Flying Overseers are terribly badly designed

[Captain Doombeard]

Generally speaking, when you design an enemy unit, you pick from a list of advantages to give it.

Is it a swarmer? Make them fast and spawn a billion of them. A tank? Make its armor hard to penetrate.

Flying Overseers have the following advantages:
- They spawn in groups of two to five
- They can tank direct hits from anti-tank weaponry
- They fly
- They are nimble, hard to hit, able to dodge fire
- They hit hard
- They have a high fire rate
- They can flush you out of cover with grenades

There are no weaknesses on this list.

Every aspect of their design is strength on strength on strength.

I can clear them. I can win missions and make progress. I got over four hundred kills on my last drop, slogging through wave after wave of Illuminate.

But I wasn't having fun. I was gritting my teeth the whole time, wishing I was doing something else.

The fun is gone. I want to go back to fighting bots. The Illuminate are just not fun to fight at all, and half of the problem is these damned flying overseers.

I don't care what is done to balance them, but SOMETHING must be taken away from them, because you can't just design an enemy with a long list of advantages and no clear weaknesses.

Certainly not if you want me to keep playing them.

Back to bots for me.

EDIT::

Let's make something clear: I DO successfully fight the Squids. I can take down flying overseers.

I know that there are different options to take them down. I know that the meta for Squids is different than for Bots or Bugs.

What I'm saying is that I'm not having as much fun fighting the Illuminate as I have fighting Bugs or Bots.

I think that there are design flaws in the Illuminate that make them more annoying and less fun. This is a very subjective analysis, your mileage may vary, but several people in my friend group have the same opinion:

The Illuminate are an ugly slog to fight, and don't feel as fun. And part of the problem seems to be that the flying guys are too tanky for how fast they are.

Y'know, it just don't feel good. Something feels off.

End of the day, it's all about whether the players are having fun. Right?

We have a lot more fun against Bots. That's all.

I feel like this could be useful feedback for the devs.

[zidj]

Hasselblad původně napsal:

I for one agree with you. Shooting an AMR round into their face should have a much better result than a momentary stun. It's simply not fun. Their random swaying around like a baloon in a windstorm makes them hard enough target wise. Add the hordes of zombies intermixed with the other shield dudes...

Not as fun as it is frustrating. I'll suffer through a personal order, but F the MO if they are involved. Bots and bugs are infinitely more enjoyable.

There is some hitbox jank going on with them so not your fault, (the shoulders might be catching bullets headed to their face) but the AMR does infact onetap overseer heads.

The movement (aside from the jank with teleportation and phasing through things) is probably on purpose so even with the ideal weapons to take them down quick, they remain a distraction for you that harvesters and voteless can exploit.

Every anti-overseer anti-harvester weapon is the same in this regard. All of them take time and focus for one reason or another. Projectile velocity. firerate. spread. field of vision. aiming for weakspots. all of these end up in requiring that extra focus, and tend to also carry extra compromises like not being efficient at stripping shields or clearing hordes of voteless. with anti-horde weapons, requiring lots of bullets is another form of demanding your attention to kill overseers.

[Caldari Ghost]

Mr.Kill původně napsal:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3jBO2X-7TPA&pp=ygUTT3ZlcnNlZXJzIGFyZSBqZXJrcw%3D%3D

Elevated overseers can sometimes fly around so fast you can't turn fast enough to shoot them and also go through walls

Is this video in slow motion?

[Mr.Kill]

Caldari Ghost původně napsal:

Mr.Kill původně napsal:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3jBO2X-7TPA&pp=ygUTT3ZlcnNlZXJzIGFyZSBqZXJrcw%3D%3D

Elevated overseers can sometimes fly around so fast you can't turn fast enough to shoot them and also go through walls

Is this video in slow motion?

No but in YouTube you can change vid playback speed.

[LORD]

Dont know what are you complaining about, Just lower the difficulty, I think lvl 3 or 4 will be decent for you

[Caldari Ghost]

Mr.Kill původně napsal:

Caldari Ghost původně napsal:

Is this video in slow motion?

No but in YouTube you can change vid playback speed.

That's really not a good showcase of overseers being "too fast" to aim at.

[Mr.Kill]

Caldari Ghost původně napsal:

Mr.Kill původně napsal:

No but in YouTube you can change vid playback speed.

That's really not a good showcase of overseers being "too fast" to aim at.

Idk what you mean the aiming circle on the hmg you can't actually catch up the overseer while he swings around like that.

[zidj]

Mr.Kill původně napsal:

Idk what you mean the aiming circle on the hmg you can't actually catch up the overseer while he swings around like that.

It's tougher but you can. You can more aggressively swing, then snap back once it's in the place you want.

You could also use peak physique to give HMG faster ergo

You can simply shoot whenever the O is on the overseer, regardless of whether it's on the center of your screen or not.

[Graf Vigah]

or just get carried like the rest of those people here that see not a single problem in this design

[Mr.Kill]

zidj původně napsal:

Mr.Kill původně napsal:

Idk what you mean the aiming circle on the hmg you can't actually catch up the overseer while he swings around like that.

It's tougher but you can. You can more aggressively swing, then snap back once it's in the place you want.

You could also use peak physique to give HMG faster ergo

I might need to up the sensitivity on the controller then. I don't have peak physique. In either case I have crossbow so I don't need hmg for overseers these days

[Hasselblad]

Caldari Ghost původně napsal:

Hasselblad původně napsal:

I for one agree with you. Shooting an AMR round into their face should have a much better result than a momentary stun. It's simply not fun. Their random swaying around like a baloon in a windstorm makes them hard enough target wise. Add the hordes of zombies intermixed with the other shield dudes...

Not as fun as it is frustrating. I'll suffer through a personal order, but F the MO if they are involved. Bots and bugs are infinitely more enjoyable.

Sentries, Tesla tower, blitzer shotgun

Yeah, dropping a sentry or a tower to counter a single enemy. Brilliant use of resources, an oh so fun.
/s

[Mky]

they are vulnerable to a lot of things.

it's the perfect time to change your set up and try new things.

2 good options against them (amongst other) :
-laser canon
-arc-12 blitzer

[Caldari Ghost]

Mr.Kill původně napsal:

Caldari Ghost původně napsal:

That's really not a good showcase of overseers being "too fast" to aim at.

Idk what you mean the aiming circle on the hmg you can't actually catch up the overseer while he swings around like that.

https://youtu.be/oksyGMEfxUM?si=Ze7PDVmC4AyR6EzY

[AonGreyFox]

zidj původně napsal:

I wouldn't bet on this happening. Overseers are tanky by design.
https://youtu.be/6Pt0qAjMWCw?t=84

If overseers weren't tanky, the voteless would no longer be a threat because you could drop the overseer quickly then get back to the voteless, if not just disengage from them.

I mean only for the flying one, Diver. The ground overseer is fair game (unless they desire to melee rush all day long, those ----ard) Like I once say, half the health / armor would be nice breakpoint, still annoying as hell, need a bit to aim to dispatch, but now faster.

I understand the meaning of tanky by design, but at least I don't think Shirker should have same health as Hive Guard or jump pack Raider can have same health as Berserker. It's just don't feel right for me.

Hasselblad původně napsal:

I for one agree with you. Shooting an AMR round into their face should have a much better result than a momentary stun. It's simply not fun. Their random swaying around like a baloon in a windstorm makes them hard enough target wise. Add the hordes of zombies intermixed with the other shield dudes...

Not as fun as it is frustrating. I'll suffer through a personal order, but F the MO if they are involved. Bots and bugs are infinitely more enjoyable.

[/quote]

As zidj said, it's hit box jank ... or may be Latency... I don't know. I have lot of time that I'm prone and aim AMR at the forehead. Nope, just hit somewhere else. It's like 50-50 chance to hit the head that large as half as his body and this really piss me off to no end. I never have this problem with ground Overseer through. If I miss ground one, it can see it clearly my mistake due to sway or he suddenly move / change pose.

[Cyberbrick 2048-2049]

By design, they are made to be your equal. So naturally, they've got something for every situation, just like you.

This doesn't make it bad design.

[アンジェル]

Cyberbrick 2048-2049 původně napsal:

By design, they are made to be your equal. So naturally, they've got something for every situation, just like you.

This doesn't make it bad design.

Only equal is their weapon. Everything else is absolutely subpar.