Stratagem descriptions are misleading

[Henkka]

When you unlock stratagems, you'll see the basic notes for each such as Call-in Time, Uses and Cooldown Time. However, there are stratagems that have the same notes but are quite different.

Example 1: Eagle Airstrike
Call-in Time: 0 sec
Uses: 2
Cooldown Time: 8 sec
Traits: Explosive, Eagle

Example 2: Orbital Laser
Call-in Time: 1 sec
Uses: 3
Cooldown Time: 300 sec
Traits: Orbital

On surface level these seem to function in the same way. Short call-in time, couple of uses and then cooldown time. However, in the Eagle Aistrike's case, the cooldown of 8 sec is between the 2 uses before rearming and no rearming time has been listed for whatever reason (couple of minutes without ship modules).

The Orbital Laser on the other hand has 3 uses in total per mission but this is not explained anywhere. The notes look like identical and it would be reasonable to expect it to work the same way as the Eagle Airstrike but it obviously doesn't.

Then if we take a look at the Eagle 500kg Bomb, you'll see that it has no cooldown time (Cooldown Time: N/A). This can mislead the user to think that the mission has only one 500kg bomb available even though in reality it just requires a rearm, same as the Eagle Airstrike.

I think the notes should be rethought to be more clear where the terms are not used to mean different things such as in the case of "Uses" where with one stratagem it means uses between rearms and with another it means uses in the entire mission and a third one has "Unlimited" which just means that you can call it again after the cooldown time is done. Or with the "Cooldown Time" where one stratagem starts ticking automatically down and another requires a manual rearming if multiple same category stratagems are in use.

[Shatara42]

I'm pretty sure it's consistent, Orbitals are per-mission, and Eagles are per-reload. It could probably be explained better somewhere.

[Henkka]

The problem is that the orbitals are not all "per mission". You can use Walking Barrage, Orbital Gatling, 120mm and 230mm as many times as you want per mission. And the in-game screen where the main stratagem notes are displayed, none of this is explained.

If you look at the Eagle 500kg Bomb, its notes look more like it is a single use stratagem while actually requiring just rearming to be used again.

The problem is that "uses" with Eagles means different than "uses" with orbitals. Same with the "cooldown time". For orbitals it means the time between another use while with Eagles it means the short time before the aircraft can attack again as long as it has still ammo left. But Eagles on the other hand have no notes about having rearm time.

[Axis of Lint]

I agree, some clarification could be useful. The other issue that I ran into without realising for a while is that if you have two separate eagle strikes, if you call one in and don't use it up and then call in another, the eagle will 'remain on station' and won't rearm if you use up all the charges of one, until the other is also depleted, which can be problematic if you're running the 500kg bomb with say, clusters, since you're far more likely to use up the 500kg way before you do the clusters.

[Henkka]

Yeah, noticed that myself, too. I'm using the Eagle Airstrike and unlocked the 500kg bomb yesterday and wondered why isn't it rearming and just has something like "can't be used now" type of text on it and I thought I was either in some AA-covered area or there was some other thing that prevented the Eagles to fly. Only after I used the Airstrikes and the Eagle went to rearm, did I notice that the 500kg bomb also reloaded.

[Mandemon]

IMO game should explain difference between orbitals and Eagle strikes better. There is no way to understand what is the difference between "Eagle airstrike" and "Oribital strike".

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Shatara42:

I'm pretty sure it's consistent, Orbitals are per-mission, and Eagles are per-reload.

And eagle rearm makes all eagle stratagems go on cooldown.

Originally posted by Mandemon:

There is no way to understand what is the difference between "Eagle airstrike" and "Oribital strike".

No way? Then how come i understand the difference between armament of a plane and orbital support?

I mean you said there is no way this is possible.

[Mandemon]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Originally posted by Mandemon:

There is no way to understand what is the difference between "Eagle airstrike" and "Oribital strike".

No way? Then how come i understand the difference between armament of a plane and orbital support?

I mean you said there is no way this is possible.

That is because the game never says what an Eagle is. Unless you see it in action, there is no way to figure out that Eagle is a strike craft you call in.

There is also no indication that Eagle operates on loadout system, where it can strike X amount but after that all Eagle strategems go on cooldown.

Where as Orbitals you can figure as you like, each one has a separate cooldown.

Only way to learn these is through experience or checking a guide.

[DeathRow]

its not that deep bro, anyone can figure this out the first time they use an eagle

[70's Legend]

Bro wrote all that when playing 2 missions would fix is issue.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Mandemon:

That is because the game never says what an Eagle is. Unless you see it in action, there is no way to figure out that Eagle is a strike craft you call in.

So the word Airstrike never clued you in that it is an Airstrike?

Originally posted by Mandemon:

There is also no indication that Eagle operates on loadout system, where it can strike X amount but after that all Eagle strategems go on cooldown.

You mean aside from the stratagem menu that has a number of uses on it?

Originally posted by Mandemon:

Only way to learn these is through experience

Oh, so there is a way to know after all?

Edit:
It's almost like your an untrained cadet, that went through a farce of a bootcamp and is so unimportant that they are loaded into tiny metal tubes like sardines in a can.

[Mandemon]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Originally posted by Mandemon:

Only way to learn these is through experience

Oh, so there is a way to know after all?

Edit:
It's almost like your an untrained cadet, that went through a farce of a bootcamp and is so unimportant that they are loaded into tiny metal tubes like sardines in a can.

Hey, you are right, why don't we cut out entire strategem training off too. All descriptions too. People can learn them from trying, right?

There is difference "lore says we are expendable chaff" and "what makes game fun"

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Mandemon:

There is difference "lore says we are expendable chaff" and "what makes game fun"

All eagle stratagems are in the Hangar section and the first two are called Strafing Run and Airstrike. That is part of the description.

You not paying attention is not the games fault. It is very hard to miss that Orbital and Eagle are different and that Eagle is plane based. Even the icon is an airplane.

Maybe don't go brain afk and assume the game needs to baby you. The rearm thing you'll realize the first time you use more than one eagle strat.

[Tibcsikid]

Originally posted by Henkka:

When you unlock stratagems, you'll see the basic notes for each such as Call-in Time, Uses and Cooldown Time. However, there are stratagems that have the same notes but are quite different.

Example 1: Eagle Airstrike
Call-in Time: 0 sec
Uses: 2
Cooldown Time: 8 sec
Traits: Explosive, Eagle

Example 2: Orbital Laser
Call-in Time: 1 sec
Uses: 3
Cooldown Time: 300 sec
Traits: Orbital

On surface level these seem to function in the same way. Short call-in time, couple of uses and then cooldown time. However, in the Eagle Aistrike's case, the cooldown of 8 sec is between the 2 uses before rearming and no rearming time has been listed for whatever reason (couple of minutes without ship modules).

The Orbital Laser on the other hand has 3 uses in total per mission but this is not explained anywhere. The notes look like identical and it would be reasonable to expect it to work the same way as the Eagle Airstrike but it obviously doesn't.

Then if we take a look at the Eagle 500kg Bomb, you'll see that it has no cooldown time (Cooldown Time: N/A). This can mislead the user to think that the mission has only one 500kg bomb available even though in reality it just requires a rearm, same as the Eagle Airstrike.

I think the notes should be rethought to be more clear where the terms are not used to mean different things such as in the case of "Uses" where with one stratagem it means uses between rearms and with another it means uses in the entire mission and a third one has "Unlimited" which just means that you can call it again after the cooldown time is done. Or with the "Cooldown Time" where one stratagem starts ticking automatically down and another requires a manual rearming if multiple same category stratagems are in use.

But they do say their uses. Like Orbital Railcannon is written as unlimited while the laser is written as 3. Same goes for the Eagles and so on.

[Henkka]

Originally posted by Tibcsikid:

But they do say their uses. Like Orbital Railcannon is written as unlimited while the laser is written as 3. Same goes for the Eagles and so on.

The orbitals are almost all unlimited (except for the orbital laser) and so are the Eagle stratagems. The orbitals have a cooldown time of XYZ and the Eagles have a cooldown time between uses and then another cooldown time when rearming.

The game uses the same words ("uses" and "cooldown time") to mean different things. That is the problem. Yes, you can learn them by trial and error but that is a terrible way to learn when they could just make the descriptions of the stratagems more clear. Now it just looks as if they came up with few descriptive words and threw them in haphazardly, having them mean different things for different stratagems.

If you first unlock the Eagle Airstrike and see that the uses are "2" and then you play the game and see that "oh, you can have 2 bombing runs and then it goes to rearm itself and then I have more and more bombing runs as much as I can call down".

Then you unlock the Orbital laser and you see the exact same descriptions in the stratagem info panel: uses "3". So, your brain will go "oh, so it's the same as the Eagle: can call it down three times and then it goes to recharge/reload". Or, even better: you've already used the other orbitals and combine the knowledge of the Eagles' functionality with the orbitals and expect it to be "3 shots and recharge". And then you use it and surprise, surprise, the 3 uses were actually just 3 uses per mission. No rearming, recharging or actual cooldown.

TL;DR:
You can't write descriptions of gameplay elements, use the same words but have them mean different things. It's just bad UI/UX design.

[DeathRow]

Originally posted by Henkka:

Originally posted by Tibcsikid:

But they do say their uses. Like Orbital Railcannon is written as unlimited while the laser is written as 3. Same goes for the Eagles and so on.

The orbitals are almost all unlimited (except for the orbital laser) and so are the Eagle stratagems. The orbitals have a cooldown time of XYZ and the Eagles have a cooldown time between uses and then another cooldown time when rearming.

The game uses the same words ("uses" and "cooldown time") to mean different things. That is the problem. Yes, you can learn them by trial and error but that is a terrible way to learn when they could just make the descriptions of the stratagems more clear. Now it just looks as if they came up with few descriptive words and threw them in haphazardly, having them mean different things for different stratagems.

If you first unlock the Eagle Airstrike and see that the uses are "2" and then you play the game and see that "oh, you can have 2 bombing runs and then it goes to rearm itself and then I have more and more bombing runs as much as I can call down".

Then you unlock the Orbital laser and you see the exact same descriptions in the stratagem info panel: uses "3". So, your brain will go "oh, so it's the same as the Eagle: can call it down three times and then it goes to recharge/reload". Or, even better: you've already used the other orbitals and combine the knowledge of the Eagles' functionality with the orbitals and expect it to be "3 shots and recharge". And then you use it and surprise, surprise, the 3 uses were actually just 3 uses per mission. No rearming, recharging or actual cooldown.

TL;DR:
You can't write descriptions of gameplay elements, use the same words but have them mean different things. It's just bad UI/UX design.

those words dont mean different things, only difference is that you cant rearm the orbital