[Suggestion] Energy shield as a core mechanic

[Malidictus]

Disclaimer: I understand this is a contentious proposal and it's probably not going to be popular. But please, hear me out at least.



Currently, the Shield Backpack does quite a few things - it offers extra durability, conditional protection from status effects, protection from knockback, etc. While this is all powerful (powerful enough that it got nerfed once already), there's another aspect that I personally consider to be completely transformative: it offers a health buffer. While the shield itself isn't particularly powerful, it allows players to take a small amount of damage at effectively no long-term cost.

I personally feel this mechanic is far too impactful and far too significant to be tied to an individual item. As such, here's my "controversial" proposal:



Give everyone a regenerating shield

Basically, turn what is currently the Shield Backpack into a core game mechanic that everyone has access to regardless of their loadout. This ensures that players will only have to dip into their healing resources (i.e. Stims) if they make significant mistakes, rather than accumulating minor chip damage over time. It means we can afford to take a hit from a Scavenger or a shot from a Trooper without losing health, but exposing ourselves to significant enemy fire would still kill us. It means, in essence, that we don't get punished for every minor mistake.



Variety

When I say "give everyone a regenerating shield", that doesn't mean give them THE SAME shield. A while ago, Twinbeard (I think) speculated on making armour classes more diverse. "Shield" gives us another few variables to tweak. Some armour sets could have more shield health than others, or regen shields faster than others.

For instance, Light armour could come with high shield health but very slow shield regen, meaning Light Armour users would need to employ hit-and-run tactics. Heavy Armour, by contrast, can have comparatively weaker shields, but with very fast shield regen, meaning they can absorb a lot more damage during a stand-and-fight encounter. And this is just off the top of my head.

While I wouldn't want this as it goes against my original suggestion, you could also tie this shield to specific armour classes, like shield only for Heavy or shield only for specific armour Perks. There are options to explore.



What about the actual Shield Backpack?

If we give everyone a regenerating shield, what do we do with the dedicated Shield Backpack? We can't just remove it from the game, so what else?

Well, the most direct, dirt-simple solution is for the backpack to simply increase shield health when equipped. That ought to be easy to programme, thought it would also be kind of boring. We have a "Backpack Action" button that only a single backpack actually uses. Why not do something with that?

Instead of providing a permanent regenerating shield, what if the Shield Backpack instead provided a shield with a LOT of health but limited duration when activated? That's how the Strategem Shield Generator works, after all. Trip the backpack, get a shield for, say, 10 seconds, then the pack goes on cooldown for 30-60 seconds. Optionally, it could consume ammo like the Guard Dog backpack, in order to moderate uses.

Alternately, we can treat the Shield Backpack like an energy weapon. Activate the pack to trigger the shield and it starts filling up a heat bar over time. Fill up the bar and the pack shuts down. You then have to either wait for a cooldown or reactivate the pack at the cost of its internal ammo. That way, players need to manage their shields.

At the end of the day, I'm spitballing ideas for a more interesting Shield Backpack with actual gameplay to it.



In conclusion

Basically, I feel that moving Shield Backpack functionality to a core mechanic and making the backpack itself more interesting to use would be an overall positive. Yes, it could lead to power creep. I personally feel that Helldivers could use a little bit of power creep as it currently stands. Too much is obviously a bad thing, but a bit could help make the game a bit more dynamic.

[Katitoff]

Or you can just play the game as intended and use cover vs automatons, smoke and flank them to take zero damage in the first place.

Game is already easy, even on 8, no need to make it trivial, if you feel you NEED these benefits, bring backpack with you.

[Aestrea]

If you need a shield that bad, just land on a team mate with a shield and pick up their shield on every reinforce.

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by Katitoff:

Game is already easy, even on 8, no need to make it trivial, if you feel you NEED these benefits, bring backpack with you.

Originally posted by Aestrea:

If you need a shield that bad, just land on a team mate with a shield and pick up their shield on every reinforce.

I never claimed to "need these benefits". My argument was based in mechanics and the overall flow of the game. Right now, it's pretty easy to amass damage over time from minor scrapes and bruises. A minor regenerating shield helps prevent that, punishing players only for more significant mistakes - which at least to me feels better to play.

It also opens the door to making a more interesting and less passive Shield Backpack.

[That person]

Lame

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

Give everyone a regenerating shield

All that does is necessitate a rebalance of the game's enemies to take into account that people have a regenerating shield. Thus negating the utility of the shield.

Originally posted by Malidictus:

Basically, turn what is currently the Shield Backpack into a core game mechanic that everyone has access to regardless of their loadout. This ensures that players will only have to dip into their healing resources (i.e. Stims) if they make significant mistakes, rather than accumulating minor chip damage over time.

Honestly, i'd rather have the ability to stim when at full health than turn the shield back into a core mechanic. I generally know when i am about to take chip damage, because i am jumping down a rock or dodging and weaving on a retreat from bots. Either case the ability to pre-stim would be much more useful, without necessitating a rebalance of every enemy in the game.

Originally posted by Malidictus:

For instance, Light armour could come with high shield health but very slow shield regen, meaning Light Armour users would need to employ hit-and-run tactics.

Except that slow shield regen means you are punished for hit and run tactics. You have it absolutely backwards. Heavy armor should have high shield health and slow regen, so you can step out into fire, take damage and end the fight. If not get into cover again and throw a bunch of airstrikes and orbitals to soften them up.

Meanwhile the Light armor zipping in and out of cover shouldn't have high shield health but regen near instantly when in cover. That means you can actually do hit and run, because you are already running when they open fire on you, and you don't need to hide behind a rock for a small eternity, keeping you out of the fight.

Originally posted by Malidictus:

What about the actual Shield Backpack?

If we give everyone a regenerating shield, what do we do with the dedicated Shield Backpack? We can't just remove it from the game, so what else?

Why can't it be removed from the game? There is no law stating it needs to exist. You can just remove it, refund everyone the requisition to unlock, if you feel generous and call it a day.

Originally posted by Malidictus:

At the end of the day, I'm spitballing ideas for a more interesting Shield Backpack with actual gameplay to it.

You haven't convinced me of your idea in the first place. Especially the fact that this would need to rebalance the game in its entirety to account for regenerating shields alone makes me dubious why this was needed. Especially considering they just could let us stim when at full health and thus give us a temporary regenerating health pool protecting from chip damage.

Originally posted by Malidictus:

Basically, I feel that moving Shield Backpack functionality to a core mechanic and making the backpack itself more interesting to use would be an overall positive.

I disagree. I see no utility in this and it would fundamentally change the feel of the game, which might break the game.

Originally posted by Malidictus:

Yes, it could lead to power creep.

No, it will lead to power creep. There is no way to do this without power creep. Even if you'd go and say "the armor value provided by armors is a regenerating health pool", you'd undoubtedly make all the Helldivers more powerful and less reliant on Stims. Over all your stims would last much longer, making you in turn more powerful.

That is power creep, and your suggestion is even more potent than that.

Originally posted by Malidictus:

I personally feel that Helldivers could use a little bit of power creep as it currently stands.

I don't. I think Helldivers is in a good spot right now when it comes to balance. Certainly in comparison to the first 2 weeks when every loadout was "Orbital Laser, Orbital Railcannon, Shield Backpack and Railgun".

Right now the game is in a good spot, because you don't need to crutch on a Shieldbackpack, as you can bring a heavier armor. And if you really need to you can still bring the Shield Backpack.

But i've been running light armor without shield backpack, surviving on diving and positioning alone and i wouldn't want that to change. I do not think giving everyone a shield backpack is good for the game. People tunnel vision way to hard with it. And then you get even more "hunters are overpowered" forum threads... because they never learned to keep looking around and properly threat assess. Why? Because their health regenerates.

[Sammy]

You know it is gonna be unpopular so what do you expect to happen? If they don't even add popular suggestions or whatever, imagine unpopular ones.

[Formous]

While I understand the thought...this isn't halo. The shield pack is there to emphasize its a piece of gear. Overall though, helldivers get some pretty cheap gear items. You get a shield only if you pick it for a mission.

[Eudicots]

What I am missing from this is how the difficulty would be adjusted. Right now you can easily do Helldive without a shield backpack with some of the strongest weapons in the game taking up a backpack slot. How would you plan to adjust the difficulty to prevent this change from trivializing the game?

[Axis of Lint]

Originally posted by Eudicots:

What I am missing from this is how the difficulty would be adjusted. Right now you can easily do Helldive without a shield backpack with some of the strongest weapons in the game taking up a backpack slot. How would you plan to adjust the difficulty to prevent this change from trivializing the game?

This. I didn't use shield backpack for a long time when I was playing for the first probably 150 hours. I've only recently started using it because I'm running sickle + quasar and I don't need ammo as much (I used to run supply backpack) and my team has gotten much better at ammo management in general. I still switch between it, supply and one of the drone backpacks fairly interchangeably.

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by Sammy:

You know it is gonna be unpopular so what do you expect to happen? If they don't even add popular suggestions or whatever, imagine unpopular ones.

You never know if you don't try. If it comes to nothing, then that's fair enough. However, there's an off chance someone might gel with the suggestion. And if not, well - I'll live :)

Originally posted by Formous:

While I understand the thought...this isn't halo. The shield pack is there to emphasize its a piece of gear. Overall though, helldivers get some pretty cheap gear items. You get a shield only if you pick it for a mission.

Fair enough. Though my argument was that "health buffer" is a fairly fundamental, game-changing mechanic. Generally speaking, I feel those work better as game-wide systems, rather than attached to individual items with an opportunity cost. Nothing else currently in the game quite does that, at least in terms of things we can pick.

I would liken the Shield mechanic to Resupplies, if I may make a comparison. It's something that you don't necessarily need (pubbies usually eat all the Resupplies anyway...), and yet it still works better as a game-wide system than an elective Strategem like it was in Helldivers 1. Granted, it's still A Strategem, but bringing it on a mission has no opportunity cost.

Then again, the same could apply to health regen if we ever get the healing backpack from Helldivers 1. So I guess that's fair enough.

Originally posted by Eudicots:

What I am missing from this is how the difficulty would be adjusted. Right now you can easily do Helldive without a shield backpack with some of the strongest weapons in the game taking up a backpack slot. How would you plan to adjust the difficulty to prevent this change from trivializing the game?

I'm not well-versed enough in the game's numbers (that players don't even get to see) to really speculate. Granted, I do agree that SOME adjustment will probably be necessary, though I'm not sure what kind. Giving players a health buffer is roughly equivalent to giving us limited passive sustain, so that's not a neutral change under any circumstances.

At the same time, though, I'm of the opinion that Helldivers 2 can use a bit of power creep over all. I'm sure we'll start seeing difficulty creep before too long. Helldivers 1 ended up with 15 or so. I don't know how viable that is, however.

I don't THINK this would trivialise the game, but it would certainly remove some of the challenge.

[adobo]

No amount of extra hitpoints is gonna save you from being terrible at not getting shot at.

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by adobo:

No amount of extra hitpoints is gonna save you from being terrible at not getting shot at.

This is true. A slight bit of extra shield would allow me to trade some amount of damage at no cost, however. That can paper over minor scrapes and bruises from not playing quite perfectly.

[adobo]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

This is true. A slight bit of extra shield would allow me to trade some amount of damage at no cost, however. That can paper over minor scrapes and bruises from not playing quite perfectly.

I do that by popping stims while running to different parts of the map because it refills your stamina while under stims. Honestly, I wish I can stim without being hurt.

[Spikebomb5]

It'd be cool but i dont see them revamping the game just to do this. It's just like other recs like armor overhaul: heavier armor=more perks. We still dont even have recolors or weapon/stratagem upgrades

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by adobo:

I do that by popping stims while running to different parts of the map because it refills your stamina while under stims. Honestly, I wish I can stim without being hurt.

Bit off-topic, but I agree. In fact, the ability to use Stims while at full health seems to be one of the few things the forums universally agree on. I've yet to see anyone argue against it.

Originally posted by Spikebomb5:

It'd be cool but i dont see them revamping the game just to do this. It's just like other recs like armor overhaul: heavier armor=more perks. We still dont even have recolors or weapon/stratagem upgrades

All in due time, I think. There seems to be appetite on Arrowhead's part to do more with Armour, and I personally think they should. Right now, armour classes are honestly quite dull - just stat tweaks on mobility vs. health. Tying shields to armour instead of backpack would open a couple of extra vectors for differentiation, which was part of why I felt compelled to post this in the first place.

But yes, you're probably right. At this stage, significant paradigm changes like this are quite unlikely. Honestly, I hope that Helldivers sticks around for years. I'd love to see the game grow and evolve with the playerbase. Not a lot of Live Services really deserve that, but this one does, I think.