Grenade Launcher + EAT > Railgun (Bugs, not bots)

[Drax]

Very controversial opinion but I honestly much prefer this loadout over the railgun for bugs at least. The grenade launcher makes mince meat of smaller enemies + spewers, killing even the armoured spewers in 2 shots and helping out with many objectives like eggs and hives. While the EAT is essentially just a stronger railgun that shoots immediately. Killing bile titans in two well placed hits and destroying a charger leg in one shot. 2 EATs every sixty seconds is usually more than enough provided you have at least one other strategem for taking down titans like the 500kg, rail orbital, etc. And considering how quickly you get the EATs back, you can pretty reliably kill chargers just by dropping it on them.

I typically get most kills simply because the grenade launcher clears groups with ease, I can clear hives and egg objectives solo with it, and I find myself dropping bile titans more reliably than teammates using the railgun. More importantly though, I find the spewer spam to be even more annoying than the titans in helldive and so killing them in two shots from most ranges is pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ useful. And the EAT's allow for more mobile play as you can shoot ASAP instead of waiting to charge. Which is pretty useful in Helldive where lining up a shot is a luxury, let alone charging one.

I'm not saying the railgun is bad or anything, the ammo capacity makes them the most sustainable. But I honestly think the EAT is slept on considering how much damage it does and how quickly you can call it back.

[Nobody watches your TTV]

imaging taking two stratagems to try to compete with one

[Drax]

Originally posted by Nobody watches your TTV:

imaging taking two stratagems to try to compete with one

The grenade launcher doesn't compete with the railgun clown... The railgun never fulfilled an add clearing or objective clearing role like the grenade launcher. I'm saying the EAT alone competes with the railgun whilst allowing you to take another primary like the grenade launcher which is pretty underutilized in helldive where spewers are far more threatening than most enemies.

[Solvem Probler]

As long as you manage to NOT RAGDOLL YOUR TEAMMATES AROUND WITH THE GRENADES.

(90% of players do not manage.)

[Drax]

Originally posted by Born2Dive:

As long as you manage to NOT RAGDOLL YOUR TEAMMATES AROUND WITH THE GRENADES.

(90% of players do not manage.)

That's true. Probably players using it close range and causing grenades to bounce back off the bugs. Provided you make sure to fire at distanced targets and use something like impacts to kill anything getting too close, it shouldn't be an issue. But I play with my own 4 man typically so it's not like I'm being a menace to the playerbase anyway.

[Nobody watches your TTV]

Originally posted by Drax:

Originally posted by Nobody watches your TTV:

imaging taking two stratagems to try to compete with one

The grenade launcher doesn't compete with the railgun clown... The railgun never fulfilled an add clearing or objective clearing role like the grenade launcher. I'm saying the EAT alone competes with the railgun whilst allowing you to take another primary like the grenade launcher which is pretty underutilized in helldive where spewers are far more threatening than most enemies.

so you admit it doesn't even compete, pathetic

learn to carry grenades, maybe aim impacts correctly if you need that crutch

fyi grenade launcher isn't primary, it's support

against spewers/mortars railgun is far, far better as it can simply kill them across the map without any risk of potato aim bouncing grenade back at you noobs, or worse-your teammates

there are also map conditions such as 50% increased cooldown that make EAT very much worthless(nearly 2 minutes for 2 tubes; you might as well spam eagle 110s; and no, not everyone has time to land you at extraction to pre-place tubes)
100% increased call-in time also make it awkward if you can't land the pod on charger
the equip time of EAT also seems longer than recoilless, there's an animation to extend the tube iirc

grenade launcher is meta, for blitz...etc.; EAT is just dumb.

[Nihil]

You wasting one stratagem slot for nothing.
EAT and recloilless is freaking great. If you pick one you don't need grenade launcher. You can strip armor and shoot exposed parts.
But again a reminder, this is a team game. If you bring 2 special weapons, then they are best utilized if you call down one for your team mates who can bring other useful strategems instead.

[Nihil]

Originally posted by Drax:

Originally posted by Nobody watches your TTV:

imaging taking two stratagems to try to compete with one

The grenade launcher doesn't compete with the railgun clown... The railgun never fulfilled an add clearing or objective clearing role like the grenade launcher. I'm saying the EAT alone competes with the railgun whilst allowing you to take another primary like the grenade launcher which is pretty underutilized in helldive where spewers are far more threatening than most enemies.

Why should it compete with the railgun? These 2 weapons are for totally different scenarios.
You see that's the issue with bot you metahunter and metabunker guys. You are so fixated on trying to compare every weapon to every other weapon that you totally miss the point of tools having different use cases. That's why i find both camps actually pretty pathetic.

[Drax]

Originally posted by Nihil:

You wasting one stratagem slot for nothing.
EAT and recloilless is freaking great. If you pick one you don't need grenade launcher. You can strip armor and shoot exposed parts.
But again a reminder, this is a team game. If you bring 2 special weapons, then they are best utilized if you call down one for your team mates who can bring other useful strategems instead.

If you have EATs you're going to dispose it pretty much straight away. You call them in to deal with threats, then replace. Having EATs is basically just a much faster recalling titan killer than something like the railgun or 500kg even if they are easier to utilize. They shouldn't be treated like a support weapon which you only want one of as you won't be holding on to EATs.

The recoiless is much worse because it requires someone to load it, it's immobile, and it does less damage. It also needs to be held on to and so takes up a support slot and will need to be reloaded. While the EAT performs as an AT comparable (and imo superior) to the railgun, it is also expendable (it's in the name) and so allows for another support weapon that can deal with other roles.

[Drax]

Originally posted by Nihil:

Originally posted by Drax:

The grenade launcher doesn't compete with the railgun clown... The railgun never fulfilled an add clearing or objective clearing role like the grenade launcher. I'm saying the EAT alone competes with the railgun whilst allowing you to take another primary like the grenade launcher which is pretty underutilized in helldive where spewers are far more threatening than most enemies.

Why should it compete with the railgun? These 2 weapons are for totally different scenarios.
You see that's the issue with bot you metahunter and metabunker guys. You are so fixated on trying to compare every weapon to every other weapon that you totally miss the point of tools having different use cases. That's why i find both camps actually pretty pathetic.

I obviously do see the use case otherwise I wouldn't have made a point to combine the EATs (the throwaway AT that you don't hold on to) with the grenade launcher. The alternative support weapon that deals with different threats entirely. I was never saying they did the same thing.

[Nobody watches your TTV]

Originally posted by Drax:

Originally posted by Nihil:

You wasting one stratagem slot for nothing.
EAT and recloilless is freaking great. If you pick one you don't need grenade launcher. You can strip armor and shoot exposed parts.
But again a reminder, this is a team game. If you bring 2 special weapons, then they are best utilized if you call down one for your team mates who can bring other useful strategems instead.

If you have EATs you're going to dispose it pretty much straight away. You call them in to deal with threats, then replace. Having EATs is basically just a much faster recalling titan killer than something like the railgun or 500kg even if they are easier to utilize. They shouldn't be treated like a support weapon which you only want one of as you won't be holding on to EATs.

100% increased call-in time + 50% increased cooldown

LOL

sometimes this game is so buggy that the pod gets stuck underground so you get nothing

[Nihil]

Originally posted by Drax:

Originally posted by Nihil:

You wasting one stratagem slot for nothing.
EAT and recloilless is freaking great. If you pick one you don't need grenade launcher. You can strip armor and shoot exposed parts.
But again a reminder, this is a team game. If you bring 2 special weapons, then they are best utilized if you call down one for your team mates who can bring other useful strategems instead.

If you have EATs you're going to dispose it pretty much straight away. You call them in to deal with threats, then replace. Having EATs is basically just a much faster recalling titan killer than something like the railgun or 500kg even if they are easier to utilize.

You get 2 of them and that 1 min cooldown is more than awesome. I constantly have the entire map litered with them all around with launchers i didn't use. I even call them down and just drop them around when it is off cooldown and i'm not fighting so i have them laying around everywhere. Don't see the issue.

[Nobody watches your TTV]

Originally posted by Nihil:

Originally posted by Drax:

If you have EATs you're going to dispose it pretty much straight away. You call them in to deal with threats, then replace. Having EATs is basically just a much faster recalling titan killer than something like the railgun or 500kg even if they are easier to utilize.

You get 2 of them and that 1 min cooldown is more than awesome. I constantly have the entire map litered with them all around with launchers i didn't use. I even call them down and just drop them around when it is off cooldown and i'm not fighting so i have them laying around everywhere. Don't see the issue.

that's all great in theory and it is definitely what EAT is for: lower difficulty slot-fillers.

but higher difficulties often have those conditions like 100% increased call-in time + 50% increased cooldown

[Drax]

Originally posted by Nihil:

Originally posted by Drax:

If you have EATs you're going to dispose it pretty much straight away. You call them in to deal with threats, then replace. Having EATs is basically just a much faster recalling titan killer than something like the railgun or 500kg even if they are easier to utilize.

You get 2 of them and that 1 min cooldown is more than awesome. I constantly have the entire map litered with them all around with launchers i didn't use. I even call them down and just drop them around when it is off cooldown and i'm not fighting so i have them laying around everywhere. Don't see the issue.

I really don't understand what youre arguing with at this point. I'm saying you are able to have another support weapon with an EAT and that's perfectly acceptable. There's no reason to hold on to them with a short cooldown.

Originally posted by Nobody watches your TTV:

Originally posted by Nihil:

You get 2 of them and that 1 min cooldown is more than awesome. I constantly have the entire map litered with them all around with launchers i didn't use. I even call them down and just drop them around when it is off cooldown and i'm not fighting so i have them laying around everywhere. Don't see the issue.

that's all great in theory and it is definitely what EAT is for: lower difficulty slot-fillers.

but higher difficulties often have those conditions like 100% increased call-in time + 50% increased cooldown

100% increased call in time isn't a major problem. You can't be as mobile with them but that effect has other issues with add clearing and killing titans that the slight annoyance is preferred over complete ball ache.

As for the increased cooldowns, with the ship upgrades it's only 40% extra cooldown and while this definitely does suck and make the EAT far less versatile, it's just a single operation modifier that can either be avoided or adapted to. I find this a generally good modifier to avoid regardless because of how devastating its effects are as it forces a full team to be competent and rely on support weapons and make carrying more difficult as less strategems = less options and ways of dealing with threats.

[Chaos]

Try Using EAT in D8+, you will know why barely anyone consider it.
Hint: +50% Cooldown, +100 Calldown time -1 strats slot, bots's ECM

[Nobody watches your TTV]

Originally posted by Drax:

Originally posted by Nihil:

You get 2 of them and that 1 min cooldown is more than awesome. I constantly have the entire map litered with them all around with launchers i didn't use. I even call them down and just drop them around when it is off cooldown and i'm not fighting so i have them laying around everywhere. Don't see the issue.

I really don't understand what youre arguing with at this point. I'm saying you are able to have another support weapon with an EAT and that's perfectly acceptable. There's no reason to hold on to them with a short cooldown.

Originally posted by Nobody watches your TTV:

that's all great in theory and it is definitely what EAT is for: lower difficulty slot-fillers.

but higher difficulties often have those conditions like 100% increased call-in time + 50% increased cooldown

100% increased call in time isn't a major problem. You can't be as mobile with them but that effect has other issues with add clearing and killing titans that the slight annoyance is preferred over complete ball ache.

As for the increased cooldowns, with the ship upgrades it's only 40% extra cooldown and while this definitely does suck and make the EAT far less versatile, it's just a single operation modifier that can either be avoided or adapted to. I find this a generally good modifier to avoid regardless because of how devastating its effects are as it forces a full team to be competent and rely on support weapons and make carrying more difficult as less strategems = less options and ways of dealing with threats.

it's not an argument; you had no point.

You didn't understand the opportunity cost of using two slots for these two weapons.
For example you could have used a shieldpack or extra offensive stratagems, like 110mm(which, when upgraded, is usually 3 free charger kill, unless it misses)

Btw orbital laser and railcannon seemed to have 0 call in time either way.

Even if that's how cooldown time modifier stacks, you're ignoring the fact that just taking something else means people don't have to "adapt" to those.
50% cooldown isn't that big a deal when you use more eagles and orbital laser(you only get 3 uses anyway).

Also you must not be playing 8-9 difficulty, there is an advantage of EAT that you never mentioned.

Consider sudden encounter with charger; do you think taking your time setting up EAT is faster or just shooting twice with railgun then finish with shotgun is faster?