How do you guys not see this game's political angle

[The Pants]

MODS: Close this, everyone's just crazy in it now and most people didn't even read what I said in the first place

Like, straight up, since this is now the most popular shooter on steam there's a bunch of you brigading and botting to go "DON'T ADD THE GAY STUFF, KEEP THIS GAME POLITICS FREE AND NEUTRAL" and like... how do you not see it? I suppose you are all 13, which might explain some things.

This game completely takes the tone of Verhoven's Starship Troopers, which was an extrapolation of Reagan/Bush ur-fascism into a full on fascist state. Super Earth is confident in its superiority and corny in its optimism and enthusiasm. It fights for freedom, not just for itself, but for the whole galaxy. It's a force for good! But its clearly not. It says it cares for its people, but it throws them into meat grinders. It says it cares about democracy, but it's MANAGED democracy where certain groups of people are able to vote between certain options. It talks about its superior technology, but we can see that the Eagle doesn't look like a fancy sci-fi ship at all, our laser guns are full of tubes and circuits, and our turrets can't even track targets and differentiate between friend and foe.

The first Helldivers was far more clear about this, with it clear that the bugs weren't any threat to us before we started killing them because they could be ground up into oil, the automatons being people augmenting themselves rather than straight the ♥♥♥♥ up terminators, and a faction of cool nanomagic aliens who had just started to work their way into space until Super Earth decided to declare war on them to stop them and take their tech. So I suppose I have two advantages, being old enough to have a functioning brain during the years of 2001-2015 and playing the first one, but it's not exactly hidden.

There's some fascinating things at play that obscure it, mostly that now that we HAVE full on fascist movements, they don't look or sound anything like their ur-fascist predecessors, but the excellent enemy re-imagining and design play a part too. Helldivers 1 was uncomfortable, but Helldivers 2 full on sells the idea of being part of this cheesy world where it's actually a good idea to fight for liberty and justice against robots who chop people up and put their skulls on them as trophies. But there is a very very clear political bent to it.

And it's against the guys who are mad about the potential for any sort of symbolism that would make gay/bi/trans people feel accepted. At this point, even Super Earth wouldn't have you. It's a tolerant society where a mixed race couple is shown as the victims of a sudden bug attack.

[Seth Abercromby]

Автор сообщения: Black Magic

Verhoeven didn't "misunderstand" the book, though. That's where the YouTube analytics fall apart.

He understood it, and parodied it. That was his intent.

So even though Verhooven openly admitted he didn't even read two chapters of the book somehow divined the true meaning of the text, then decided to make a very poor parody of the book. Sure the movie wears all the superficial imagery of a certain mid-20th century German regime, but then also tells you military service is not only entirely voluntary, but also actively discouraged, and is only a requirement to vote or be elected. Meanwhile Rico's parents both do not have citizenship, yet are extremely wealthy and influential upper class. His father sees citizenship as a waste of time and just wants him to take over the family business (traitorous thought in an actual totalitarian regime).

Any time you point to the things Verhooven included as a superficial simulacrum of what he thinks fascism is (which he clearly did understand very little of as an avowed communist), the only real response is "so what?". Even by the politics shown in the movie his message failed because it comes across a libertarian society with a militaristic bend, which was pretty much what Heinlein wanted to advocate for in his book. If you want to engage with the actual politics be my guest, but if all you can point to is black uniforms and a flag, both of which were invented by Verhooven himself, then there isn't a whole lot of merit to be fund.

[OldWhovian]

Автор сообщения: Seth Abercromby

tells you military service is not only entirely voluntary, but also actively discouraged

Автор сообщения: Seth Abercromby

[military service] is only a requirement to vote or be elected

So discouraged that in order to participate in society one must commit to it.

[Narky]

Автор сообщения: OldWhovian

Автор сообщения: Seth Abercromby

tells you military service is not only entirely voluntary, but also actively discouraged

Автор сообщения: Seth Abercromby

[military service] is only a requirement to vote or be elected

So discouraged that in order to participate in society one must commit to it.

A point they keep conveniently leaving out.

[TSE Imperator]

Автор сообщения: The Pants

I've spent my life in academia up until a few years ago, transitioning out of it and into the "real world."

Modern academia is a rotting corpse of what it once was.

Also, Heinlein was correct about the failings of liberal democracy. We're witnessing it live today.

In the end though, none of this matters. Play the game and have some fun.

[Seth Abercromby]

Автор сообщения: OldWhovian

So discouraged that in order to participate in society one must commit to it.

Again, both of his parents didn't gain citizenship yet hold substantial wealth and influence, including in politics. Voting isn't the sole function of being a member of society.

[The Pants]

Автор сообщения: Snow

I think the political point of this game is more complex than can be explained by just saying Fascism. It seems like more of an extension of Liberal Democracy than a break into Fascism. Liberal Democracies can also be warmongering, xenophobic, and suppress dissent. We are living in Super Earth already. If you are a Liberal who does not see that, you are just as bad as the Fascists.

I mean, we're NOT living in Super Earth, catastrophizing helps nobody. But, like I SAID, Verhoven was satirizing the ur-fascist jingoism and war fervor of the Reagan/Bush era. Starship Troopers is a cool movie and was kept relevant through W./Obama because that sort of confident, optimistic, and enthusiastic certainty in the strength, power and goodness of the US despite any obvious problems was very much the conservative ethos.

Only now do we see that true fascist movements can't be those things. They are romantic, reactionary, and revanchist: they can only truly arise from a feeling of inferiority and grievance. Super Earth, while certainly meeting all the definitions of a fascist state, doesn't talk or think like one. It's much too confident in itself and far too interested in abstract ideals.

This is one of the things that may make the game not hit as hard as it did as the first, but, like I SAID, a big part of that is also the enemy design. But either way, this is still clearly not a neutral game politically. It's very much a critique of a particular thing.

[The Pants]

Автор сообщения: NekoMimiTime

Автор сообщения: The Pants

I've spent my life in academia up until a few years ago, transitioning out of it and into the "real world."

Modern academia is a rotting corpse of what it once was.

Also, Heinlein was correct about the failings of liberal democracy. We're witnessing it live today.

In the end though, none of this matters. Play the game and have some fun.

No it isn't, and thanks for providing a great example of how fascists talk and why Super Earth doesn't hit as hard as a parody as it used to!

[Turk]

Автор сообщения: OldWhovian

Автор сообщения: Seth Abercromby

tells you military service is not only entirely voluntary, but also actively discouraged

Автор сообщения: Seth Abercromby

[military service] is only a requirement to vote or be elected

So discouraged that in order to participate in society one must commit to it.

Автор сообщения: Black Magic

Автор сообщения: OldWhovian

So discouraged that in order to participate in society one must commit to it.

A point they keep conveniently leaving out.

You two could at least try to read the book or watch the movie.

Civil service for enfranchisement is not limited to active combat roles, nor is it even limited to the military. Civilians can sign up for dangerous mining contracts, medical trials, etc if they want to participate in politics.

The whole idea is that someone who isn't willing to endanger themselves for society's sake shouldn't be able to make decisions for that society that could put other people in danger.

Go ahead and continue to somehow misunderstand both the source material and the poor attempt at satire that the film markets itself as.

[Aradia Megido]

it certainly is weird finding literal sacraficial altars the b0ts have set up

alm0st makes me feel like its s0me s0rt 0f paran0iac manifestati0n 0f 0ur helldivers brains instead 0f reality

[TSE Imperator]

Автор сообщения: The Pants

thanks for providing a great example of how fascists talk and why Super Earth doesn't hit as hard as a parody as it used to!

Your writing is hilarious dude. You attempt to come across as enlightened but every post betrays both your extreme left bias and political ignorance. I bet you have Communist paraphernalia in your house somewhere.

[Mania]

I thoroughly enjoy this game, and personally consider myself someone who's happy to be American, but this game does have a very valid political message inherent in it's gameplay from the training manual tips, to the entire plot itself.

If you really think about certain elements, this becomes insanely obvious. OP is 100% right that this satirically references Reagan and Bush era policies.

[OldWhovian]

Автор сообщения: Turk

Автор сообщения: OldWhovian

So discouraged that in order to participate in society one must commit to it.

Автор сообщения: Black Magic

A point they keep conveniently leaving out.

You two could at least try to read the book or watch the movie.

Civil service for enfranchisement is not limited to active combat roles, nor is it even limited to the military. Civilians can sign up for dangerous mining contracts, medical trials, etc if they want to participate in politics.

The whole idea is that someone who isn't willing to endanger themselves for society's sake shouldn't be able to make decisions for that society that could put other people in danger.

Go ahead and continue to somehow misunderstand both the source material and the poor attempt at satire that the film markets itself as.

Ah yes; the "civil service." Crazy how it's mentioned but then we only hear about the absolutely massive military they have and the endless wave of soldiers they can throw at the bugs. Oh, and uh...don't forget the hitler's youth child soldiers.

But yeah totally; people that have bought into the extreme fascist military dogma should be the only ones participating in the "democracy". Very For The People of you. Extremely non-fashy.

[Moffin Bovin]

Автор сообщения: Turk

Civil service for enfranchisement is not limited to active combat roles, nor is it even limited to the military. Civilians can sign up for dangerous mining contracts, medical trials, etc if they want to participate in politics.

adding the bit about dangerous mining and medical experiments doesn't make sound any better.

[The Pants]

Автор сообщения: NekoMimiTime

Автор сообщения: The Pants

thanks for providing a great example of how fascists talk and why Super Earth doesn't hit as hard as a parody as it used to!

Your writing is hilarious dude. You attempt to come across as enlightened but every post betrays both your extreme left bias and political ignorance. I bet you have Communist paraphernalia in your house somewhere.

Nope! But thanks again for showing what I mean!

[Mania]

Автор сообщения: NekoMimiTime

Автор сообщения: The Pants

thanks for providing a great example of how fascists talk and why Super Earth doesn't hit as hard as a parody as it used to!

Your writing is hilarious dude. You attempt to come across as enlightened but every post betrays both your extreme left bias and political ignorance. I bet you have Communist paraphernalia in your house somewhere.

Ironically, this comment reinforces the games satire with the "I bet you have communist paraphernalia" comment.