor. It's listed as medium pen. Just as we had missing information regarding enemy defend % for planets before illuminate update, we are missing tons of information from stratagems and weapons. Some weapons like eruptor pretty much don't do anything it's supposed to do(jet-propelled rounds and normal liberator ammunition are both medium pen and eruptor is explosive?) yet it cant even kill a alpha commander in one hit. Literally shoots a jet propelled ammunition that explodes in it and doesnt kill? What?

I wont talk about flamethrower, its a bug only weapon and it's range is piss poor. This game is in 2174 and flamethrowers act like nerf toys. I dont think organic bugs should be able to run at you while getting absolutely burned at 600 degrees celcius right on their face should be running at me yet small ones take seconds to die. Not even talking about 10 meter range. come on, its a flamethrower, not a flame peeing weapon.

I too love complex weapons but considering everyone is almost spamming same weapons like arc thrower and scorcher again and again and other weapons aren't used by anybody, its obvious there is a balancing issue with them. Adjudicator is a premium warbond weapon though.

[Paulie]

Adjudicator is a good rifle, it kicks like a mule but you're using it like it's an AR-15. Try using it like it were a gap rifle between Assault and sniper. short bursts or single shots is where the adjudicator shines.

[Astrien]

Originally posted by Paulie:

Adjudicator is a good rifle, it kicks like a mule but you're using it like it's an AR-15. Try using it like it were a gap rifle between Assault and sniper. short bursts or single shots is where the adjudicator shines.

Great idea, i wish we had a training ground in this game to test various weapons

[Vivianite]

Originally posted by Tahla:

Originally posted by Vivianite:

you don't know how to balance weapons if you think the liberator is the best weapon in the game rn.

I don't think Arrowhead knows either or will care to do so in the future when you read the posts by the CCO Pilestedt on reddit. This one regarding the Plas-39 Accelerator rifle:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1hqpph6/comment/m4tnawc/

Because weapons are what weapons are, balance doesn't matter. This is also what was wrong before. Things were seen as game objects rather than real weapons.

If you like the KZ fantasy, you may want to use it. It kills things, not useless.

It could maybe use some tweaking, but unfortunately a 3 burst sniper with 9 rounds per mag... isn't that great. But that's how the weapon works.

I really despise the trope that snipers in games do more damage than rifles of the same caliber. It's so dumb.

By that logic the diligence should probably do below 100 damage per shot.

you're really going "☝️🤓 acktually" over me calling out op like that?

[Khryst]

Originally posted by Astrien:

Originally posted by Paulie:

Adjudicator is a good rifle, it kicks like a mule but you're using it like it's an AR-15. Try using it like it were a gap rifle between Assault and sniper. short bursts or single shots is where the adjudicator shines.

Great idea, i wish we had a training ground in this game to test various weapons

you do it's called difficulty 5.

lol in all seriousness having some kind of shooting range that we can play with the weapons before going planetside is something I would love.

[Tahla]

Originally posted by Vivianite:

Originally posted by Tahla:

I don't think Arrowhead knows either or will care to do so in the future when you read the posts by the CCO Pilestedt on reddit. This one regarding the Plas-39 Accelerator rifle:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1hqpph6/comment/m4tnawc/



By that logic the diligence should probably do below 100 damage per shot.

you're really going "☝️🤓 acktually" over me calling out op like that?

Just pointing out what seems to be the most recent Arrowhead statement and comparing it to the reality in the game. Especially since the liberator is their love child weapon they claim to balance everything else around. Nothing personal against you, it just seemed relevant at the moment.

[Gundug]

Originally posted by Tahla:

By that logic the diligence should probably do below 100 damage per shot.

The Diligence rifles run a completely different cartridge from any other gun in the game - 9x70mm. Assault rifles and the Stalwart are in 5.5x50mm. Battle rifles use weird names for their cartridge in the code (Battle Rico, Battle Rifle), but they should seemingly be chambering whatever the 7.62 NATO equivalent in this game is (8x60mm?). The MG-43 machine gun is in 8x60mm. The MG-206 HMG fires 12.5x100mm. I assume by what you wrote that you expected the marksman rifles to be in the same caliber as the MG-43.

And to answer the original poster, it is true, there is no finer, more well engineered weapon in all of Super Earth than the exceptional AR-23 Liberator and every Helldiver should be proud to die with one of these held lovingly in their hands.

[ZiggyDeath]

Man, I don't get the Adjudicator hate. It's literally a pocket MG-43.

[Aethrys]

Originally posted by ZiggyDeath:

Man, I don't get the Adjudicator hate. It's literally a pocket MG-43.

My theory is that many people really don't know it got repeatedly buffed into the stratosphere. The recoil is negligible now, people saying they need recoil reducing armor to use it sound insane to me.

[darkblade]

Originally posted by Astrien:

Originally posted by Merdoc:

Try the adjudicator on bot missions and treat it more like a Marksmans rifle. Use the burst option or even single shot. If you absolutely need the full auto, choose an armour with the recoil reduction perk and only shoot while crouched or prone.
There is a marksman rifle callled R63-CS diligence listed as medium pen, but it definitely does not penetrate through "Hive Guard" 's head armor. It's listed as medium pen.

but this is also a wrong info the The diligence CS can penetrate a Hive guards Head armor, i just tested it to be sure

[Astrien]

Originally posted by Aethrys:

Originally posted by ZiggyDeath:

Man, I don't get the Adjudicator hate. It's literally a pocket MG-43.

My theory is that many people really don't know it got repeatedly buffed into the stratosphere. The recoil is negligible now, people saying they need recoil reducing armor to use it sound insane to me.

I think best way to balance it is to well, keep the recoil. Increase damage to around ~125, lower the fire rate. Make it crush the armors. It could be a cool high recoil high reward gun. Limit it to 6 mags. We have a SMG in truth enforcers that does 120 ish damage. It's a SMG.

Right now it's a high recoil, no reward gun. You give away half mag, recoil, you get +30 damage which you will miss.
What's the point of using it instead of liberator? Flying overseers? You have to hit the same spot to kill them, liberator will do it much better because of low recoil. Its more of a marksman instead of an assault rifle at the moment. No burst option though.(bruh)

[Astrien]

Originally posted by darkblade:

Originally posted by Astrien:

but this is also a wrong info the The diligence CS can penetrate a Hive guards Head armor, i just tested it to be sure

I'm sure it does not, I was literally playing it today and I got baffled on its a medium pen and it ricocheted from hive guards head armor, maybe possible game bug?