Enemy spawns too much?

[Drunken Irishman]

I'll be real. I think the enemy spawns (both automatons and terminids) are way too high.

Don't get me wrong, yes, I think it should be a challenge. Though, when you are fighting 5 enemies that either flare or pheromone, you go from taking on 5 to 50 enemies in the matter of 30 seconds. This is simply way too much to have to deal with all those trying to kill you, then running into a patrol, or into an outpost if you are too busy trying to survive to keep a constant eye on the map.

How are we supposed to try and do everything in 40 minutes when you spend the better part of 25-30 minutes fighting off an ever growing horde out to get your blood, then 10 minutes to clean up the map, just to then call in the extraction and wait around in an area flooded with what feels like 100+ enemies, in a very limited area with next to nowhere to hide as there are way too many searching the whole area, or even to fight. You can't even leave the area because I would assume the shuttle pilot is very impatient, and won't even think about swooping down to pick you up if you leave the area just to hide from the hordes of hell for however long you got to wait.

Again, I do think it should be a challenge, but right now with how things are, enemies reminds me of Chavs and Roadmen. A few of them doing whatever they are doing, hear the slightest gust of wind and then they need to call in their friends because they can't stand up for themselves unless they have an overwhelming advantage just to make themselves feel safe by everyone jumping in at you all at once. Then to top it all off, they nerf the f*ck out of weapons, expect you to rely on stratagems which can take up to several minutes to refresh that have only remotely dented their numbers as there are still what feels like thousands trying to hunt you down and kill you.

All they need to do is balance the game by buffing a load of guns, then toning down the rate at which they call for reinforcements by half, which will make managing things a tad bit easier. So instead of fighting 5 to 500 in the span of a minute, it would be having 5 enemies turn to 20 every 30 seconds. While probably not the best fix they could do, it would at least be something so a 40 minute mission would be 15-20 minutes of fighting instead of 30 minutes of action, then trying to do the other stuff (if you like to clean the map like I do)

For context, I play solo during my free time in the day, then in the evening, 1 or 2 mates come on - we play between the difficulties of suicide mission and helldive (depending how our lower level mate feels with his still-somewhat newbie to the game confidence)

This game is amazing, but of all the things they've done right, the artificial difficulty is definitely the exact opposite and just feels like a cheap excuse for making it challenging without putting in any real effort into the areas that need it most. It kind of reminds me of of PUBG or Tarkov where they add more stuff to the game instead of fixing what is broken, then the devs wonder why the games average player base is slowly declining. If not that then just outright nerfing what doesn't need to be nerfed, just to add something much worse - only look at all the sh*t PUBG maps that have been added, like Karakin, Miramar, Haven, Deston, Taego and Paramo, then adding the real good maps like Sanhok to essentially a seasonal rotation and outright removing the ability to pick and choose which maps to play (like they had during the first few years). Not to mention that hacker problem that game had for along time.

As for how that translates to HD2; add bad, nerf good, don't fix what desperately needs fixing until they feel like it at some random time down the line (which could be anywhere between months and years) at which point a player base will be declining, that mostly come back for a new patch/update, then drop the game soon after because something else is broken that puts them all playing (only look at how OP the automaton gunships are, how many can spawn because you are way too pinned down to make a run to destroy the fabs with a hellbomb, and if you do, you wont have time to call it in and arm it before either you die, or it gets destroyed by a thousand infantry and a few vehicles, with a squadron of gunships constantly knocking you off your feet before you even have a chance to take aim and fire)

[Tsuru55]

Zoomers wont read all that

Even me, feel daunted seeing this big text. Despite being a gen that grew up reading HP.

Anyway, yes. Spawns are "currently changing/tested".
We can only blame Devs/Exec/CEO for not hiring pple THAT CANT EVEN BEAT DIFF6
+ trying to slow down players progress

[Tsuru55]

Btw
By failing once Diff7+ and clutch win in another
and seeing other threads

I think in this current Vers. of the game, its better to simply ignore the "side objectives" until the spawns are nerfed.
(Do 1 or 2 max. And i talk about Diff7-8-9. Its fine to do them if low diff)

Bugs spawns are fine but after doing MAIN OBJEC and 2-3 nests, and 10min remains, you totally see the spawns going OVERDRIVE MODE

Also like a guy said : Side object are pointless (no medals) as they only give creds/xp

[Drunken Irishman]

Tis a bit of a harry potter book sized wall of text for sure. I like to add detail to help better explain my reasons for thinking what I do about something. It leaves less to be individually translated per each persons thoughts of what I might mean. I've troubles with not adding detail then everyone adding their own interpretations which just ends up derailing the original point and conversation

[Gene Cousineau]

Skill issue

[[TGU]SOL]

Most times it is the players/teams fault for triggering drops and bug holes on top of events , most missions like samples/fuelling/ssd's will have small groups of light enemies close by , not clearing them out first allows them to trigger extra drops/holes on top of what is already coming your way.

And you don't have to engage every enemy you come across , the amount of time teams waste strategems and ammo attacking patrols miles away and then they trigger drops/holes.

Also bug nests and Bot factories near by your objective will add to attacks so take them out first.

And a pro tip try dropping in on the edge of the map and not on top of shreaker nests or gunship factories.

[Tazkar]

Originally posted by Drunken Irishman:

As for how that translates to HD2; add bad, nerf good, don't fix what desperately needs fixing until they feel like it at some random time down the line (which could be anywhere between months and years) at which point a player base will be declining, that mostly come back for a new patch/update, then drop the game soon after because something else is broken that puts them all playing (only look at how OP the automaton gunships are, how many can spawn because you are way too pinned down to make a run to destroy the fabs with a hellbomb, and if you do, you wont have time to call it in and arm it before either you die, or it gets destroyed by a thousand infantry and a few vehicles, with a squadron of gunships constantly knocking you off your feet before you even have a chance to take aim and fire)

The gunships are op? You're joking right? The only opness of them comes from encountering them and not knowing their weaknesses because you've never seen them before. But they Fall over to anything that has decent Medium Armor Pen.

AMR, Autocannon, Laser Cannon, Quasar Cannon, EAT, Recoiless, Spear.

All of those support weapons can demolish a Gunship in very short order. Some may require targeting an engine to do so but they are all capable of wiping the floor with them. And there are a few other stratagems that are capable of taking out gunships.

While there are legitimate problems with peoples games crashing on evac at higher difficulties and other issues. The new added enemies aren't part of the games problem and actually work to change the dynamic of play, keeping it from getting stale because you've dealt with the same spawns for the hundredth time.

[Sk[A]rMo'Ry2012]

Originally posted by Gene Cousineau:

Skill issue

Brief and accurate

You have a period between alerts, its like 2.30 on helldive. Clear em all out before they call in a new group or tactically retreat if you are not really need to get there

[Drunken Irishman]

Originally posted by Tazkar:

Originally posted by Drunken Irishman:

As for how that translates to HD2; add bad, nerf good, don't fix what desperately needs fixing until they feel like it at some random time down the line (which could be anywhere between months and years) at which point a player base will be declining, that mostly come back for a new patch/update, then drop the game soon after because something else is broken that puts them all playing (only look at how OP the automaton gunships are, how many can spawn because you are way too pinned down to make a run to destroy the fabs with a hellbomb, and if you do, you wont have time to call it in and arm it before either you die, or it gets destroyed by a thousand infantry and a few vehicles, with a squadron of gunships constantly knocking you off your feet before you even have a chance to take aim and fire)

The gunships are op? You're joking right? The only opness of them comes from encountering them and not knowing their weaknesses because you've never seen them before. But they Fall over to anything that has decent Medium Armor Pen.

AMR, Autocannon, Laser Cannon, Quasar Cannon, EAT, Recoiless, Spear.

All of those support weapons can demolish a Gunship in very short order. Some may require targeting an engine to do so but they are all capable of wiping the floor with them. And there are a few other stratagems that are capable of taking out gunships.

While there are legitimate problems with peoples games crashing on evac at higher difficulties and other issues. The new added enemies aren't part of the games problem and actually work to change the dynamic of play, keeping it from getting stale because you've dealt with the same spawns for the hundredth time.

I know those weapons are good at dealing with gunships. The point I was getting at is that when you have seemingly 10 million bots after you, mostly comprised of (heavy) Devastators, which get more accurate over time, Rocket Devastators which seemingly never have to reload. a bunch of Bruisers and a few Hulks and Tanks. You can deal with them easily enough if you also aren't in imminent danger of getting shot/sliced with a chainsaw. Though if you are, you have to deal with closing infantry, to give yourself a window of opportunity to deal with them, at which point, another gunship comes along, then another and another. Sooner or later, no matter what you do, you'll get bogged down hiding waiting for your death, because if you run, you'll get caught in the open where their rockets throw you around like a dog toy and then you wont have the time to shoot them down before the ground-based units wreck you

[Drunken Irishman]

Originally posted by TGUSOL:

Most times it is the players/teams fault for triggering drops and bug holes on top of events , most missions like samples/fuelling/ssd's will have small groups of light enemies close by , not clearing them out first allows them to trigger extra drops/holes on top of what is already coming your way.

And you don't have to engage every enemy you come across , the amount of time teams waste strategems and ammo attacking patrols miles away and then they trigger drops/holes.

Also bug nests and Bot factories near by your objective will add to attacks so take them out first.

And a pro tip try dropping in on the edge of the map and not on top of shreaker nests or gunship factories.

I/we usually do pick our fights. We found out the hard lesson of trying to go Rambo on everything. It still doesn't change the fact that the enemy spawns are way too high and instead of fixing them, they just prioritise nerfs/buffs and add new things to change the dynamic of getting in a fight, instead of fixing what is broken. After-all, you don't build a house on broken foundations because you are essentially painting over some structural weaknesses and pretending they don't exist

We also don't spawn right on top of marked enemy presence. Sometimes you drop right on-top/next to enemies standing around a medal/POI, that will call for backup before you fully get out of your pod and are able to engage

[xxxHolic Waltz]

https://youtu.be/xXr-72xMtSY?si=24rkNXotUL1zqrbu

Not sure if it's commonly known but I've managed to replicate the "zero spawns at extraction" deal after watching this video out of curiosity. It's no fix by any means BUT it does shed light on why sometimes my team gets near constant spawns and other times it's basically a ghost town. At bare minimum being able to predict where enemies will be coming from is super handy and more so if you're running the scout perk

[Tazkar]

Originally posted by Drunken Irishman:

Originally posted by Tazkar:

The gunships are op? You're joking right? The only opness of them comes from encountering them and not knowing their weaknesses because you've never seen them before. But they Fall over to anything that has decent Medium Armor Pen.

AMR, Autocannon, Laser Cannon, Quasar Cannon, EAT, Recoiless, Spear.

All of those support weapons can demolish a Gunship in very short order. Some may require targeting an engine to do so but they are all capable of wiping the floor with them. And there are a few other stratagems that are capable of taking out gunships.

While there are legitimate problems with peoples games crashing on evac at higher difficulties and other issues. The new added enemies aren't part of the games problem and actually work to change the dynamic of play, keeping it from getting stale because you've dealt with the same spawns for the hundredth time.

I know those weapons are good at dealing with gunships. The point I was getting at is that when you have seemingly 10 million bots after you, mostly comprised of (heavy) Devastators, which get more accurate over time, Rocket Devastators which seemingly never have to reload. a bunch of Bruisers and a few Hulks and Tanks. You can deal with them easily enough if you also aren't in imminent danger of getting shot/sliced with a chainsaw. Though if you are, you have to deal with closing infantry, to give yourself a window of opportunity to deal with them, at which point, another gunship comes along, then another and another. Sooner or later, no matter what you do, you'll get bogged down hiding waiting for your death, because if you run, you'll get caught in the open where their rockets throw you around like a dog toy and then you wont have the time to shoot them down before the ground-based units wreck you

The whole point of the game especially higher difficulties is that it's four helldivers going in against the odds but bringing a lot of firepower. At higher difficulties you are meant to be swarmed if you don't deal with things quickly and effectively.

At lower difficulties...this doesn't happen unless you really screw up. Or are playing solo, which the game isn't balanced around because it is meant to be co-op, so going in solo is taking the full challenge on by yourself.

[Aedwynn]

Originally posted by TGUSOL:

Most times it is the players/teams fault for triggering drops and bug holes on top of events , most missions like samples/fuelling/ssd's will have small groups of light enemies close by , not clearing them out first allows them to trigger extra drops/holes on top of what is already coming your way.

And you don't have to engage every enemy you come across , the amount of time teams waste strategems and ammo attacking patrols miles away and then they trigger drops/holes.

Also bug nests and Bot factories near by your objective will add to attacks so take them out first.

And a pro tip try dropping in on the edge of the map and not on top of shreaker nests or gunship factories.

Stealth doesn't really work that well due to a lot of bugs in game. Like patrols spawning on top of player, enemies ignoring LoS and noticing you through rocks/terrain. Plus multi-spawns when instead of spawning normal amount of enemies on PoI / target game spawns like x2, x3, x5. I remember walking in a HILL that was actually comprised of Bot basic troops stacked in one spot due to some spawn bug. Literal DeathStar the moment all those 50+ start shooting at you.
Honestly the moment you start to push for objective (clearing all nearby problems ofc) it starts to snowball fast to unmanageable levels. But instead of fixing all those problems Devs do some other stuff that's not important.

[[TGU]SOL]

Originally posted by Aedwynn:

[
Stealth doesn't really work that well due to a lot of bugs in game. Like patrols spawning on top of player, enemies ignoring LoS and noticing you through rocks/terrain. Plus multi-spawns when instead of spawning normal amount of enemies on PoI / target game spawns like x2, x3, x5. I remember walking in a HILL that was actually comprised of Bot basic troops stacked in one spot due to some spawn bug. Literal DeathStar the moment all those 50+ start shooting at you.
Honestly the moment you start to push for objective (clearing all nearby problems ofc) it starts to snowball fast to unmanageable levels. But instead of fixing all those problems Devs do some other stuff that's not important.

The agro system you're misunderstanding , it spreads to any enemy within a certain area and LOS is Irrelevant it only takes one , bugs detect by smell, bots by sight .

Stealth works fine , most effective with Bots but as bugs detect by smell distance is key.

[Aedwynn]

Originally posted by TGUSOL:

The agro system you're misunderstanding , it spreads to any enemy within a certain area and LOS is Irrelevant it only takes one , bugs detect by smell, bots by sight .

Stealth works fine , most effective with Bots but as bugs detect by smell distance is key.

I'm not misunderstanding. I know how it works. But I also know how it's broken.
I'm simply pointing out obvious flaws. Yes, you can still work with that broken system and achieve certain results. Doesn't mean it's fine and should be left as it is.

[2D > 3D WEEB 4 LIFE]

I don't think the amount of enemies would be an issue if disengaging was a reliable option and randoms had the epiphany to stop running into every nest without clearing them.

A lot of people also seem to struggle with the concept of reinforcing away from enemies which just makes things worse.