Liberator concussive vs SMG-72 Pummeler

[nayfas2]

check link: https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2388684695467727063/ACCCA06DB63840EA0C57AD76560CB404B9713C30/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false
its no sense SMG-72 Pummeler its in every way better than Liberator concussive, maybe lets increase magazine capacity/ damage / recoil and fire rate of liberator to at least be equal or different in some way the same power of pummeler

[Hawk]

ROF & mag capacity increase would help the issue with the Lib Conc honestly, having a primary shoot slower than the semiauto pistols is just ridiculous.

[joeredner]

And the pummeler isn't even that good really. And I say that as someone who mains it on bugs. I know the pummeler front to back I use it 90+% of the time on bugs. It's not a good primary weapon it's just good for how I play. It buys me time for my strats to do the work because I can fire behind me while running. So not only is it better than the Lib C it has more utility. I can't imagine having to play with the concussive instead. That would not be fun.

[Vespertellino]

yes, yes it is

[Hawk]

Originally posted by joeredner:

And the pummeler isn't even that good really. And I say that as someone who mains it on bugs. I know the pummeler front to back I use it 90+% of the time on bugs. It's not a good primary weapon it's just good for how I play. It buys me time for my strats to do the work because I can fire behind me while running. So not only is it better than the Lib C it has more utility. I can't imagine having to play with the concussive instead. That would not be fun.

Yeah neither are any good, any concussion based weapons are really trash in this game and have been since day 1 with the Lib. Conc. The pummeler was just a slightly better version of it but it's still trying too hard to be a utility primary in a game where 95% of all primaries are pure garbage at doing ad clear.

[Enforcer]

Originally posted by joeredner:

And the pummeler isn't even that good really. And I say that as someone who mains it on bugs. I know the pummeler front to back I use it 90+% of the time on bugs. It's not a good primary weapon it's just good for how I play. It buys me time for my strats to do the work because I can fire behind me while running. So not only is it better than the Lib C it has more utility. I can't imagine having to play with the concussive instead. That would not be fun.

Rifles in general should do way more damage compared ro SMGs.
I don't know which calibers the SMGs use so i don't know exactly how much one could balance them but they're ok to use.
The Cookout is a good alternative albeit short range and best against bugs because it also stops and pushes back enemies despite it not being in the description...very good at stunning Stalkers....way better than the Stalwart or machine gun.

[Wutever]

Originally posted by Hawk:

ROF & mag capacity increase would help the issue with the Lib Conc honestly, having a primary shoot slower than the semiauto pistols is just ridiculous.

I wouldn't be surprised if there as a technical reason behind this. It has both high stagger force and absolutely insane push force (higher than any other gun in the game, including support weapons). Letting this rip at 640 RPM could do some real goofy stuff.

[Gundug]

Based on what's in the files, the SMG-72 Pummeler is firing a 12x25mm cartridge with the bullet weighing 15 grams at a muzzle velocity of 210 m/s, while the AR-23C Liberty Concussive fires a 5.5x50mm "explosive" cartridge with the bullet weighing 4.5 grams at a muzzle velocity of 800 m/s. In terms of damage, the very large and heavy rounds from the SMG-72 would do considerable harm at close range, tapering off quickly over distance, while the AR-23C would maintain more consistent damage at longer ranges. I think in game, the Pummeler is noticeably less accurate than the Concussive, and far less usable at range, so there is something to be said for being able to actually hit a target.

A difference between them that does not appear in the displayed game stats is that the Pummeler only does 7 durable damage, against 23 for the Liberty Concussive. With the upcoming changes to some of the enemies where they will supposedly be more vulnerable to primary weapons, it will be interesting to see if this makes a noticeable difference in time to kill between these two weapons. I think the kill power of any weapon taking two to three shots to the body against small targets feels too low, considering the size of the swarms, so multiplying their damage by maybe around 1.5 to 2.0 could go a long way toward fixing that.

Both of these weapons are armor penetrating 2 class, even though the Liberty has almost four times the muzzle velocity. I feel that some of the weapons might use a bump up in penetration level, but haven't thought it out well enough to be sure it wouldn't invalidate the purpose of the dedicated anti-armor weapons.

I have to admit that I have barely used either though, since they are outclassed pretty heavily in their crowd control role by the Slugger and Dominator, which do far more damage, the Cookout, which can stun lock crowds with single shots and burns small targets to death, and Punisher Plasma and Purifier, which have AOE damage that kills small enemies and AOE stagger.

[Zedonova Nova]

Originally posted by Gundug:

Based on what's in the files, the SMG-72 Pummeler is firing a 12x25mm cartridge with the bullet weighing 15 grams at a muzzle velocity of 210 m/s, while the AR-23C Liberty Concussive fires a 5.5x50mm "explosive" cartridge with the bullet weighing 4.5 grams at a muzzle velocity of 800 m/s. In terms of damage, the very large and heavy rounds from the SMG-72 would do considerable harm at close range, tapering off quickly over distance, while the AR-23C would maintain more consistent damage at longer ranges. I think in game, the Pummeler is noticeably less accurate than the Concussive, and far less usable at range, so there is something to be said for being able to actually hit a target.

A difference between them that does not appear in the displayed game stats is that the Pummeler only does 7 durable damage, against 23 for the Liberty Concussive. With the upcoming changes to some of the enemies where they will supposedly be more vulnerable to primary weapons, it will be interesting to see if this makes a noticeable difference in time to kill between these two weapons. I think the kill power of any weapon taking two to three shots to the body against small targets feels too low, considering the size of the swarms, so multiplying their damage by maybe around 1.5 to 2.0 could go a long way toward fixing that.

Both of these weapons are armor penetrating 2 class, even though the Liberty has almost four times the muzzle velocity. I feel that some of the weapons might use a bump up in penetration level, but haven't thought it out well enough to be sure it wouldn't invalidate the purpose of the dedicated anti-armor weapons.

I have to admit that I have barely used either though, since they are outclassed pretty heavily in their crowd control role by the Slugger and Dominator, which do far more damage, the Cookout, which can stun lock crowds with single shots and burns small targets to death, and Punisher Plasma and Purifier, which have AOE damage that kills small enemies and AOE stagger.

Are we using "realism again" or not.

[r3ach5stars1]

Originally posted by Enforcer:

Rifles in general should do way more damage compared ro SMGs.

but that no realistic we need more realism in this game and smg small weapon have better damage than bigger weapon... sooo realistic trust me im AH dev

[Gundug]

Originally posted by Zedonova Nova:

Are we using "realism again" or not.

Sorry, I don’t understand what it is you are trying to say with relation to my post.

[DapperDeeds]

BuT ITs REaliSTIC!!?! = Devs trying to rationalize why they do the stupid things they do.

It is stupid and I think increase in dmg or mag size would greatly help the concussive.

[Inardesco]

Everything the lib concussor does, the pummeler does better.

But they have different things they do. Concussor staggers (read pushes backwards) the Pummeler stuns (read stops them from moving).

Originally posted by Hawk:

Yeah neither are any good, any concussion based weapons are really trash in this game and have been since day 1 with the Lib. Conc. The pummeler was just a slightly better version of it but it's still trying too hard to be a utility primary in a game where 95% of all primaries are pure garbage at doing ad clear.

You know you can stun chargers with pummeler right? No? Well now you do.

[DapperDeeds]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Everything the lib concussor does, the pummeler does better.

But they have different things they do. Concussor staggers (read pushes backwards) the Pummeler stuns (read stops them from moving).

Originally posted by Hawk:

Yeah neither are any good, any concussion based weapons are really trash in this game and have been since day 1 with the Lib. Conc. The pummeler was just a slightly better version of it but it's still trying too hard to be a utility primary in a game where 95% of all primaries are pure garbage at doing ad clear.

You know you can stun chargers with pummeler right? No? Well now you do.

That is pretty cool but I'd like to pair it with ballistic shield.... which is 100% useless against bugs as spewers and titans dmg isn't blocked at all.

[Zedonova Nova]

ROF should be at least 540 for the LIBC and same damage...currently its a uselessly dumb weapon. Even when I first got it, I found it useless.

[Hawk]

Originally posted by Inardesco:

Everything the lib concussor does, the pummeler does better.

But they have different things they do. Concussor staggers (read pushes backwards) the Pummeler stuns (read stops them from moving).

Originally posted by Hawk:

Yeah neither are any good, any concussion based weapons are really trash in this game and have been since day 1 with the Lib. Conc. The pummeler was just a slightly better version of it but it's still trying too hard to be a utility primary in a game where 95% of all primaries are pure garbage at doing ad clear.

You know you can stun chargers with pummeler right? No? Well now you do.

Know what else stuns them? EAT/RR/Quasar. Now you do.