Class Action Suit INFORMATION

[rowan ⚡⚡]

Good morning Helldivas (helldivers is our word, others can just call us helldivas)

Here is some useful information on Class Action Lawsuits so you know what the next couple of months will entail for us informed consumers.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/class_action

Since the Devs failed to properly and overtly inform the consumers that they'd be forced to link their PSN later on- rather than make it optional- it is possible that everyone affected by this in the US and especially in Europe can easily throw their info into the pot once the suit is officially underway, and may get compensated anywhere between what they paid for the game and up to a few hundred dollars.

Neat!

[Peck]

Originally posted by shogunsmurf:

Originally posted by (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

That was plastered on the Steam store page before launch happened.... it was always on there.


Look. I dont agree with the PSN thing but it does not violate EU consumer rights at all since it was clearly advertised.

For a class action to work, you would need a strong compelling case at how a free signup wall advertised as being required long before launch some how impedes you from playing the game or actually risks personal private information in a manner that would violate PII laws/standards.

Good luck.

It's not listed in the OG EULA or at the Requirements, it's at the community section.

I think you underestimate how much in favor EU consumer laws are of the consumer.

"Your honor, I just wanted to check if I could play the game, why would I look at the community section if I just want to check if I can / want to run the game ? Especially since there was a clear warning at the actual requirement / information section about langauge support."

Yup those very very very pro consumer EU judges are totally going to go "no you should have read every single little bit of information on the internet, next to the requirement page, to figure out the requirements" huh ?

Next to the fact their own FAQ said it wasn't required to play, and having it be so for 3 months, might be hard to argue it was clear to anyone that bought the game up till this announcement, it would actually be enforced.

You either have 0 understanding of how consumer laws actually work or are a joke of shill. EU ain't America, those laws are literally made to protect people who don't read something they should have xD We're a civilized people and don't allow that "should have read the fine print" type of scamming.

Jackal is actually on your side, no need to call him a shill.
I'm very curious to see how a class-action would play out, since no one in their right mind would read the full ToS.

What is misleading, is the initial wording that PSN account linking would be supported, definitely was not MANDATORY. That would be the most obvious "change" that could result in the suit being picked up.

Also, wait a couple of days to see if Arrowhead/Sony do a 180, since the backlash is all over the internet: social media, Youtube, Steam forum, Reddit, Discord, "gaming news sites" (even though all of them are a joke).

This is a PR disaster we haven't seen in a decade easily.

[DC]

Originally posted by (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

Originally posted by rowan ❄:

That doesn't quite abide by Consumer Rights laws it's similar to hidden fine print and there's EU law precedents against it

That was plastered on the Steam store page before launch happened.... it was always on there.


Look. I dont agree with the PSN thing but it does not violate EU consumer rights at all since it was clearly advertised.

For a class action to work, you would need a strong compelling case at how a free signup wall advertised as being required long before launch some how impedes you from playing the game or actually risks personal private information in a manner that would violate PII laws/standards.

Good luck.

They sold copies to customers in countries that they knowingly could not or would not support. Sony is going to get sued.

[Scuzz MB]

That's exactly all it is, a PR disaster. Cuz there's no legal case here. Outside of the players in non-PSN regions, no lawyer on the planet is going to take this case, when the terms of the game are the first and best piece of evidence. They can't even argue that this is unprecedented, because as soon as they start introducing class action litigants that also have MS games, and EA games and all these other Steam games that require cross-platform authentication, this case would get laughed out of court.

Like Sony or not, they are covered. You've just intalled the most intrusive, non-secure kernel level anti-cheat software on the market you could imagine to play this game, and you're complaining about this?

[Shaabhekh]

Originally posted by Joonyah:

Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network (Supports Linking to Steam Account)

You keep citing this and i will keep pointing out that it is incorrect.

You might have needed a PSN account to play the game (spoilers, you technically dont) and the game supported linking your PSN and Steam accounts but that DOES NOT mean you had to - it is NOT specified in that little tid-bit of text you like posting, nor on the store page, that you needed to link accounts to play the game.

[leech]

Originally posted by Scuzz MB:

Originally posted by Kail:

I'd love to see something like this actually go somewhere. It would be really nice to see game publishers forced to stand by the release-state of products, instead of altering the deal later on.

By this reasoning, standing by the 'release-state" principal that you just made up, the publisher would be open to class action lawsuits every time they patched or updated the game.

No, they would just need a drop down for optioning in each level of the patch (Some Steam games already have an option like this). Granted, this makes zero sense for an online only game like Helldivers 2, since they're going to be fixing bugs and adding features and you wouldn't be able to play with other players if everyone had different versions.

[Lovecraft]

Never pay a lawyer for a class-action suit!

Never, not even to discuss the possibility.

If a lawyer thinks the suit has a decent chance of success, they'll do it at their own expense because they'll collect a big share of the judgement.

[Scuzz MB]

Originally posted by Shaabhekh:

Originally posted by Joonyah:

Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network (Supports Linking to Steam Account)

You keep citing this and i will keep pointing out that it is incorrect.

You might have needed a PSN account to play the game (spoilers, you technically dont) and the game supported linking your PSN and Steam accounts but that DOES NOT mean you had to - it is NOT specified in that little tid-bit of text you like posting, nor on the store page, that you needed to link accounts to play the game.

Your apparently using some obscure definition of the word "required" that we hadn't previously been aware of. How much more specified did you need it? The dictionary definition of the word "required" with it?

required
adjective
re·​quired ri-ˈkwī(-ə)rd
: stipulated as necessary to be done, made, or provided

Just because you can by-pass that requirement doesn't mean that you have a legal argument. I technically CAN do things I'm not legally entitled to do, does that mean I'm not legally responsible?

[ShrillyVR]

Originally posted by rowan ❄:

Good morning Helldivas (helldivers is our word, others can just call us helldivas)

Here is some useful information on Class Action Lawsuits so you know what the next couple of months will entail for us informed consumers.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/class_action

Since the Devs failed to properly and overtly inform the consumers that they'd be forced to link their PSN later on- rather than make it optional- it is possible that everyone affected by this in the US and especially in Europe can easily throw their info into the pot once the suit is officially underway, and may get compensated anywhere between what they paid for the game and up to a few hundred dollars.

Neat! :Crowned:

Fun fact! the store page since september 22, 2023 always had this warning tag in gold! "Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network (Supports Linking to Steam Account)"

Id say thats warning enough oh and lets not forget there was a warning in january too. news articles went on about it, but it didnt get much traction cause of the hype divers (hype divers are what i call people who never knew this series existed till after launch)

[Hungry]

I love how people are defending Sony's implementation of this stupid PSN.
It just fills the community with more Hate towards them and I am all the more on boat with their hate.

[Flamb]

Originally posted by DC:

Originally posted by (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

That was plastered on the Steam store page before launch happened.... it was always on there.


Look. I dont agree with the PSN thing but it does not violate EU consumer rights at all since it was clearly advertised.

For a class action to work, you would need a strong compelling case at how a free signup wall advertised as being required long before launch some how impedes you from playing the game or actually risks personal private information in a manner that would violate PII laws/standards.

Good luck.

They sold copies to customers in countries that they knowingly could not or would not support. Sony is going to get sued.

/thread

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Originally posted by DC:

Originally posted by (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

That was plastered on the Steam store page before launch happened.... it was always on there.


Look. I dont agree with the PSN thing but it does not violate EU consumer rights at all since it was clearly advertised.

For a class action to work, you would need a strong compelling case at how a free signup wall advertised as being required long before launch some how impedes you from playing the game or actually risks personal private information in a manner that would violate PII laws/standards.

Good luck.

They sold copies to customers in countries that they knowingly could not or would not support. Sony is going to get sued.

That is the only strong case for a class action.
However, since it does not violate anything in the US or EU.
Users who bought and played and refuse to play by creating a free PSN account most likely will not have any grounds what so ever.

Yeah, Sony will most likely get sued but not in the way people are wanting them to get sued.

Never forget that No Man's Sky ACTUALLY violated the law with false advertisement so much so that Valve had to completely change its policy on screenshots and videos have to be of things in the game. (Which is poorly enforced seeing how Cyberpunk 2077 launched with their stupid disclaimer in their videos being a 'let it ride' pass) And it went completely no where in all countries involved.

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Originally posted by Shaabhekh:

Originally posted by Joonyah:

Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network (Supports Linking to Steam Account)

You keep citing this and i will keep pointing out that it is incorrect.

You might have needed a PSN account to play the game (spoilers, you technically dont) and the game supported linking your PSN and Steam accounts but that DOES NOT mean you had to - it is NOT specified in that little tid-bit of text you like posting, nor on the store page, that you needed to link accounts to play the game.

What are you talking about?

It literally says on the store page prior to even being purchasable before launch and even now.

Requires 3rd-Party Account: PlayStation Network (Supports Linking to Steam Account)

Required means you had to..... or am I wrong in what required means?
Just because you could play without it, doesn't mean it wasn't suppose to be a requirement.

I hate Sony and I really do not like this forced PSN network but I would really like for people to be real about what this is.

The ones who don't know what they are talking about hurt others that do.

[Shaabhekh]

Originally posted by Scuzz MB:

Originally posted by Shaabhekh:

You keep citing this and i will keep pointing out that it is incorrect.

You might have needed a PSN account to play the game (spoilers, you technically dont) and the game supported linking your PSN and Steam accounts but that DOES NOT mean you had to - it is NOT specified in that little tid-bit of text you like posting, nor on the store page, that you needed to link accounts to play the game.

Your apparently using some obscure definition of the word "required" that we hadn't previously been aware of. How much more specified did you need it? The dictionary definition of the word "required" with it?

required
adjective
re·​quired ri-ˈkwī(-ə)rd
: stipulated as necessary to be done, made, or provided

Yes, but having to make a PSN account to sign into when i want to play HD2 is NOT the same as them wanting me to make a PSN account and link it to my Steam account so i can play the game.

And as before, you dont *actually* need a PSN account to play the game, otherwise the option to SKIP the 'requirement' when its first (and only) prompted in-game would have either A) told me that i would have needed to do it once the 'grace period' ended (it didnt, btw) or B) tell me i am unable to play the game until i have my PSN account made, signed in, linked etc (again, it didnt do this either)

So i think its actually Sony who are "using an obscure definition of the word 'required'"

[(N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★]

Originally posted by Shaabhekh:

Originally posted by Scuzz MB:

Your apparently using some obscure definition of the word "required" that we hadn't previously been aware of. How much more specified did you need it? The dictionary definition of the word "required" with it?

required
adjective
re·​quired ri-ˈkwī(-ə)rd
: stipulated as necessary to be done, made, or provided

Yes, but having to make a PSN account to sign into when i want to play HD2 is NOT the same as them wanting me to make a PSN account and link it to my Steam account so i can play the game.

And as before, you dont *actually* need a PSN account to play the game, otherwise the option to SKIP the 'requirement' when its first (and only) prompted in-game would have either A) told me that i would have needed to do it once the 'grace period' ended (it didnt, btw) or B) tell me i am unable to play the game until i have my PSN account made, signed in, linked etc (again, it didnt do this either)

So i think its actually Sony who are "using an obscure definition of the word 'required'"

Just because you were able to play the game without the PSN does not mean it wasnt required.

It is like how you can go into a bar and there is a sign that says ID checks are required..... but not really enforced all the time and then one day they choose to FULLY enforce it every day all day.....

[Shaabhekh]

Originally posted by (N☆G) Jackal ★JJ★:

Originally posted by Shaabhekh:

Yes, but having to make a PSN account to sign into when i want to play HD2 is NOT the same as them wanting me to make a PSN account and link it to my Steam account so i can play the game.

And as before, you dont *actually* need a PSN account to play the game, otherwise the option to SKIP the 'requirement' when its first (and only) prompted in-game would have either A) told me that i would have needed to do it once the 'grace period' ended (it didnt, btw) or B) tell me i am unable to play the game until i have my PSN account made, signed in, linked etc (again, it didnt do this either)

So i think its actually Sony who are "using an obscure definition of the word 'required'"

Just because you were able to play the game without the PSN does not mean it wasnt required.

It is like how you can go into a bar and there is a sign that says ID checks are required..... but not really enforced all the time and then one day they choose to FULLY enforce it every day all day.....

Somewhat irrelevant since its not specified that you needed to link your Steam and PSN accounts, thats the counter-point im making to anyone who cites the little banner from the store page.
Not to mention that the official Sony/Playstation store page for HD2 cites that you dont need to have a PSN account to play on PC - and also no mention of needing to link either