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Not knocked back and staggered like when shot with shotguns or the Liberator Concussive, but outright stunned.
Larger targets need a couple shots, but the smaller ones are stopped by a single bullet.
It was a strong primary on both fronts before everything else got massive buffs.
You can suppress bug patrols with it and not let them call in a breach if you spread out the shots on them, its not the fastest TTK ofc but it reloads fast and has enough bullets and damage to deal with a bunch of weaker enemies without really letting them do anything.
I think it should get buffed but its not a terrible weapon at all with the hopefully obvious condition that you either play around teammate/s or have a pistol/support weapon that can deal with medium armor just like any other Light pen primary.
It is kinda garbage against the bots though, wont deny that.
Probably only somewhat decent with the BallS-hield but that would be overdosing on Copium and ignoring Rocket Striders and the fact you are not taking anything else than the BallS-hield in its slot as well.
would it not be better to kill an enemy quicker than to stun it for longer? if you can kill the bug in 2 seconds, isnt that better than to stun it for 4 seconds and blast a whole mag at it?
See it more like a automatic SMG that staggers enemies if you hit them a couple of times.
Its very much a situational utility weapon, I would never recommend anyone using it as their main primary but on missions where you carry stuff it can be very useful and the "stun" makes it imo the best SMG/pistol for that task.
Its also a very good kiting weapon but you would have to make a build around that to really see much value in it, flamethrower to set the ground on fire while you speedily run around with the SMG shooting backwards and able to react to jumping Hunters super fast etc.
9/10 you are better off with another primary for sure.. but that goes for all the SMGs unless you planned something for the SMG.
In a very simplified terms, stagger has stages going from slowdown to stopped in place, to acting all dizzy. It's a state that's accumulative and goes from one stage to another as the enemy receives sufficient damage to break a threshold. Each shot from every weapon has a stagger value per shot along with pure damage output. Pummeler is designed to have this specific value much higher than it's weapon class would suggest.
Well, the original question was purely about Pummeler/Defender comparison and the responses were in that regard only.
Of course, but there definitely is no such huge disparity in damage between the Defender and the Pummeler. This is something like a difference between an (H)MG and the SMGs - a completely different class of weapons.
When comparing these two, Pummeler kills things in almost the exact same efficiency as the Defender, whether it's a full mag per enemy or near-instakill, plus it stuns. If you find yourself mag dumping an enemy to kill them, it'd be the same story if you were using the Defender. The extra stun is useful in these situations because it prevents that enemy from fighting back or catching up to you.
The animation is recognizable: they shake their heads (bugs have a head?) like if they are dizzy trying to recover. The pummeler is useful for mass control.
I usually do the combo pummeler to stagger, throw gas grenade to disorient them and flamethrower to burn them. At least is the combo that I like and it's fun to me.
Tried the Pummeler against bugs again (hadn't used it since release) and didn't find it very useful. D10 dive on a Nuke Nursery mission. It's worse TTK compared to Defender was showing. Against Hunters and Warriors I found the stun to be generally useless as the Defender can stagger Hunters and it kills Warriors much faster than the Pummeler does.
Against things like the Hiveguard or Alpha Commander it wasn't very useful being able to stun them. I'm better off just killing them quickly with a Senator or my anti-medium support weapon.
Here's the final result of the Pummeler match. I only did this match to test the Pummeler on D10 and I wasn't trying to farm kills. Did a full map clear.
https://litter.catbox.moe/0nsaml.png
Here's some footage of me soloing a Nuke Nursery with the Defender including fending off the breeches that spawn during it. If I had the Pummeler here it would have been more difficult for me for no real gain.
https://litter.catbox.moe/2rxuvc.mp4
(Just posting these to show I didn't have trouble using either weapon)
I was using the same guns in both matches - Pummeler/Defender, RR, & Senator. While the Pummeler by no means stops me from being effective, it just feels overall worse than the Defender. Defender is an S rank gun for me with the builds I use it in.
You might be thinking "Well why not just kill them instead?" In situations where there are enough enemies to force you out of whatever position you're in, you may not be able to do that. It can save your life against a horde of Berserkers or a group of especially ambitious Brood Commanders.
It's also really solid option for one-handed weapons if you want to be able to carry packages and quite possible the best weapon outside of maybe crossbow if you're running ballistic shield.
We're now firmly in the "personal taste" category here and I feel like arguing it will simply be fruitless. I don't see any substantial difference, you do, and let's leave it at that
I don't even entertain the idea of stun against these guys. Trash mobs die from a gentle breeze. I only care about it when it comes to bigger threats like Stalkers or Berserkers
See, here is where I do find value. Of course it's better to just kill them faster, however my attitude towards Primaries has always been that of a "Plan B" weapon. If I outfit myself with something like an RR, then the rest of my set up will be anti-trash mobs, like Gatling (both sentry and barrage) and if I go with an MG, then the rest will be anti-tank.
I use the the Primary weapons in two instances - when the enemy is too insignificant for the big guns or when the ♥♥♥♥ hits the fan so hard I need a backup tool. So basically, you'll find me shooting at the Alpha Commander if it's either alone and easy pickings or if it and its friends managed to push through an already prepared cavalcade of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ (like spawncamping the breach with eagle runs, gatling barrage and gatling sentry) I prepared before hand.
Stun simply ensures me that things won't go out of hand in both cases and I like that extra insurance in comparison to the Defender (because, again, I barely feel the TTK difference).
Now, is the Pummeler my default go to option on bugs? No, not anymore, but I will always take the current Pummeler over the current Defender, everytime.