5/6 Helldiver Squad Size: A thought to discuss

[SithLoveChild]

First, I am just putting this here for the start of a discussion and to see if there are any like minded divers and groups of divers out there that run into a similar issue. We are 5 Helldivers trying to spread democracy!

Back story TL;DR

I have a group of 5 with a sometimes 6th that play games on and off and as we get older the times that we are all on at the same time has gotten lessened but it does still occur. The issue is that if we get together in person for a LAN like evening or online we often are stuck playing games that accommodate the 5th or 6th person. GoW5 Horde is one such game that allows all 5 of us to play together. Anything more than 5 and we are sent to matchmaking to do PVP, which as I get older on my gaming journey I dislike more and more the PVP aspect of games.

So Helldivers 2 is a huge hit for us but we get into an issue of not enough space for us all at the same time. Below is my selfish solution:

6 Helldiver Squads instead of 4

Balance and implementation be it a different game mode is way outside my payrate

My 6 Helldiver Squad Idea:

Slot 1: CO(Commanding Officer) Highest upgraded ship*
Slot 2: NCO (noncommissioned officer) Second highest upgraded ship*

Slots 3-6: Enlisted Helldiver
*random if all else the same

CO would be have special "CO boosters/Leadership booster" that are locked to that squad slot and would provide group benefits for how many helldivers are in close proximity. eg. "nearby helldivers receive X% damage reduction for each nearby helldiver"

NCO would have similar in that they are slot exclusive but would be "NCO Boosters" that would give squad utility . eg. squad cooldown, squad reload, and stim effect duration.

Enlisted would have access to all other boosters that aren't designated CO or NCO.

Just a thought process I was pondering thought to share, hopefully I presented in a way that gives a chance for further theorizing on how this great game could have bigger squads to spread democracy further.

FOR SUPER EARTH!

[Mystic Referee]

5-6 people is a tough fill for a lot of online games unfortunately. The game currently doesn't really balance around player count. Maybe having 5-6 players would possibly be good for even higher difficulty? The more players in a match does present the obstacle of cooperation that gets harder as more players are added.

[SithLoveChild]

Originally posted by Mystic Referee:

5-6 people is a tough fill for a lot of online games unfortunately. The game currently doesn't really balance around player count. Maybe having 5-6 players would possibly be good for even higher difficulty? The more players in a match does present the obstacle of cooperation that gets harder as more players are added.

Certainly, and i think that is probably the weighted balance. I think a "Command" game mode that gives player groups that ability. but also you could run the CO/NCO with 2 enlisted or choose to run the match as a 4 man enlisted.

maybe 5/6 trigger more mission objectives?

[ELX-Sevazinho☄]

They could put some "research mode" something like retrieving artifacts or automatons things to develop new weapons, stratagems or armours. Instead of planet liberation we would have a global research progress.

[Chocbomb]

I'm in a similar boat, someone always gets left out with a 4/4.

But i worry that if the devs consider this they will further reach into the bag of "bullet-sponge" enemies.
Making the game less action and more "walking your elite" while you backup and shoot.
On-top-of i rarely have a mission where someone doesnt disconnect back to a 3/4.
-still no "rejoin" option either.

Idk, im bias, iv seen how poorly the galaxy is introduced to the player.
Its got 1 superstore with fake reviews.. while we have what 15-20 planets, which makes zero sense.
We can't even build up reputations on those planets and view other helldivers accomplishments.

The game can't even calculate the elite kills at the end of a mission, its all 1 "kills" total.

Am not sure how bad the networking is behind the scene for something as cool as a 6/6 squad.

[SithLoveChild]

Originally posted by Chocbomb:

I'm in a similar boat, someone always gets left out with a 4/4.

But i worry that if the devs consider this they will further reach into the bag of "bullet-sponge" enemies.
Making the game less action and more "walking your elite" while you backup and shoot.
On-top-of i rarely have a mission where someone doesnt disconnect back to a 3/4.
-still no "rejoin" option either.

Idk, im bias, iv seen how poorly the galaxy is introduced to the player.
Its got 1 superstore with fake reviews.. while we have what 15-20 planets, which makes zero sense.
We can't even build up reputations on those planets and view other helldivers accomplishments.

The game can't even calculate the elite kills at the end of a mission, its all 1 "kills" total.

Am not sure how bad the networking is behind the scene for something as cool as a 6/6 squad.

Game depth is certainly important. And yes stability is something we would all like to see addressed. I dont think the base game needs to be 6 player squads but giving larger player ground even a horde clone is maybe something that would be able to scratch the 5/6 friends looking to play together.

I absolutely do not want bullet sponges lol

[Wulfen]

Originally posted by SithLoveChild:

6 Helldiver Squads instead of 4

Balance and implementation be it a different game mode is way outside my payrate

This is one of the more difficult aspects of game design that people overlook. Developers would have to juggle the balance for 2 different versions of the game. Something not so easily done.

Buffing a weapon that is underperforming in 4 player lobbies might become incredibly overpowered when 6 players are using it instead of 4. When mechs and vehicles finally come into the game, how will that look? The game might become incredibly trivial if they don't have separate balances for either.

This basically doubles the amount of work load for the developers in charge of something like this.

I'm not trying to say it can't happen. But i think people need to understand that a wish like this isn't easy as editing the number 4 in the "max lobby size file" into a 6. Just food for thought

[SithLoveChild]

Originally posted by Wulfen:

Originally posted by SithLoveChild:

6 Helldiver Squads instead of 4

Balance and implementation be it a different game mode is way outside my payrate

This is one of the more difficult aspects of game design that people overlook. Developers would have to juggle the balance for 2 different versions of the game. Something not so easily done.

Buffing a weapon that is underperforming in 4 player lobbies might become incredibly overpowered when 6 players are using it instead of 4. When mechs and vehicles finally come into the game, how will that look? The game might become incredibly trivial if they don't have separate balances for either.

This basically doubles the amount of work load for the developers in charge of something like this.

I'm not trying to say it can't happen. But i think people need to understand that a wish like this isn't easy as editing the number 4 in the "max lobby size file" into a 6. Just food for thought

Oh no that's not what I mean or think. Just a pipe dream. there are plenty of other things to address and look at first but if DLC or something comes that adds significantly to the game down the line its something I'd love to see.

its a want not a need :)

[Vespertellino]

Devs were discussing a 6-8 ppl raids at some point, so it's entirely possible

[Eudicots]

The only thing that I would be worried about is the networking. I'm not sure if this would be currently feasible without spending several weeks/months testing.

[The Greg Machine]

I would absolutely love it. Half the time my group gets split up because most games are only 4 person coop.

[Wulfen]

Originally posted by SithLoveChild:

Originally posted by Wulfen:

This is one of the more difficult aspects of game design that people overlook. Developers would have to juggle the balance for 2 different versions of the game. Something not so easily done.

Buffing a weapon that is underperforming in 4 player lobbies might become incredibly overpowered when 6 players are using it instead of 4. When mechs and vehicles finally come into the game, how will that look? The game might become incredibly trivial if they don't have separate balances for either.

This basically doubles the amount of work load for the developers in charge of something like this.

I'm not trying to say it can't happen. But i think people need to understand that a wish like this isn't easy as editing the number 4 in the "max lobby size file" into a 6. Just food for thought

Oh no that's not what I mean or think. Just a pipe dream. there are plenty of other things to address and look at first but if DLC or something comes that adds significantly to the game down the line its something I'd love to see.

its a want not a need :)

I wasn't accusing you personally of thinking that. More so speaking about people generally. It's just something I see others discuss so nonchalantly in certain games

[Aldain]

I think you'd more likely see large scale missions with 2 separate sets of 4 in the same area than a dedicated 5/6 squad setup.

[SithLoveChild]

Originally posted by Wulfen:

Originally posted by SithLoveChild:

Oh no that's not what I mean or think. Just a pipe dream. there are plenty of other things to address and look at first but if DLC or something comes that adds significantly to the game down the line its something I'd love to see.

its a want not a need :)

I wasn't accusing you personally of thinking that. More so speaking about people generally. It's just something I see others discuss so nonchalantly in certain games

No worries didnt take it that way. You presented me something i didnt fully consider

[SithLoveChild]

Originally posted by Vespertellino:

Devs were discussing a 6-8 ppl raids at some point, so it's entirely possible

Oh! that is probably also a way to get the higher player count and add a fun dynamic to the game. Sure hope they continue down that thought path.

[Sea Base]

Originally posted by Wulfen:

Originally posted by SithLoveChild:

Oh no that's not what I mean or think. Just a pipe dream. there are plenty of other things to address and look at first but if DLC or something comes that adds significantly to the game down the line its something I'd love to see.

its a want not a need :)

I wasn't accusing you personally of thinking that. More so speaking about people generally. It's just something I see others discuss so nonchalantly in certain games

Except what you said isn't really true. Game design has it that the game is balanced by gradient across difficulty and individually by mission. It wouldn't be a problem to balance, in fact quite easy to do so.
The real issue is performance. Extra duplication between 2 new players to the host and engine performance of the extra enemies, effects and physics.