Ballistic Shield Backpack - Toggle to keep it on your back even with a one handed weapon.

[Hero Unit]

The SH-20 Ballistic Shield Backpack is fun but it could be even more fun with a simple tweak - Allow the already existing "Use Backpack Function" key (currently only used to resupply from the Supply Backpack) to swap the backpack from your hand to your back when holding a 1 Handed trait weapon.

Examples on why this would be useful and fun:
1. You are using an SMG/Pistol - you want to first person aim, you press a key and it swaps to your back, providing protection to your back while you FPS aim with your primary.

2. You are using an SMG/Pistol - you want to run away from enemies and want the shield on your back to protect your rear while maintaining access to your primary weapon to engage enemies in your path during your retreat. You simply hit the button to toggle the shield to your back and you're ready to go.

For QoL, the Shield would remember the last setting you used every time you swapped between your Primary and Support weapon. This would allow smooth operation and give the user better control.

[Katitoff]

Originally posted by Midas:

Does the shield actually protect your back when you're not holding it?

Yes.
It will also completely tank direct tank or turret shot, it will be destroyed, but you'll take zero damage.

[xSOSxHawkens]

So I doubt we will see this due to controller use. Remember that this is a PS5 title too with parity on features, meaning it is also fully supportive of Xbox/PS controllers on PC too.

As simple as I can put it, I just dont see a way for them to implement this feature on controller without it being needlessly complicated, as the controllers inputs are all already in use in other ways, and some of them in secondary ways through button pairing. Anything more and, as a full time controller user, they will be heading into territory where most would consider it unwieldy.

The devs (likely and hopefully) wont throw a giant wrench in the mechanics for all PS5 users and all PC Controller players just to make a unique control feature easier because of KB/M.

This is simply a compromise that PC-KB/M specific players will have to deal with, as are the compromises that controller users (PC and Console) also deal with. Compromises are a two way street where neither gets things perfect as they desire.

[xSOSxHawkens]

Originally posted by Hero Unit:

Originally posted by xSOSxHawkens:

So I doubt we will see this due to controller use. Remember that this is a PS5 title too with parity on features, meaning it is also fully supportive of Xbox/PS controllers on PC too.

As simple as I can put it, I just dont see a way for them to implement this feature on controller without it being needlessly complicated, as the controllers inputs are all already in use in other ways, and some of them in secondary ways through button pairing. Anything more and, as a full time controller user, they will be heading into territory where most would consider it unwieldy.

The devs (likely and hopefully) wont throw a giant wrench in the mechanics for all PS5 users and all PC Controller players just to make a unique control feature easier because of KB/M.

This is simply a compromise that PC-KB/M specific players will have to deal with, as are the compromises that controller users (PC and Console) also deal with. Compromises are a two way street where neither gets things perfect as they desire.

You have no clue what you are talking about and you failed to read the OP. There is an already existing button in game that would perform the feature I am asking and controller users can already use it by pressing dpad down on their controller.

Here is the quote you didn't read from the first sentence of the OP:

Originally posted by OP:

Allow the already existing "Use Backpack Function" key (currently only used to resupply from the Supply Backpack) to swap the backpack from your hand to your back when holding a 1 Handed trait weapon.

Oh, I read the entire thing.

But for what to you will be a single button press, will be to a controller user a hold of a button that requires use of the thumb that otherwise controls movement (meaning you are standing still to use it) + the selection of a wheel menu using your aiming input (that already has 4 options, 4 specifically as its a 'hard to mess up selection' which will be cluttered at 5) and then has to have timed release on the correct selection.

Basically, to you the requested feature will be useful to you because of the ease on KB/M *for you*. To me, as a controller user, its a feature with highly limited use (even as someone who likes the shield) and the limited use is* out-weighed by the intrusive complication it would add to an already layered control scheme.

Or, TL:DR - It would over complicate things for controller users for a minimal (and arguable) benefit to KB/M specific players.

In a cross platform game, where one platform is all controllers, and the other is split with more controllers on PC than many realize, its easy to see why its not likely to happen.

[SilentHero]

Originally posted by dyra55:

Yes please

+ 1

[xSOSxHawkens]

Originally posted by Hero Unit:

Originally posted by xSOSxHawkens:

Oh, I read the entire thing.

But for what to you will be a single button press, will be to a controller user a hold of a button that requires use of the thumb that otherwise controls movement (meaning you are standing still to use it) + the selection of a wheel menu using your aiming input (that already has 4 options, 4 specifically as its a 'hard to mess up selection' which will be cluttered at 5) and then has to have timed release on the correct selection.

Basically, to you the requested feature will be useful to you because of the ease on KB/M *for you*. To me, as a controller user, its a feature with highly limited use (even as someone who likes the shield) and the limited use if out-weighed by the intrusive complication it would add to an already layered control scheme.

Or, TL:DR - It would over complicate things for controller users for a minimal (and arguable) benefit to KB/M specific players.

In a cross platform game, where one platform is all controllers, and the other is split with more controllers on PC than many realize, its easy to see why its not likely to happen.

So you're arguing against this feature because you have extremely poor dexterity and can't reliably hit dpad down? You can rebind the key to something else btw. What next, should we start removing buttons from the game so a person who only has one arm has an easier time playing? By your argument, we may as well remove the supply backpack altogether because it requires you press dpad down (if not rebound) to even use at all, whereas the Ballistic Shield works without ever pressing dpad down.

Are you going to triple down with an even more obtuse post now or just do the right thing and concede your post is very silly?

To be clear, even if you refuse to ever use the feature, the Ballistic Shield would still function exactly the same for you. It would just have an added QoL benefit for literally the entire rest of the playerbase including controller users.

You come off strong as someone who has zero exerpiance playing games with a controller lol.

This has nothing to do with dexterity and everything to do with biology and facts.

Fact is, with any current controller design (Xbox, PS, Wii, or any competitor) the controller design combined with the reality of how human hands are shaped results in 99/100 users having a total of 4-6 inputs *possible* at any given time, depending on if the user involves their middle fingers on the bumpers/triggers or not (some users play with thumbs on sticks + pointers on bumpers and middles on triggers, but *MOST* players use the 4 input method with thumbs on sticks and pointers on triggers/bumpers, with middle fingers used as needed on bumper/trigger duty).

Now, with that laid out, you tell me. How does one press D-Pad down, while selecting from the radial menu, while *also* maintaining movement and ability to aim?

Go ahead, try and provide an answer, I will wait...

OK, enough waiting, the answer is you cant. First the game design already wont let you, but second even if it did short of being some magical hand contortionist there is no way to actually do it with any reasonable repeatability or accuracy.

There is a difference between:

"arguing against this feature because you have extremely poor dexterity"

and

arguing against this feature because no current controller design supports such inputs with any ease.

*I will note* - Some controllers are starting to have back bumpers that solve this. The Xbox Elite controller, the Steam Deck, and many third party controllers are starting to implement 4 buttons for the under fingers to press on the back of the controller. This solves the issue entirely, and opens up a *ton* more flexibility in controller use.

That said, this is a new feature still not standard on any current console. We are probably still 5-10 years from mass adoption and support on this. Till then the above reality on current controllers holds true.

[xSOSxHawkens]

Originally posted by Hero Unit:

tl;dr but thanks for helping my thread stay active. Whatever you said is also wrong btw.

lol, creates post, decides the opposing side is wrong and then outright dismisses any input from them. Outright communicates that the OP is neither reading the input or have any intention on reading any input from opposing view. Simply labels the other views as "wrong btw".

So, basically you created a spam thread with the only intention of accepting parroting of your views of simply ignoring opposing views? A thread not meant as a discussion in a forum, more meant as an echo chamber for your views.

Awesome, glad you were able to lay that out so that the thread can be rightfully viewed as the spam/bait thread it is.

[♥ RainyRayne ♥]

Originally posted by xSOSxHawkens:

Originally posted by Hero Unit:

So you're arguing against this feature because you have extremely poor dexterity and can't reliably hit dpad down? You can rebind the key to something else btw. What next, should we start removing buttons from the game so a person who only has one arm has an easier time playing? By your argument, we may as well remove the supply backpack altogether because it requires you press dpad down (if not rebound) to even use at all, whereas the Ballistic Shield works without ever pressing dpad down.

Are you going to triple down with an even more obtuse post now or just do the right thing and concede your post is very silly?

To be clear, even if you refuse to ever use the feature, the Ballistic Shield would still function exactly the same for you. It would just have an added QoL benefit for literally the entire rest of the playerbase including controller users.

You come off strong as someone who has zero exerpiance playing games with a controller lol.

This has nothing to do with dexterity and everything to do with biology and facts.

Fact is, with any current controller design (Xbox, PS, Wii, or any competitor) the controller design combined with the reality of how human hands are shaped results in 99/100 users having a total of 4-6 inputs *possible* at any given time, depending on if the user involves their middle fingers on the bumpers/triggers or not (some users play with thumbs on sticks + pointers on bumpers and middles on triggers, but *MOST* players use the 4 input method with thumbs on sticks and pointers on triggers/bumpers, with middle fingers used as needed on bumper/trigger duty).

Now, with that laid out, you tell me. How does one press D-Pad down, while selecting from the radial menu, while *also* maintaining movement and ability to aim?

Go ahead, try and provide an answer, I will wait...

OK, enough waiting, the answer is you cant. First the game design already wont let you, but second even if it did short of being some magical hand contortionist there is no way to actually do it with any reasonable repeatability or accuracy.

There is a difference between:

"arguing against this feature because you have extremely poor dexterity"

and

arguing against this feature because no current controller design supports such inputs with any ease.

*I will note* - Some controllers are starting to have back bumpers that solve this. The Xbox Elite controller, the Steam Deck, and many third party controllers are starting to implement 4 buttons for the under fingers to press on the back of the controller. This solves the issue entirely, and opens up a *ton* more flexibility in controller use.

That said, this is a new feature still not standard on any current console. We are probably still 5-10 years from mass adoption and support on this. Till then the above reality on current controllers holds true.

What the actual ♥♥♥♥ are you talking about? I play HD2 exclusively with controller(as I did with HD1) and the backpack functions are easy to use. If what you're saying is true then the resupply backpack must feel awful to use, but it just doesn't.

[♥ RainyRayne ♥]

Also you don't have to select from radial menu to use backpack functions???? Never had to do that with resupply pack.

[xSOSxHawkens]

Originally posted by Rayne:

What the actual ♥♥♥♥ are you talking about? I play HD2 exclusively with controller(as I did with HD1) and the backpack functions are easy to use. If what you're saying is true then the resupply backpack must feel awful to use, but it just doesn't.

Originally posted by Rayne:

Also you don't have to select from radial menu to use backpack functions???? Never had to do that with resupply pack.

At least for me, any time I use the resupply I run up to the person to give them the supply, or I run up to the person to get the supply. Either way I dont use a radial at all. Same for team reloads, just stand near the user and you see the button prompt.

The radial is the menu that shows when pressing and holding down the lower D-Pad, same radial that is used to drop samples.

It can be used for backpacks, but again, due to the whole you have to stand still to do it thing (or cross reach and use right thumb and lose aim) its just easier most of the time to walk up to the person in need or who has the ammo.

Then again, its rare AF for people to have an ammo back pack unless its a random find, and its also rare af to backpack reload anyone. I think I have carried or been resupplied from the resupply backpack once each.

[xSOSxHawkens]

Originally posted by Hero Unit:

Originally posted by Rayne:

Also you don't have to select from radial menu to use backpack functions???? Never had to do that with resupply pack.

He is trying to appear as an expert on the subject, despite having zero clue how it works. Second hand embarrassing. This is what being aggressively wrong looks like.

lol

First, I am pretty sure anyone can pickup an Xbox controller, hold it in their hand, and answer this basic question:

With your thumbs on both sticks, and your fingers on the triggers, can you please press and hold the d-pad down?

Dont think it takes any expert to know the answer to that...

Also, def not aggressive, but OK lmao. Could be wrong on some of the in-game context as I fully admit I dont use things like the backpack and have limited (but still present) experience with them. But I *do* use the radial d-pad menu, and know its clunky at best.

You all act like this is rocket science when someone can look at a picture of the controller, look at their own hands, and very very easily see why this would be difficult in a fast paced movement shooter...

[xSOSxHawkens]

Originally posted by Hero Unit:

Originally posted by xSOSxHawkens:

At least for me, any time I use the resupply I run up to the person to give them the supply, or I run up to the person to get the supply. Either way I dont use a radial at all. Same for team reloads, just stand near the user and you see the button prompt.

The radial is the menu that shows when pressing and holding down the lower D-Pad, same radial that is used to drop samples.

It can be used for backpacks, but again, due to the whole you have to stand still to do it thing (or cross reach and use right thumb and lose aim) its just easier most of the time to walk up to the person in need or who has the ammo.

Then again, its rare AF for people to have an ammo back pack unless its a random find, and its also rare af to backpack reload anyone. I think I have carried or been resupplied from the resupply backpack once each.

"I struggle to press dpad down therefore everyone else on a controller must also struggle to do it."

The developers of the game disagree with you btw that's why the "Use backpack function" button exists. Also, you can rebind the key. You have no argument against this feature that already exists in the game being added to another backpack.

more insults, more dismissive view of the opposition, more ignoring the reality of biological human hand design and the limitations of current controllers. More shutting down the opposing viewpoint entirely sans discussion. GG lmao

[♥ RainyRayne ♥]

Originally posted by xSOSxHawkens:

Originally posted by Rayne:

What the actual ♥♥♥♥ are you talking about? I play HD2 exclusively with controller(as I did with HD1) and the backpack functions are easy to use. If what you're saying is true then the resupply backpack must feel awful to use, but it just doesn't.

Originally posted by Rayne:

Also you don't have to select from radial menu to use backpack functions???? Never had to do that with resupply pack.

At least for me, any time I use the resupply I run up to the person to give them the supply, or I run up to the person to get the supply. Either way I dont use a radial at all. Same for team reloads, just stand near the user and you see the button prompt.

The radial is the menu that shows when pressing and holding down the lower D-Pad, same radial that is used to drop samples.

It can be used for backpacks, but again, due to the whole you have to stand still to do it thing (or cross reach and use right thumb and lose aim) its just easier most of the time to walk up to the person in need or who has the ammo.

Then again, its rare AF for people to have an ammo back pack unless its a random find, and its also rare af to backpack reload anyone. I think I have carried or been resupplied from the resupply backpack once each.

So you don't understand how the resupply pack(and thus this suggestion) works. Just tapping down on dpad self uses the resupply pack, it is your backpack interact key.

[Zeddy]

Originally posted by xSOSxHawkens:

So I doubt we will see this due to controller use. Remember that this is a PS5 title too with parity on features, meaning it is also fully supportive of Xbox/PS controllers on PC too.

I only ever play videogames with a controller and this is just not true. Games industry in general mostly don't care that a button you use sometimes is hard to press. A/X is used constantly for interacting with things you have to turn the camera towards, and that already needs you to lift your thumb off a stick and press a button with it instead. D-pad down is literally the same thing but on the left side.

It's fine to stop for a split second to put away your shield. Keyboard users would to an extent have to do this too, lifting one finger off WASD to press Z or X or whatever they use.

Secondly it could be bound to Aim + A or whatever if they cared about keeping the player's thumb on left stick specifically. This isn't even getting into PS5 elite controllers with extra buttons. Sony would be happy to incentivize more players to buy those I bet.

[xSOSxHawkens]

Originally posted by Hero Unit:

Originally posted by xSOSxHawkens:

So I doubt we will see this due to controller use. As simple as I can put it, I just dont see a way for them to implement this feature on controller without it being needlessly complicated

1. You were not even aware that a button already exists in game "Use Backpack Function" to manipulate a backpack item's function.

Originally posted by xSOSxHawkens:

Now, with that laid out, you tell me. How does one press D-Pad down, while selecting from the radial menu, while *also* maintaining movement and ability to aim?

Go ahead, try and provide an answer, I will wait...

OK, enough waiting, the answer is you cant.

2. After you realized you were wrong, you doubled down by stating the already existing "Use Backpack Function" key requires a radial wheel to access. This is also false, it does not require a radial wheel. You were now wrong on 2 posts.

Originally posted by xSOSxHawkens:

Could be wrong on some of the in-game context as I fully admit I dont use things like the backpack and have limited (but still present) experience with them. But I *do* use the radial d-pad menu, and know its clunky at best.

3. After finally admitting you were wrong, you once again go off topic about the radial wheel, which does not even apply to the "Use Backpack Function" button. Furthermore, you ignore the fact that you can simply rebind the key if you do not like it.

This is what being aggressively wrong looks like. You are wrong in multiple posts, back to back, and double, triple, and quadruple down on being wrong because your pride won't allow you to admit you have no clue what you are talking about.

1) I was well aware of the button and how it works.
2) There was no realization as I already knew how it works and that it was there.
3) There as no admission of being wrong, all I admitted to was that I rarely use these features for the obvious reasons (they are clunky at best to use). That instead, on the rare cases where I could/would have used them, I used the easier route offered in game in the moment rather than the one you are mentioning.

Why did I use the other methods? Because as a controller user I am outright of the view that having to use the D-Pad at all for anything outside Stratagems is a pain. By nature of design using the D-Pad results in the direct loss of other inputs. Period.

You are focusing on how the backpack button works in game, and on if I knew about it or not. You are down the wrong rabbit hole.

My contention was not if it exists or how its used. It was that any further layering or any further use of the controller, beyond what is already mapped out for default controls, would be problematic. It would result in more (frankly needless) control clutter.

That's the point. It literally has zero to do with the mechanic. You could be suggesting *anything* and I would reply the same *if the suggestion resulted in further inputs or input layers* on controller. Simple as that.

Just because KB/M has inputs galore does not mean controllers do. This game, as is, already uses every input on a controller, plus more through layers. It does not need more added on top of that. Its already (in the realm of controller games) in the upper tiers of controller complexity. If they go further it will reach a point of alienation for users who main controllers. As is I know 3 people who main controllers in all their games who have openly complained about the controller inputs in this game. Not that they are hard or anything, just that they are complex compared to anything else they play.

In a game where over half the install base likely uses controllers.

IMO the only one who ever was "aggresive" here is you OP, through your insults and dismissiveness. If anything you come off strong as someone who would stand with a sign and shout in people faces. You have made such a big deal about the reason for the input. You have consistently ignored that my whole stance the whole time has been on the ergonomics and the bilogical usability of current controller designs and the limits they impose. Too blinded by the upset that someone would possibly say this is a bad idea, or one that is unlikely to happen, for you to even read what I wrote.

And before you try and double back and say you bothered reading, let me remind you:

Originally posted by Hero Unit:

tl;dr but thanks for helping my thread stay active. Whatever you said is also wrong btw.

(And no, going back after you are upset and posting projections of your own aggressiveness into the reply:

Originally posted by Hero Unit:

Okay I decided to read your aggressively wrong wall of text. You are wrong for the following reasons.
-Normal people can hit dpad down without doing mental gymnastics to explain why they cannot.
-Using the "Use Backpack Function" key does not require a radial wheel, so you don't even understand how the function works despite having extreme confidence that you do.
-You can also just rebind the "Use Backpack Function" key to something else if hitting dpad down causes you PTSD
-The Supply Backpack exists in this game and it can only be used by pressing dpad down or rebinding it to another controller button, so the developers already expect players to be able to do one of those two things.

Do you believe the supply backpack should be removed from the game?

does not count lol).

[xSOSxHawkens]

Originally posted by Hero Unit:

Originally posted by xSOSxHawkens:

1) I was well aware of the button and how it works.
2) There was no realization as I already knew how it works and that it was there.
3) There as no admission of being wrong, all I admitted to was that I rarely use these features for the obvious reasons (they are clunky at best to use). That instead, on the rare cases where I could/would have used them, I used the easier route offered in game in the moment rather than the one you are mentioning.

does not count lol).

1. You were not aware and are now lying. I posted proof you were not aware in a post above.
2. You are lying again.
3. A third lie.

I'm not sure why you're so upset about being wrong but it is helping to keep my thread on the front page so it's cool I guess.

See, now you are just making posts that flat out are grounds for reporting. GG

I dont know why you seem to have such a hard time understanding the reality that you cant keep your two thumbs on the two sticks *and* have them also touch the D-Pad at the same time, or why having to use the D-Pad in combat any more than we already do might be a less than ideal situation.

I dont know why you seem to want to insult and impose your own views on my knowledge, but hey you do you if thats the person you want to be ;)