Jump Pack is still disappointing

[Rabby]

As an avid user of this strategem in which I bring it almost every game, I'm really disappointed that no one bothered to fix this backpack in the Arrowhead team. This is still one of the more useless backpack items out there and the sole reason people bother using is cuz its cool and fun and not because its useful.

To anyone who thinks jump pack is good and great as well as useful in clutch situations, its really not and its a stretch. Anything jump pack offers is offered from other strategems. Here is a quick breakdown:

• If you are in a tight spot, surrounded by enemies, you can use the shield generator instead of jump pack, on top of just being able to run through the enemy to get to potential safe spot you are also protected 80% of the time throughout the mission from a potential 1 shot kill from an unexpected place. Overall, jump pack provides less than shield generator in every way shape or form, its not even competition.
  
• If you want to use it as to create distance from the enemy to have a better fighting space, just use a sentry gun. It doesn't take a backpack slot, you can deploy it on the spot to distract enemies and it acts a cover fire. Meaning you deal with the enemies front of you while being able to back off thanks to sentry taking some amount of aggro from you rather than jumping 5 meters and solving nothing.
  
• If you want to use it to get on top of a rock, congratulations! You found 1 use for this horribly cheap knockoff strategem version from the OG Helldivers.
  
• If you want to use this to be faster and navigate from point A to B, congratulations! You saved 5 meters worth of distance every 15 seconds . Now about that 300 meter objective you have to run, you saved about 12 seconds in the case you did not had the jump pack! So cool! Now that I ranted about people using this strategem for navigation from A to B, unless you use this at a high ground to get to low ground you are wasting your time as well as a strategem slot. Reminder that 99% of the time, planets and locations are flat

There you have it, every use for this strategem is either so niche that it literally never happens, or it doesn't even matter.

For the love of god, give the Jump pack its 3 jumps from the old game.
From this point on, its me ranting, you can skip if you want.
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I really don't understand Arrowhead, you want to make every weapon an option for their niche, then you make the same weapon very ♥♥♥♥ so it can't even fulfil its niche it was created for.

You created Railgun, one of the finest weapons in gaming history. High risk, High reward. It required a lot of skill especially during release where larger enemies were more common, on top of dealing with them you had to deal with smaller enemies. You needed to be fast and precise. It required a lot for you to do, for example: You had to break chargers leg and THEN shoot the leg. It took "skill" and I mean it, this is not easy to do while there are 4 other chargers as well as 8 hunters trying to give you back massage.

Was there issues? Yes, Safe mode did too much, everyone knew and agrees it was going to be nerfed. But surprise! You nerfed BOTH safe and unsafe mode. Why? Because of a playstation bug that made railgun 2 shot bile titans. Bug was fixed, weapon never reverted.
UNSAFE MODE STILL PERFORMS WORSE THAN FLAMETHROWER, WHICH JUST REQUIRES YOU TO HOLD M1 IN ENEMIES LOCATION.
Yeah, railgun was definitely brain dead. To anyone who says railgun is brain dead weapon after all this... I have no words, honestly.

You created Eruptor an extremely fine sniper rifle with a great niche, shrapnel. It allowed a primary to be used for armored targets, allowing stalwart to be used as support. Basically whole new strategy. The problem? In theory, can 1 shot chargers... IN THEORY. For less than 1% chance to kill chargers in actuality shrapnel was deemed "too overpowered" and was nerfed into oblivion.

Shrapnel, gone to ashes. But SURELY there is a justification for its nerf, as well as compensation. After all, it was the shrapnel that over performed and not Eruptor right?

Well turns out they gave measly amounts of damage as compensation. And they gave that buff again with the recent patch. Did it fix anything? No, it still is ♥♥♥♥. It can't even kill a brood commander reliably on bugs side with 2 shots. 2 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ shots, which already takes 8 seconds JUST for a single medium sized enemy. Its explosion can't even reliably kill scavengers.

I truly hope that Arrowhead employee's have Brain Hemorrhage, every single one responsible for balance. This is not a threat, I just can't imagine someone without brain damage not being able to understand just how much snipers suck in this game and still continue to dump it on the ground.

Mechs STILL suck ass, just give us repair mech and reload mech strategems. Its not hard to fix. Having 3 strategems just for keeping mechs is already crippling, but it would finally make mechs viable considering what little they contribute.

I can continue on, there are still more than 5 other nerfs that I find baffling, but I'm gonna sum up important ones.

Arc Thrower: No reason for range nerf(from 50m down to 35m), "Obliterating bile titans from extreme distance" is not an excuse for this nerf as that was a playstation bug.
Oh right! It staggers hulks now?! NERF IT, TOO POWERFUL. Thanks for giving us a stun lock weapon only to take it away. I guess teamwork is something you guys don't want. (You could have reduced to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ damage instead of removing stuns)
Slugger: Ah yes every single sniper is worse than this. Very surprising, instead of buffing snipers we should nerf slugger so that snipers get used more often instead of slugger (Very big brain)
Guard Dog: ....?? Why would you even...??? Why nerf damage, I still can't wrap my head around this one.

Rocket Pods: To devs credit they know that this may not be a good buff/nerf and looking for feedback. I respect that hence I will give my own feedback as civil as possible unlike the rest of mumbo jumbo I wrote up there.

Rocket pods used to kill things 50% of the time at 100% chance if it hits them. What I mean is It may not hit, but if it hits, it will definitely kill, now its more like It will hit, but It wont kill. I truly think that the previous version was better, wounding targets is just not worth a strategem slot.
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Imma stop here. Before anyone finds this thread annoying: please keep in mind 1 thing,
EVERY single strategem and weapon is fighting for your slot for YOU and YOUR TEAMMATE. I cannot stress it enough thats why peoples argument "its a pve game" doesnt matter, I cannot count how many amount of games I ruined simply because I choose fun over meta.
I picked jump pack, rather than shield. I could have survived a hunter which instantly killed me had I picked shield. Which would have prevented my team being overwhelmed during a nest mission.
I could have picked EAT instead of spear, just because I wanted to have fun with spears auto locking, I couldn't kill a bile titan, resulting in team wipe.

You may think failing is ok, but that is not the case for everyone. People will be annoyed at losing, and that may end up coincidentally being the last straw for someones outburst of rage.
Naturally this happens rarely, but the fact that it even happens is horrible. To anyone who finds this not understandable: There are people not skilled enough to play the difficulty they are on, you CANNOT tell them to just "Not play". What I mean is not everyone is a god at this game. Just because you can clear helldive with no strategems doesn't mean others will be able to. Strategems make the game easier, and this is why nerfs are uncalled for.
Fun loadouts NEED to be strong enough to be viable. Eruptor and jump pack is a prime example of this, shrapnel allowed people to take stalwart, many people want to enjoy the machine guns which this primary allowed them to do. Jump pack allows people to have fun mobility wise, allowing them to do high rare moments where survival would otherwise seem impossible (Buff it pls, its actually not the case. People just think thats the case).

Anyway, thanks for coming to my TED talk. I hope devs realize that strategems/weapons shouldn't feel good mindset is not viable and get rid of that mentality entirely. Its not hard to satisfy both sides who want the game to be extreme and people who want the game to be fun and easy. Feeling lazy? Just add event difficulties that go above difficulty 9 such as 10 or 11, crack up the spawn rates and say that you are balancing the game around difficulty 9, anything higher is just the extreme.

tl;dr

Buff jump pack
nerf bad
buff good
game fun, make more fun
game not hard? make harder for them, not for everyone

[LoboFH]

I wanted to read this epic wall of text, I swear...but you wrote this line too early:

you can use the shield generator instead of jump pack

I Stopped there.

In those "oh crap" situations the shield will keep you alive couple seconds more, but the outcome will be the same. While the jump pack could save your life.

[Rabby]

Originally posted by LoboFH:

I wanted to read this epic wall of text, I swear...but you wrote this line too early:

you can use the shield generator instead of jump pack

I Stopped there.

In those "oh crap" situations the shield will keep you alive couple seconds more, but the outcome will be the same. While the jump pack could save your life.

Yeah you are right, I should probably clarify this part a bit further.
From my testing as a fanatic jump pack user, shield generator ALWAYS allowed me to get away from any situation, even more often prior to shield nerf. I honestly have NEVER said "I would have been able to get away from this if I had jump pack". But there were times where I said "I would have been able to get away with this bad play had I used the shield".

This is why I wrote that statement where shield is superior to jump, be it bots where jump pack is not that usable to bugs where jump pack shines the most. Just jumping "ONCE" doesn't solve the issue. Almost always charging charger catches up, swarm moves in a way where you are still cornered and most importantly I died A LOT to jumping hunters while in air.

Hence why I made this statement, shield IS superior to jump in every way shape or form. If jump pack had 3 jumps, it would be the one of the best back packs out there.

[tom tomorrow]

Jump Pack is S-tier. No irony. I've been using it to run no-death solo level 9 missions since forever. It's the only thing that allows me to do this, both on bug and bot missions. Support weapons have become irrelevant. Jump Pack is the only mainstay in my build. Mobility and positioning are everything in this game. If you're having these kinds of issues, then you've already made mistakes. No backpack is going to save you from your own bad decisions.

[Rabby]

Originally posted by mf tom:

Jump Pack is S-tier. No irony. I've been using it to solo level 9 missions since forever. It's the only thing that allows me to do this, both on bug and bot missions. Support weapons has become irrelevant. Jump Pack is the only mainstay in my build. Mobility and positioning are everything in this game. If you're having these kinds of issues, then you've already made mistakes. No backpack is going to save you from your own bad decisions.

Objectively speaking jump pack IS NOT S tier. Low A or High B at best. The reason I say this is because its fighting against both shield generator and Autocannon backpack. Its one of the most fun backpacks however, you are right.
The issue is whenever you need jump pack again after jumping once, its already in cooldown or you haven't made significant amount of space after jumping in which a hunter already flies to your head instantly killing you because hit boxes.
I have over 8 clips of me dying to a unfortunate random hunter flying to my head while fighting against a sole charger 3 seconds after I completed my jump while repositioning. Jump pack IS NOT foolproof, and some mistakes aren't even mistakes.
Which is funny, but definitely shows that strategem is not *that* good. Could it have been avoided? Maybe, but bringing a different strategem could have solved those situations much better.

[Sanglaine]

Meanwhile solo players Jump Pack is S tier.

>ignore walls
>infiltrate perched bases
>jump chargers and hulks
>extra dodge
>Bonus move speed that increases based on how high you are when you start your jump
>exploit the living hell out of the low tier AI design
>additional mobility in a game where you spend most of your time running.

I pretty much use jump pack for nearly every solo 9 I do.

I always find it funny when the common man undervalues mobility. Also you give terrible examples of what you'd consider 'bad' while showing you have no creative thought process. It's clear you want this to be a 'get out of jail free' card and are upset that you have to actually think about when to use it instead of just blasting it whenever you are scared you're about to get your organs rearranged.

[Outdated]

maybe I am a noob but from the individual perspective the jump pack seems to be the best by a longshot. It gives you a amount of tactical control you wouldn't have otherwise.
That said it would be silly if the others were useless either....

maybe the shield just fits your playstyle better then the jump pack?

[Koala 4peace]

I wouldn't mind if it get either lower cooldown or a little more height. Right now is very situational.

[nizzemancer]

If I can't use it to "ski" down slopes while I shoot glowing CDs at people then I don't want it.

[tom tomorrow]

Originally posted by Rabby:

Originally posted by mf tom:

Jump Pack is S-tier. No irony. I've been using it to solo level 9 missions since forever. It's the only thing that allows me to do this, both on bug and bot missions. Support weapons has become irrelevant. Jump Pack is the only mainstay in my build. Mobility and positioning are everything in this game. If you're having these kinds of issues, then you've already made mistakes. No backpack is going to save you from your own bad decisions.

Objectively speaking jump pack IS NOT S tier. Low A or High B at best. The reason I say this is because its fighting against both shield generator and Autocannon backpack. Its one of the most fun backpacks however, you are right.
The issue is whenever you need jump pack again after jumping once, its already in cooldown or you haven't made significant amount of space after jumping in which a hunter already flies to your head instantly killing you because hit boxes.
I have over 8 clips of me dying to a unfortunate random hunter flying to my head while fighting against a sole charger 3 seconds after I completed my jump while repositioning. Jump pack IS NOT foolproof, and some mistakes aren't even mistakes.
Which is funny, but definitely shows that strategem is not *that* good. Could it have been avoided? Maybe, but bringing a different strategem could have solved those situations much better.

Yeah. If you're getting headshot by hunters,then you've already made mistakes. You've already given up too much space. That's the whole point of the Jump Pack. It allows you to simply avoid ever being in those situations.

Again, I'm running no-death solo Helldives with the Jump Pack. And again, it's the only thing that allows me to do it. The fact that you're even comparing it to energy shield tells me you're not very knowledgeable about the game. Energy shield is a trap. It always has been. It almost triples the size of your hitbox, meaning you're constantly catching rockets, and it does next to nothing against bugs. The only good use being that it can prevent you from being slowed, which is something that basic positioning will achieve on it's own.

[Josith]

Agree. They ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up weapons that were not even seeming to be all that commonly used, such as eruptor. How hard was it to get that charger kill? I sure never did it, lol. Forever f^^cking over the mass cases for a fringe case. It was at no point OP, just good at it's "niche" that they supposedly care about. And god forbid - pretty fun for what it was. It's niche now, is the balance dev's moms emergency dildo. ♥♥♥♥ these clowns

[Rabby]

Originally posted by mf tom:

Yeah. If you're getting headshot by hunters,then you've already made mistakes. You've already given up too much space. That's the whole point of the Jump Pack. It allows you to simply avoid ever being in those situations.

Again, I'm running no-death solo Helldives with the Jump Pack. And again, it's the only thing that allows me to do it. The fact that you're even comparing it to energy shield tells me you're not very knowledgeable about the game. Energy shield is a trap. It always has been. It almost triples the size of your hitbox, meaning you're constantly catching rockets, and it does next to nothing against bugs. The only good use being that it can prevent you from being slowed, which is something that basic positioning will achieve on it's own.

I thought you owned the game in playstation since you didn't had the mouse icon. However from your post, I honestly don't even think you even play this game at this point. So this is gonna be my last statement to you.

Hunters CAN reach large distances, there are tons of footage of hunters obliterating players by lunging more than 15 meters away with full health. No amount of current Jump pack can help you if the game decides to just screw you over.

Energy Shield IS NOT a trap. You lose the shield if meaningless stuff hits you, even if rockets hit your shield, you are immune to knockback. So it doesn't even matter if your shield sucked up useless hits. It more than protects against bugs. Be it from acid, random hunters, stalkers hits that would normally make you fly, bile spitters. Everything. There is a reason why everyone hated the first meta of the game. Shield was just that good and still is.

Even if the shield sucked up useless stuff, it comes back extremely quickly. It's very clear that you don't know anything about how ridiculous the shield is.

Basic positioning will not ALWAYS protect you. There are countless situations where you are simply screwed. Even a tiny slow will be your grave, which used to be even worse prior to nerf of acid. Have you ever had to face against 3 stalkers while a single hunter gave you that acid?
You could have easily deal with 3 stalkers normally. But because of that acid, your jump pack is useless since you don't cover distance to begin with, your dives are sole grace and only thing that will keep you alive.

These things CAN happen on regular basis. Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it never happened to other people.

On a another note, solo helldive is not something to brag about. As main strategy is just to run after doing anything and not engage with enemy, very different from normal solo queue match. I will admit however no death is quite accomplishment.
That is however IF you own the game. Which I dont think you do.

And finally, just above my tl;dr there is a sentence:
Just because you can do it, doesn't mean everyone can.
If I beat you in chess, does that make your opinion completely invalidated anything regarding chess?

Originally posted by Outdated:

maybe I am a noob but from the individual perspective the jump pack seems to be the best by a longshot. It gives you a amount of tactical control you wouldn't have otherwise.
That said it would be silly if the others were useless either....

maybe the shield just fits your playstyle better then the jump pack?

Cheers mate, there are variety of opinions on jump pack. I personally wished if they did it the same as OG helldivers where it had 3 times jump.
I do like the shield, but I find jump pack just that much fun to use it on my matches

[SilentHero]

I didn't even realize the jump pack existed since the supply pack is so awesome and does so much more than just keep you alive.
However, because some random person on YouTube made some clips, people will swear by it being OP.

[Rabby]

Originally posted by SilentHero:

I didn't even realize the jump pack existed since the supply pack is so awesome and does so much more than just keep you alive.
However, because some random person on YouTube made some clips, people will swear by it being OP.

Supply pack the real MVP. If I ever see a person with supply pack, I'm more than willing to take a bullet for them just because the amount of times they saved my arse.

[SilentHero]

Originally posted by Rabby:

Originally posted by SilentHero:

I didn't even realize the jump pack existed since the supply pack is so awesome and does so much more than just keep you alive.
However, because some random person on YouTube made some clips, people will swear by it being OP.

Supply pack the real MVP. If I ever see a person with supply pack, I'm more than willing to take a bullet for them just because the amount of times they saved my arse.

Nice post, Rabby; it was enjoyable to read.

Bravo!

[Aticoy]

I'm sorry. Balancing for fun isn't what the developers aim at.