Balacing of assult rifles, SMG, and Shotguns seems wrong

[Beckitt]

I really don't get the so called balancing in this game. They have shot guns that do high damage and are effective at long range. You have SMG's That do higher damage per shot than assault rifles. Maybe i'm wrong but i feel like assault rifles shot be doing more damage per bullet than SMGs and always have light armor pen at the minimum that's effective long range. SMG should shoot faster than assault rifle and be good up to medium range. Shotguns should be devastating close up but then damage falls off.

[Sainray]

if u put it like that ... why use guns on bugs and robots? it's not effective at all... bullets are designed for killing ppl. bug spray and emp should be the theme of all weapons in this game then.

[Beckitt]

Originally posted by Deep Rock Galactic:

They are pretty much all the same lame weak gun with a different skin. Only the dominator and the incendiary breaker feels like its doing any damage at all

That's the problem, lots of guns but few really effective. Game would be more fun if they quit nerfing and making weapons that are useless. Would be more fun to have all the guns are effective in one way or the other so people have lots of choices

[12InchParadise]

Because Devs are balancing weapons according to low level rounds.
If the weapons overperforn at low level dives, then they nerf them.

They don't plan 7-9 difficulties where your weapons really matter.

[Hariman]

AIming for weak spots helps, like legs and heads and glowy vulnerable points.

Shotguns are actually effective at long range in real life, and DON'T have the ridiculous spread seen in games.

I LIKE that shotguns are realistic and do damage at range, because this is one of the few games to get that right.

The SMG is probably better suited to the enemy it's doing damage to, while the main weapon and machine gun are probably less suited to where you're shooting.

The game is FUN, especially when you get to play with a squad that has voices active, so you can coordinate strategies, laugh at exploding yourselves, and share the fun.


Yes, there could probably be some better balance choices, but I'm betting a lot of the issue is that the guns vary in armor penetration and such.

[lemmonoski]

Honestly... OP is more right than first glance. Obvious tactic weapons aren't in the game.

- Where *is* the giant handheld toxin sprayer weapon for use vs bugs? (want general purpose? say its "acid" instead. Makes more sense than using a flamer on bots.)

- Where *is* the handheld directed EMP weapon for use against bots?

- Where *is* the suit of armour or helmet that gives protection vs the bugs' acid and/or divers' own gas stratagem?

- Where *is* the "attention seeker" grenade used in almost every zombie horde game?

- edit add: Why *didn't* the polar-themed addons give cryo weapons and armour that resists it? Cryo damage is already in game from PLANTS ffs.

I'm guessing making new visual models is easy, but a new mechanic is difficult.

[Grim@FU_BARRACUDA]

Originally posted by Beckitt:

I really don't get the so called balancing in this game. They have shot guns that do high damage and are effective at long range. You have SMG's That do higher damage per shot than assault rifles. Maybe i'm wrong but i feel like assault rifles shot be doing more damage per bullet than SMGs and always have light armor pen at the minimum that's effective long range. SMG should shoot faster than assault rifle and be good up to medium range. Shotguns should be devastating close up but then damage falls off.

Well, in reality it all depends on the caliber, barrel length and the amount of gunpowder used. By the way, you can also attach longer barrels to submachine guns, for example in a bullpump design. In games you can do it as easily as you said, and maybe it should be that way. The SMGs with high rate of fire and light penetration normal magazine capacity and fast reload, the ARs with lower rate of fire and medium penetration but high capacity and medium reload, the sniper rifle with lowest rate of fire, very high damage, very high penetration but low magazine capacity and slow reload, the shotguns with no penetration but high Damage and stagger at close range, with low capacity and medium or fast reload, depending if its mag or single reload, yeah and the mgs, with very big mag, medium pen and slow reload depending on mag size.

But there are also special weapons and it is difficult to accommodate everything in such a way that nothing is unnecessary and everything can fulfill a role. I think one can see, that this is already a lot of work. I'm so glad I'm not a developer who has to balance weapons and abilities in a game ha ha ha xD

[Oobaneko]

Solid questions - simple answer: for balancing different types of weaponry they need much more deep and more IRL system of calibers and gun classes.

[Beckitt]

Originally posted by Phil_Micucci@MoistyLips:

Originally posted by Beckitt:

I really don't get the so called balancing in this game. They have shot guns that do high damage and are effective at long range. You have SMG's That do higher damage per shot than assault rifles. Maybe i'm wrong but i feel like assault rifles shot be doing more damage per bullet than SMGs and always have light armor pen at the minimum that's effective long range. SMG should shoot faster than assault rifle and be good up to medium range. Shotguns should be devastating close up but then damage falls off.

Well, in reality it all depends on the caliber, barrel length and the amount of gunpowder used. By the way, you can also attach longer barrels to submachine guns, for example in a bullpump design. In games you can do it as easily as you said, and maybe it should be that way. The SMGs with high rate of fire and light penetration normal magazine capacity and fast reload, the ARs with lower rate of fire and medium penetration but high capacity and medium reload, the sniper rifle with lowest rate of fire, very high damage, very high penetration but low magazine capacity and slow reload, the shotguns with no penetration but high Damage and stagger at close range, with low capacity and medium or fast reload, depending if its mag or single reload, yeah and the mgs, with very big mag, medium pen and slow reload depending on mag size.

But there are also special weapons and it is difficult to accommodate everything in such a way that nothing is unnecessary and everything can fulfill a role. I think one can see, that this is already a lot of work. I'm so glad I'm not a developer who has to balance weapons and abilities in a game ha ha ha xD

It just makes me sad the all the assault rifles are awful, closest thing to a good assault rifle is the sickle and it's a energy weapon

[Midnight]

Originally posted by lemmonoski:

Honestly... OP is more right than first glance. Obvious tactic weapons aren't in the game.

- Where *is* the giant handheld toxin sprayer weapon for use vs bugs? (want general purpose? say its "acid" instead. Makes more sense than using a flamer on bots.)

- Where *is* the handheld directed EMP weapon for use against bots?

- Where *is* the suit of armour or helmet that gives protection vs the bugs' acid and/or divers' own gas stratagem?

- Where *is* the "attention seeker" grenade used in almost every zombie horde game?

- edit add: Why *didn't* the polar-themed addons give cryo weapons and armour that resists it? Cryo damage is already in game from PLANTS ffs.

I'm guessing making new visual models is easy, but a new mechanic is difficult.

Obviously mechanics are hard. Especially when they are set on releasing multiple guns every month.

Last time they released a gun with a mechanic (Eruptor) they broke explosions in general and then dumpstered the thing by fixing its bugs.

That's what we can expect when a gun with a new mechanic gets released I guess.

[Washboard]

Originally posted by Phil_Micucci@MoistyLips:

Well, in reality it all depends on the caliber, barrel length and the amount of gunpowder used. By the way, you can also attach longer barrels to submachine guns, for example in a bullpump design….

Bullpup… bull pump is something you do at a cattle ranch.

I don’t want to see the bull pump cryo shooter :D

[NotReallyMyName]

What are you suggesting? To make weapons actually fun? With this balance team?

[Beckitt]

Originally posted by NotReallyMyName:

What are you suggesting? To make weapons actually fun? With this balance team?

there is currently a big gap between effectiveness of most the weapons. They need to be more even and not by nerfing the crap out of the good weapons, but buffing the bad ones. Also at some point the game is going to end up with a lot of similar weapons that do the same thing witch is fine to me as long as they are a good weapon. They should just make them look different maybe have different attachments and skins.

[黒人]

The next balance patch be like:

Tenderizer

• Decreased Magazine size to 20
  
• Decreased number of maximum mags to 3
  
• Increased number of magazines received from resupply to 3
  
• Increased Damaged from 60 to 65
  
• Increased recoil from 10 to 50

"We have found the weapon not working as intended and therefor we tweaked it to be more in line with our vision. We heard your concerns about the Tenderizer's "stopping power" and we gave it an appropriate damage boost. We deemed the low recoil as an unintended feature, therefor a bug, and adjusted it to reflect the gun's immense stopping power."

Arrowhead's balancing department is in a sad state right now.

[Beckitt]

Originally posted by 黒人:

The next balance patch be like:

Tenderizer

• Decreased Magazine size to 20
  
• Decreased number of maximum mags to 3
  
• Increased number of magazines received from resupply to 3
  
• Increased Damaged from 60 to 65
  
• Increased recoil from 10 to 50

"We have found the weapon not working as intended and therefor we tweaked it to be more in line with our vision. We heard your concerns about the Tenderizer's "stopping power" and we gave it an appropriate damage boost. We deemed the low recoil as an unintended feature, therefor a bug, and adjusted it to reflect the gun's immense stopping power."

lol Tenderizer is a good example of what not to do. A worse gun than the one you start off with, also nothing says Snow theme like making the weapon green

[SupaPlayer]

You'd be right, because this game has a very warped sense of balancing