Orbital Barrages don't suck, you do: How not to be TehSuk

[VoiD]

Now that I've ragebaited your attention let's get straight to the point.

Stratagem slots: There are only 4 of them, this makes their selection rather restrictive, but also, very important.

Most people will try to get a mixed build with a support weapon and/or a backpack, then an eagle strike and possibly a sentry, maybe an anti armor orbital railgun strike and that's it.

Sometimes people will try to use one of the orbital bombardments, realize they can't hit ♥♥♥♥ and eventually move on to never using any of them ever again, and they are not wrong to think they are useless.

Before we get into the subject of orbital barrages let's talk about stratagems in general:

Support Equipment - Meant to enhance your fighting power against various threats, guard dogs can wipe out all the fodder for your team while you focus on bigger targets, shield generators can make your squad several times tougher, railguns can handle any threat in the game, and so on... But here's one thing most players don't think about: They run on cooldowns, if your team wastes 4 slots for weapons, and 4 slots for backpacks, once the first 5 minutes of a mission are over you're left with 8 dead stratagem slots incapable of giving your team any benefits whatsoever, do you really need to bring one of each in every single mission?

Eagle Strikes: Great, precise, dedly, spammy, these are perfect tools to be used DURING combat, you can sniper a titan with a 500kg bomb, you can bait multiple chargers and kill them in the same way, you can carpet bomb an incoming patrol to wipe them all out, but they have diminishing returns, one eagle strike is always a welcome addition to any build, 2 not so much, 3 are horrible, they all share the same cooldowns, and the same reload timers.

Sentries: Defensive structures, most of them are useless DURING combat in higher difficulties as they most likely will get trampled by a charger before they can even properly set up, but if you can predict engagements a couple of well placed sentries can wipe out entire patrols and their reinforcements for your team.

And then there are the Orbital strikes, why am I suggesting the issue is more of an user error than an issue with orbital barrages? Because people are commiting 2 fatal mistakes in their usage.

1: Orbital barrages take too long to initiate, and are too imprecise, they are not meant to be used DURING combat save for very extreme situations, they are more likely to kill your own team than hit the intended target, specially once bugs are already crawling everywhere.

2: People don't seem to understand the concept of saturation fire, if you use a single orbital barrage, sure, you'll be relying on luck to hit the intented target, if you use 3, or even 4 barrages all at once, in the same place, then there is no luck involved, EVERYTHING in the area will be leveled to the ground.

This is why I personally believe an orbital strike build needs to go all in, it's all or nothing, either pick some support strikes from eagles, or bring at LEAST 3 orbital barrages, and relly on your teamates to summon extra support equipment for you later on.

Playing an orbital build is more or less like playing a saboteur/assassin, try to get as close as possible while crouching or crawling to the largest enemy bases/objectives, and throw your 120mm barrage, followed by the 380mm barrage, and as you retreat send a walking barrage slightly closer to your feet so it can move into the enemy base, I promise you'll like the results, EVERYTHING will be destroyed, it works with large robot bases, large bug nests, egg destruction objectives, etc...

Worst case scenario 1 or 2 ragets will survive the destruction, but all of the guards, patrols and reinforcements are probably already dead, so you can just walk in safely and destroy whatever is left.

An orbital build is by far the fastest, safest and most efficient way to destroy enemy bases, it may not feel necessary at lower difficulties, but having one player in your team bringing in the siege artillery can be very useful for Helldive difficulty, allowing your team to completely skip some big, hard battles by simply erasing targets from the map.

Let me know if you've tried this and how it went.

Edit: Seeing is believing
https://youtube.com/shorts/nM3I1eRbAu4 vs bugs
https://youtube.com/shorts/z7RjAXziNGQ vs automatons

[Akameka]

It might indeed be a good idea, but there are few problems with that.

- hard to pull with randoms, as it's unlikely they will gives you a spare weapon.
- You are left with nothing for a long time once you pull this.
- You need 3 stratagems to get the effect you would expect from a single one. AKA, destroying what you throw it at.
- Impossible to pull anywhere near allies (especially randoms), as the saturation fire has very wide spread.
- If the "increased bombardment spread" modifier is active, Not only you still risk missing your target, but you'll create an extremely wide no entry area for you and your allies for a long time.

[Elvi]

I think the main problem is that you can throw 2 barrages into a large base and still hit nothing, Or completely obliterate everything. There is zero concsitency and most people do want some, as basically playing slots everytime you use a strategem as to whether it will do anything at all is "meh".

[Qua2ar]

Originally posted by Akameka:

It might indeed be a good idea, but there are few problems with that.

- hard to pull with randoms, as it's unlikely they will gives you a spare weapon.
- You are left with nothing for a long time once you pull this.
- You need 3 stratagems to get the effect you would expect from a single one. AKA, destroying what you throw it at.
- Impossible to pull anywhere near allies (especially randoms), as the saturation fire has very wide spread.
- If the "increased bombardment spread" modifier is active, Not only you still risk missing your target, but you'll create an extremely wide no entry area for you and your allies for a long time.

The last point is wrong, making the spread even bigger will reduce the chance of it hitting you since the amount of shots stays the same.

[Fang]

I would never go in without at least one Orbital. They make destroying static ♥♥♥♥ and heavies that are stuck so much easier. The very first upgrade takes a second off the call-in time too.

When it comes to bases, once you git gud at estimating the throwing range and angle you can toss it right on top of fabricator rooftops and destroy spawners before getting close.

Eagle Airstrikes can do it too but they sometimes miss which seems entirely RNG.

[Addex78]

Orbitals don't really suck but why pick most of them over an Eagle strike lmao.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Elvi:

I think the main problem is that you can throw 2 barrages into a large base and still hit nothing, Or completely obliterate everything. There is zero concsitency and most people do want some, as basically playing slots everytime you use a strategem as to whether it will do anything at all is "meh".

When I've tried 3+ barrages I've never seen a base survive the bombardment, might be possible if someone is horribly unlucky but at some point, if the entire area is getting leveled luck really isn't a relevant factor anymore.

I don't know if you play total war games, but it's the same idea there, if you bring 1 or 2 artillery regiments you'll relly on luck to hit some important targets before they reach your frontlines, if you bring half of your army as artillery you'll often level the entire battlefield before they can even start fighting, that's saturation fire.

Originally posted by Akameka:

It might indeed be a good idea, but there are few problems with that.

- hard to pull with randoms, as it's unlikely they will gives you a spare weapon.
- You are left with nothing for a long time once you pull this.
- You need 3 stratagems to get the effect you would expect from a single one. AKA, destroying what you throw it at.
- Impossible to pull anywhere near allies (especially randoms), as the saturation fire has very wide spread.
- If the "increased bombardment spread" modifier is active, Not only you still risk missing your target, but you'll create an extremely wide no entry area for you and your allies for a long time.

Most issues are related to random teams, granted I don't usually play with randoms, but I've used it on solo play and premade teams, both at Helldiver dif, and they worked rather well, I'd imagine you'd often be able to get a good support weapon by waiting for some random to die, eventually, and get their gun, as they realize they can just summon another.

[ImHelping]

People who throw a beacon directly into a nest or factory hole, and then it is still standing, deserve to be irritated.

I should be bringing things like precision orbital because it is good. Not because it is a faster cooldown backup option than "So *half the barrage list* didn't break anything, and the rest of my strat list is a support weapon and emergency nuke for enemies"

But the skill issues brainworms are so deep, that people honestly are calling people getting close enough to slam dunk their orbital beacon, again, inside of the hole, "Skill issues should have thrown more carefully and in the right scenario. anyways if they miss that is realistic and immersive anyways"

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Addex78:

Orbitals don't really suck but why pick most of them over an Eagle strike lmao.

Because 1 eagle strike is great, 2 are pretty bad, 3 are terrible.


You can't saturate a base by throwing one eagle strike, waiting for impact, waiting for cooldowns, then send another, wait for impact, wait for cooldowns, then throw in the 3rd.

If you throw all orbital barrages at once, when the first shell hits, all of them start landing all at once, guards often don't even have time to call reinforcements, everything in the area gets deleted. That's saturation fire.

Edit: Also, they are too precise to cover the entire area of a base like artillery can.

[Elvi]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Originally posted by Elvi:

I think the main problem is that you can throw 2 barrages into a large base and still hit nothing, Or completely obliterate everything. There is zero concsitency and most people do want some, as basically playing slots everytime you use a strategem as to whether it will do anything at all is "meh".

When I've tried 3+ barrages I've never seen a base survive the bombardment, might be possible if someone is horribly unlucky but at some point, if the entire area is getting leveled luck really isn't a relevant factor anymore.

I don't know if you play total war games, but it's the same idea there, if you bring 1 or 2 artillery regiments you'll relly on luck to hit some important targets before they reach your frontlines, if you bring half of your army as artillery you'll often level the entire battlefield before they can even start fighting, that's saturation fire.

Yeah, but ultimately, I would and I think most people would, rather bring strategems that you know will hit what you use them on, when used correctly, rather than having to use 3 strategems for a decent dice roll of hitting something in larger area, regardless of how well or badly you used it.

The artillery example I get, but ultimatelly you know the area where it will hit and you can make you chances better in many ways. Here you drop a ball, hope it doesn't just keep hitting walls and then have nothing for the next 5 minutes.

Would you like a gun that has 50% chance to cause double damage and 50% chance to not shoot at all everytime you pull the trigger? I wouldn't.

[Captain Furious]

Pretty sure “rage baiting” is against TOS and yet you openly admit to it

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by Captain Furious:

Pretty sure “rage baiting” is against TOS and yet you openly admit to it

Across the entire internet. Reports only matter if a mod takes it personally, or it is making a game/company look bad, or might get lawyers angry at the company.

Like how if you joke bringing up game breaking bugs feels like someone is hold a gun to the back of your head ready to kill you for reporting it, can get you temp banned for "Threatening others"

But somebody spamming an impolite word for mentally disabled a dozen times because they are super mad about your opinions on a videogame? nah, it's fine.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Elvi:

Originally posted by VoiD:

When I've tried 3+ barrages I've never seen a base survive the bombardment, might be possible if someone is horribly unlucky but at some point, if the entire area is getting leveled luck really isn't a relevant factor anymore.

I don't know if you play total war games, but it's the same idea there, if you bring 1 or 2 artillery regiments you'll relly on luck to hit some important targets before they reach your frontlines, if you bring half of your army as artillery you'll often level the entire battlefield before they can even start fighting, that's saturation fire.

Yeah, but ultimately, I would and I think most people would, rather bring strategems that you know will hit what you use them on, when used correctly, rather than having to use 3 strategems for a decent dice roll of hitting something in larger area, regardless of how well or badly you used it.

The artillery example I get, but ultimatelly you know the area where it will hit and you can make you chances better in many ways. Here you drop a ball, hope it doesn't just keep hitting walls and then have nothing for the next 5 minutes.

Would you like a gun that has 50% chance to cause double damage and 50% chance to not shoot at all everytime you pull the trigger? I wouldn't.

But that's the point, you'd have less than 1% of chance of not hitting the target (and a bunch of extra stuff around it).

At some point you'd have to win the lottery to avoid every single shell.

IE: Imagine you're fighting with a squad in long range against one guy with a SMG, he empties his clip, very innacurate, there's a good chance he won't be hitting anyone at 200m.

Now imagine your same squad is being faced with 10 mounted machineguns emptying their 200 bullet clips each in your general area.

Even if every shot is wildly innacurate there comes a point where you'd need a miracle to not get hit by something, but all MGs need to be firing at your area, all at once for this to happen.

Originally posted by Captain Furious:

Pretty sure “rage baiting” is against TOS and yet you openly admit to it

Pretty sure that's meant against malicious behavior actually trying to make people feel bad.

[Chaos]

Nah, only the precision, gatling, railgun and laser are somewhat passable.
Anything else get beaten by either their eagle counter part or better off just using support weapon.
Actually only laser was good among the orbital, but it's got gimped by being limited use.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by Chaos:

Nah, only the precision, gatling, railgun and laser are somewhat passable.
Anything else get beaten by either their eagle counter part or better off just using support weapon.

As another case of ass backwards logic. Even as a gatling appoligist, try bringing airburst against the robots.

Because of COURSE the 'bad against armor' orbital that sucks against the bugs due to staggered spawns and heavy armor spam, will erase every walker in the entire zip code thanks to the open air cockpits.

Hmm, skynet is attacking with terminators. Better use the hollowpoint rounds and barbed arrows... aw hell, squishy bugs with a wobbly bug butt? Gonna need the anti-tank rockets for this one.

[Zheppon]

orbital barrage suck because half of the time you throw it to something it doesnt do what it needs to do and nothing you say will make me change my mind

I have try many times using 120 and 300 barrage but its all outclassed by eagle strat.

so yes once again orbital suck and you suck for assuming you know everything.