The Flamethrower / Chem Sprayer stratgem...

[FinaL]

... need one thing, in my opinion: The ability to close Bugholes / Burn-corrode down factories.

I also would like it when they would give the Flamethrower some "pressure" that could stagger smaller enemies ;_;

Also, it would be quite nice when the Chem sprayer would leave a lingering chem cloud... for now, it's just a worse flamethrower in my opinion

Edit 10.11.2024: So after processing the brainstorming in the topic I want to give pointers for interested posters (and hopefully Arrowhead) that may make these Stratgems more enjoyable:

Flamethrower Stratgem

• Add "Panik!" to the Bugs and other biological lifeforms. Let them stumble around for 1-2 seconds and slow them down like they were hit by earthquake, regaining their speed after 3 seconds
  
• Let Fire damage "kill" bug holes and fabricators -> give bug holes health Let it take 5 seconds to of constant fire stream from a Flamethrower to kill the hole // Destroy the fabricator

Chemsprayer Stratgem

• Change the behaviour of the Chemsprayer -> it uses a different Chemical than the orbital Chem or the Chem grenades: ACID (Change name to ACIDSPRAYER)
  • Why? Because I can imagine that Arrowhead wants to add more Chem related weapons or ammo types. And ACID ammo could be completly different then CHEM ammo. See the changes I have in mind
• Deals constant damage to the target you spray at, but much less than the Flamethrower
  
• Adds a slight damage DoT to the Target - ticks the same like it ticks now
  
• Add corrode armour debuff: Armour rating of the affected unit is reduced by -1, soften them for JOLLY COOPERATION. Debuff holds for 15 seconds when not sprayed at. Needs 3 seconds of constant spraying to receive debuff.
  
• Add a debuff that becomes worse the longer you "spray" the target that reduces movement speed of the affected unit, begin with 30% reduction up to maximum 85%. The maximum is reached after 3 seconds of exposure to the Chemsprayer effect - debuff holds for 15 seconds when exposure ends, targets regain speed steadily till the 15 seconds are reached.
  
• SUGGESTION: Make ACID weapons use green gas / spray. Make CHEM weapons use PURPLE gas / spray (and of course corresponding debuff effect)
  
• Let ACID damage "kill" bug holes and fabricators -> give bug holes health Let it take 7 seconds to of constant ACID stream from a ACIDSPRAYER to kill the hole // Destroy the fabricator

So the weapons would be more distinctive and have more value (in my opinion)

What do you think ?

[Frost Spectre]

All flamethrowers should be able to burn bug holes to collapse, not instantly when the stream of fire hits, the bug holes should have HP like Fabricators do now, but only thing that damages them is fire damage.

[Tahla]

Sounds reasonable, question is how that will interact with napalm stratagems, since they can't close bug holes right now, at least not reliably.

At the very least they should disable spawns for a while so you have time to close them in another way because fire will go out and gas will dissipate eventually.

[FinaL]

Originally posted by Frost Spectre:

All flamethrowers should be able to burn bug holes to collapse, not instantly when the stream of fire hits, the bug holes should have HP like Fabricators do now, but only thing that damages them is fire damage.

Yeah

Originally posted by Tahla:

Sounds reasonable, question is how that will interact with napalm stratagems, since they can't close bug holes right now, at least not reliably.

At the very least they should disable spawns for a while so you have time to close them in another way because fire will go out and gas will dissipate eventually.

Yeah, maybe a flame tongue that comes out as a sign that the holes is temporarly disabled. You can make a hybrid; disabling when flames just hit them and killed when enough damage hit them. The same for the Sterilizer. I mean, the name already says it: STERILIZER!

[Mini The Short]

I think fire/flame throwers should burn down the bug holes health, currently its explosive rounds from MECHs, grenades and artillery adding a fire damage to them will be a nice touch cooking the nest.

[FinaL]

What is your opinion about the Chem cloud from the Chem sprayer ? Do you agree ? Do you disagree ? Why ?

[Mini The Short]

Originally posted by FinaL:

What is your opinion about the Chem cloud from the Chem sprayer ? Do you agree ? Do you disagree ? Why ?

I haven't used the chem stuff yet, from what I seen it doesn't seem useful at all to use, maybe using it in bug holes to force bugs to run out or weaken the hole to bullets for a short time?

[FinaL]

Yeah it's mostly a defensive weapon right now (like the flamethrower) but instead of being killy, it's a "support support weapon"; you're better of with using the flamethrower against them.

However, the gas grenades are GREAT. They are super useful while the Chem Sprayer is awful.

There are for me two solutions:

The debuff+dot from the Chem Sprayer becomes long lasting or even permament and slows down the enemies while reducing their armour value by 1, and also a ticking dot

The Chem Sprayer acts like it acts right now but a cloud of the Chem is lingering around like the Flamethrower does - or makes the ground with some sticky chem-mud that will debuff the enemies all the time when they go over that area (both is the same effect for me, just different approach)

[Adhock]

Originally posted by FinaL:

... need one thing, in my opinion: The ability to close Bugholes / Burn-corrode down factories.

I also would like it when they would give the Flamethrower some "pressure" that could stagger smaller enemies ;_;

Also, it would be quite nice when the Chem sprayer would leave a lingering chem cloud... for now, it's just a worse flamethrower in my opinion

Regarding bug holes, no. There's no method that actually collapses the bug holes with spray weapons which means they can just move in and take over again. The point of collapsing is ensuring they are destroyed PERMANENTLY and can't be reused. Only explosives can achieve that.

Take the Grenade pistol if you really need something to clean bug holes with a spray weapon.

Stagger is 'stopping power'. Fire doesn't have 'stopping power' the same way that a solid mass like a slug impacting you does. Or an Arc weapon playing havoc with electrical/nervous systems causing erratic twitching. Therefore it doesn't make sense for it to have stagger. You have a DOT. Use it.

Chem Sprayer DOES in fact have a lingering chem cloud. It has a DOT effect that can spread like the Flamethrower. It's just weaker. That's because gas weapons produce a blind/frenzy effect that cause enemies to lose sight of you and start attacking at random.

And since friendly fire is on, enemies are more likely to blunder into and attack each other because they can't see what they're attacking.

Spray a bunch of Hunters and Warriors then back off and eat popcorn while you bet on who kills who. Or who succumbs to the gas DOT first.

The Sterilizer is an excellent crowd control weapon. You can use it to take pressure off your team to allow you to escape or let your heavy weapon specialists line up shots without pressure to ensure they don't miss.

[gothicpando]

Fire needs to stagger or hesitate bugs. It's fire.

[Wutever]

Whatever the Flamethrower needs is very minor. The weapons is already decent, it just lacks that special something to make it really good.

I don't think the chem thrower would be any good even if it was able to close holes. At least the other chemical stratagems let you do damage while they CC enemies. With the Sterilizer you're just doing zero DPS with no upsides. Not even an aoe.

[Frost Spectre]

Originally posted by gothicpando:

Fire needs to stagger or hesitate bugs. It's fire.

Probably a one impact of stagger, then the enemy has cooldown until they can be "fire staggered" again, since Flamethrowers are technically "beam" weapons, so they would be just staggering enemies like crazy othervise for dealing lots of hits per second if each hit would stagger them.

[FinaL]

Originally posted by Frost Spectre:

Originally posted by gothicpando:

Fire needs to stagger or hesitate bugs. It's fire.

Probably a one impact of stagger, then the enemy has cooldown until they can be "fire staggered" again, since Flamethrowers are technically "beam" weapons, so they would be just staggering enemies like crazy othervise for dealing lots of hits per second if each hit would stagger them.

I agree

[Cheez3™]

Originally posted by gothicpando:

Fire needs to stagger or hesitate bugs. It's fire.

or scare them, making bugs lock into another diver of jumping around it, when I see bugs walking into the fire it breaks a bit the inmersion, devs never been close to a IRL fire, cuz that thing pushes u away, 400 °c aint no joke, u can be like 6 meters away and feel the preassure.

[Tahla]

If fire would scare enemies then it would be less effective since they wouldn't walk into it to get set on fire and keep the dot going. If anything spray weapons need to slow down enemies so you can at least get some distance, they both prevent oxygen (or whatever else they breath) intake so a slow would be a reasonable addition.

[DOOM_Dwarf]

Originally posted by gothicpando:

Fire needs to stagger or hesitate bugs. It's fire.

This. Been saying this for a long time.