Improving the HMG

[Straph]

To enhance the functionality and appeal of the HMG in Helldivers 2, I suggest equipping it with a belt-fed backpack that holds a total of 500 rounds. This setup eliminates the need for manual reloading but introduces a shorter cooldown period of five minutes for resupply. Additionally, the HMG should come equipped with an automatic stabilizer, such as a steady-cam style third arm, to improve mobility and accuracy.

These changes would give the HMG a distinct role and purpose, making it more versatile and effective outside of its current limitations, which often require players to crouch or dive before firing. This redesign addresses player feedback by providing a more dynamic and user-friendly experience with the weapon.

[Random Person]

Originally posted by Foxador:

Originally posted by Random Person:

I'm not aware of them nerfing its angled penetration at some point, I think it was always like that

They nerfed the angled penetration at the same time that they nerfed it's durable damage. I believe they did both of these nerfs as it was done at the same time they allowed the HMG to damage heavy units such as chargers and hulks straight on so it was a misguided attempt to make it not OP

I still don't remember anyone ever bringing this up back then, though I suppose I can take your word for it. After all the current angled penetration stats for the HMG do look kinda wrong, considering its extreme angled ap level is only 0. Technically speaking, a shot from the HMG could deflect off a basic automaton trooper's body or a terminid warrior if it hit at an extreme enough angle, which doesn't feel right, especially when you consider the medium machine gun actually has better extreme angle penetration, instead having AP1 here.

[Foxador]

Originally posted by Random Person:

Originally posted by Foxador:

They nerfed the angled penetration at the same time that they nerfed it's durable damage. I believe they did both of these nerfs as it was done at the same time they allowed the HMG to damage heavy units such as chargers and hulks straight on so it was a misguided attempt to make it not OP

I still don't remember anyone ever bringing this up back then, though I suppose I can take your word for it. After all the current angled penetration stats for the HMG do look kinda wrong, considering its extreme angled ap level is only 0. Technically speaking, a shot from the HMG could deflect off a basic automaton trooper's body or a terminid warrior if it hit at an extreme enough angle, which doesn't feel right, especially when you consider the medium machine gun actually has better extreme angle penetration, instead having AP1 here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1focff8/a_stealth_nerf_an_intended_change_and_a_a_couple/?utm_source=embedv2&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_content=action_bar&embed_host_url=https://www.videogamer.com/news/helldivers-2-big-update-added-stealth-nerfs/

It's right there on the patch notes. Angled nerf and durable damage nerf. They also reduced it's large angle pen from 4 to 3 which means you need to be very dead on or you'll deflect

I've actually had the HMG deflect off of basic bots.

[Random Person]

Originally posted by Foxador:

Originally posted by Random Person:

I still don't remember anyone ever bringing this up back then, though I suppose I can take your word for it. After all the current angled penetration stats for the HMG do look kinda wrong, considering its extreme angled ap level is only 0. Technically speaking, a shot from the HMG could deflect off a basic automaton trooper's body or a terminid warrior if it hit at an extreme enough angle, which doesn't feel right, especially when you consider the medium machine gun actually has better extreme angle penetration, instead having AP1 here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1focff8/a_stealth_nerf_an_intended_change_and_a_a_couple/?utm_source=embedv2&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_content=action_bar&embed_host_url=https://www.videogamer.com/news/helldivers-2-big-update-added-stealth-nerfs/

It's right there on the patch notes. Angled nerf and durable damage nerf. They also reduced it's large angle pen from 4 to 3 which means you need to be very dead on or you'll deflect

I've actually had the HMG deflect off of basic bots.

I see. Perhaps they could increase its durable damage back to 50, its large angle pen back to AP4, and its extreme pen to perhaps AP2. That would make it feel more powerful and make it a lot more effective against bug heavies, while also removing the change of it deflecting off of chaff enemies, since it would be impossible for it deflect on anything less than medium armor. I don't think the devs need to really worry about it being overpowered right now, as weapons like the recoiless rifle will always outcompete it in the anti-tank niche, and the other machine gun will probably always be better at chaff clear, so I think it only real close competitor will be the autocannon, since they are both support weapons that can cover everything from chaff to heavies. And the autocannon of course would be difficult to dethrone in this niche anyway.

[ganjou241]

I think the portable HMG has to be the only MG that has its own backpack. If another guy has an HMG backpack two could do a team reload style of feeding ammo to the other..

[Mr.Gold]

I think the HMG is better compared to a few months back. I would love for the ricochet angles to be reduced so the bullets would ricochet less. That would be the only change for me. I am fine with the recoil as I then use the armour that reduces recoil and shoot from prone. It also absolutely mows down groups of enemies in a way the AC doesn't so if you have an HMG next to a bug hole or a bot drop you can tear through medium armoured enemies and light skinned ones in seconds leaving only the bug bruisers which you can then take care of using recoilless or commando. But yeah. Lower the ricochet angle by like 10 degrees and that would be awesome.

[Brigvs Maximvs]

The thing about the HMG requiring a backpack is that, well, you lose a backpack slot. That would have been for a shield, jump or a supply pack or ammo packs you can support your friends with.

I'd push for a new strategem altogether, not a buff. We have the current HMG, then a version with a pack, if you like.

Maybe AH would bring back the MGX-42, which is a 400-round, disposable machine gun. Yes, it doesn't reload, you just throw it away when it's spent. It's similar to the EAT that you can drop down repeatedly.

[Random Person]

Originally posted by Brigs:

The thing about the HMG requiring a backpack is that, well, you lose a backpack slot. That would have been for a shield, jump or a supply pack or ammo packs you can support your friends with.

I'd push for a new strategem altogether, not a buff. We have the current HMG, then a version with a pack, if you like.

Maybe AH would bring back the MGX-42, which is a 400-round, disposable machine gun. Yes, it doesn't reload, you just throw it away when it's spent. It's similar to the EAT that you can drop down repeatedly.

Gonna need that for whenever the Illuminate show up

[Foxador]

Originally posted by Random Person:

Gonna need that for whenever the Illuminate show up

Coming soon! In the year 2026

Honestly with the amount of hype and talk about that faction, I know it's going to be a disappointment when they finally decide to release them. Especially when no one liked them in the first game and everyone keeps saying they're the most OP hard race in the game

No one wants to fight the bots, not really, and they're just basically like fighting in a WW2 game or a FPS shooter which people are *supposed* to enjoy. Imagine how bad it's going to be once they put in this super psychic race that can invert your controls or melt your mind or whatever

[Eightball]

I am of the understanding (and could be wrong here) there is a game mechanics limitation in linking a backpack ammo feed to a weapon. They are two separate entities; the support slot and the backpack slot.

I do not believe we have any such continuous feed weapons atm. Any weapon/back pack combo like the AC or the RR just use the associated backpack as ammo storage and not as an ammo feed.

Not that it would not be interesting to have such an option. I mean I would really like a flamethrower/backpack combo to increase the fuel capacity.

If I had to guess about any increase in magazine/belt capacity I would go with @Brigs suggestion of them bringing back a disposable, high capacity machine gun.

[abcd]

oh like the smartgun from aliens

[Random Person]

Originally posted by Foxador:

Originally posted by Random Person:

Gonna need that for whenever the Illuminate show up

Coming soon! In the year 2026

Honestly with the amount of hype and talk about that faction, I know it's going to be a disappointment when they finally decide to release them. Especially when no one liked them in the first game and everyone keeps saying they're the most OP hard race in the game

No one wants to fight the bots, not really, and they're just basically like fighting in a WW2 game or a FPS shooter which people are *supposed* to enjoy. Imagine how bad it's going to be once they put in this super psychic race that can invert your controls or melt your mind or whatever

The issue with bots is the ragdolling. That goes beyond just being hard, since ragdolling both takes away player agency and is wildly inconsistent. None of the factions in the original Helldivers had this issue, since ragdoll mechanics weren't a thing. Illuminate "mind control" was really just the game inverting your controls, so you technically still had complete control of your character, it would just be difficult to work with without a lot of practice. Also to say no one liked them in the first game is blatantly wrong, a lot of Helldivers 1 players seem to like them due to their relative lack of armor, which allowed you to pick weapons on higher difficulties that the other factions simply wouldn't.

That being said even then I wouldn't nobody wants to fight the bots. Even if they're the minority, there are people who enjoy bots more than bugs. I myself can't really be entertained fighting bugs for long at this stage of the game, since I feel like combating them is basically just a matter of running around and shooting, I struggle to really be engaged with it for long. Bots, even with the ragdolling getting kinda annoying, are overall much more enjoyable for me, since the added threat the bots pose and the complications that come with fighting a ranged enemy means you can't really afford to just not think about it much. I know I'll be playing the Illuminate a lot, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that given how distinct they will be to play against compared to the other factions, its bound to appeal to a good number of people.

[Koala 4peace]

Originally posted by Foxador:

Which is my point as it got nerfed from 50 to 35 which might not seem like a lot but it's a 30% decrease. Add in that durable damage also can get lowered even further because of enemies having damage resistance and that number gets even lower. An enemy with 50% durable resistance use to take 25 damage but now takes 17 damage. And that gets worse the more resistance the enemy has. Even with 50% durable resistance you need two bullets or twice the amount of ammunition to equal the damage you did before. With 100 rounds in the chamber that's asking a lot

They also made it so the bullets lost their penetration on angles which hurts a lot against the bugs because of how angular they are. I've had bullets bounce off of warriors plenty of times and no I don't mean the buffed versions of them, I mean the basic warriors because hitting their legs at certain angles causes your bullets to bounce off of them

Wait a moment. I thought that durability was the resistance. There is also a modifier to nullify that damage? Ain't that what armor is for?

Originally posted by Straph:

An echo chamber does nothing to foster understanding of different perspectives, nor does it make my arguments sound or logical. If my argument cannot withstand scrutiny, differing opinions, facts, or viewpoints, and I am unwilling to consider others' arguments, then there is no point in having a discussion at all.

And yet this is exactly what you are doing...

[Foxador]

Originally posted by Koala 4peace:

Wait a moment. I thought that durability was the resistance. There is also a modifier to nullify that damage? Ain't that what armor is for?

If some enemy is considered to be durable, then only the durable damage from your weapon applies, unfortunately this is a hidden number that you need to look up on a wiki to find out what it is.

On top of the, enemies can have durable resistance, all the way from 0% to 100%. So if a enemy has 50% durable resistance they take 50% durable damage. 0% they just take full standard damage. 100% they take 0 standard damage but full durable damage

Then you have armor matching. If your weapon has a higher pen than the enemies armor, you do full damage. If you match their armor, such as a HMG against a hulk, you're only doing 65% damage. If the armor is higher you do zero damage.

So if you're using the HMG against the hulk it's AP4 vs Armor 4, so you armor match and you're now doing 65% damage or 23 durable damage and 97 standard damage

The hulk is also 60% durable sooooo you're now doing 39 standard damage and 14 durable damage per shot or about 53 damage per shot against the hulks 1,800 health pool

THEN, on top of all of this, you have angled fired. Direct, slight angle, large angle, extreme angle. Direct is less than a 25% angle. Slight is somewhere between 25% and 60%, large is somewhere between 60% and 80% with extreme at greater than 80%. Now the range is more assumed as we only know the cut off angle but that's the general idea.

This accounts for more than just what angle that you're shooting the enemy at, it also counts where you hit the enemy on their hitbox. A lot of enemies have curves, sharp edges or depressions on them. You can hit a enemy head on but hit the wrong angle and have your bullet skip off of the enemy like throwing a rock into water. Or you it might hit a bad angle and do less damage or no damage now

Since the HMG has zero armor pen at extreme angles, there's plenty of times where you can do zero damage against even the most basic of enemies like bot troopers or even bug warriors

[Straph]

Originally posted by Foxador:

Originally posted by Koala 4peace:

Wait a moment. I thought that durability was the resistance. There is also a modifier to nullify that damage? Ain't that what armor is for?

If some enemy is considered to be durable, then only the durable damage from your weapon applies, unfortunately this is a hidden number that you need to look up on a wiki to find out what it is.

On top of the, enemies can have durable resistance, all the way from 0% to 100%. So if a enemy has 50% durable resistance they take 50% durable damage. 0% they just take full standard damage. 100% they take 0 standard damage but full durable damage

Then you have armor matching. If your weapon has a higher pen than the enemies armor, you do full damage. If you match their armor, such as a HMG against a hulk, you're only doing 65% damage. If the armor is higher you do zero damage.

So if you're using the HMG against the hulk it's AP4 vs Armor 4, so you armor match and you're now doing 65% damage or 23 durable damage and 97 standard damage

The hulk is also 60% durable sooooo you're now doing 39 standard damage and 14 durable damage per shot or about 53 damage per shot against the hulks 1,800 health pool

THEN, on top of all of this, you have angled fired. Direct, slight angle, large angle, extreme angle. Direct is less than a 25% angle. Slight is somewhere between 25% and 60%, large is somewhere between 60% and 80% with extreme at greater than 80%. Now the range is more assumed as we only know the cut off angle but that's the general idea.

This accounts for more than just what angle that you're shooting the enemy at, it also counts where you hit the enemy on their hitbox. A lot of enemies have curves, sharp edges or depressions on them. You can hit a enemy head on but hit the wrong angle and have your bullet skip off of the enemy like throwing a rock into water. Or you it might hit a bad angle and do less damage or no damage now

Since the HMG has zero armor pen at extreme angles, there's plenty of times where you can do zero damage against even the most basic of enemies like bot troopers or even bug warriors

Your analysis of the HMG's performance against armored enemies in Helldivers 2 is accurate. The HMG's armor penetration matching enemy armor results in reduced damage (65%), and its effectiveness is further diminished by durable resistance and ricochets at extreme angles, sometimes causing zero damage. These limitations make the HMG less effective against heavy enemies like the commander or chargers, especially when compared to weapons like the Spear or Recoilless Rifle, which excel at delivering massive damage in a single, precise shot with far less risk.

[Vohlm]

give it small radius explosive ammo and you kinda offset all its cons
would offset armor penalties as well as ammo economy by providing better group clear against swarm enemies