According to chuds, the games facism isn't just satirical.

[Pigeon]

I love this game, it has it's flaws, but it's really fun and I've convinced people who said it looked bad to play and they've enjoyed it too.

Anyway, is anyone else worried about the state of people? not in a "Back in my days" kind of way, just... is it just because of the amount of people we have access to now or do we think people are actually just getting crazier?

[Silverlight]

Originally posted by White Rider:

Except we do understand it. Starship Troopers the movie is a poor attempt at satire, and an even poorer attempt to depict fascism.

The Terran Federation is a liberal democracy.

What Verhoeven presents ends up as just a funny action movie with some suspect uniform choices.

It wasn't even a franchise before. It was a single book. The author wrote many others.

I read starship troopers and the cat who walks through walls when I was in elementary school.
I don't think modern politics and the ideas in those books lineup.

Meanwhile Hollywood gets one B action cult classic right and clings onto it with 2 bad sequels.
I haven't seen the newer Japanese CGI ones but I'm sure they are bangers so I'll leave them out of this, but the point is starship troopers didn't need a movie or sequels to be good.

Originally posted by Certified Fentanyl Dealer:

Originally posted by Silverlight:

It's funny . The creators you refer to are always secondary writers on a source material.

The starship troopers one is especially funny because it's an example of a classicaly bad Hollywood adaptation that misunderstood it's source material, and thought adding vague Nazi imagery somehow made it really subtle and clever satirical writing.

The bit people like about starship troopers, and by extension Helldivers, are Heinlein's creation- and his edge doesn't 100 allign with modern politics.

That's why you try to claim his work as your own joke.

Right, that's why in this game the people of Super Earth are totally not just throwing soldiers into impossible missions, even calling them expendable in basic training.

Or the super credits store has a reoccurring bit about allowing only 5-star reviews that don't tell you anything useful about the gear and anything else is "Under investigation for treason."

It's totally not a joke at all. Arrowhead are completely 100% serious and promoting this as something we in reality should strive for.

Oh it's absolutely a joke. But I'm not sure the Helldivers dev wrote the prompt or punchline on this one.

Even Warhammer 40k is just a twisted interpretation of the masterful Frank Herbert Novel God Emperor of Dune. Straight up masterpiece. Read it twice a year

[Certified Fentanyl Dealer]

Originally posted by Pigeon:

Originally posted by Zero:

was implied that the asteroid in the movie was sent by humans because the bugs didn't have the ability to launch an asteroid that far or fast.

and its implied that mormon extremsists may have instigated the war in the movie as well by landing a colony on a bug held planet.

Is this something one could know by just watching the movie or is the inability for bugs to perform these feats only something you could get by having read the books as well? I like a bit of a lore dive I'd just rather be able to understand the lore for what its supposed to be before I go watching the movie.

The book was written by a guy who actually thought full citizenship and the right to vote being restricted to only those who enlisted was a good idea.

The movie was by a man who grew up in a country that was inching towards that, and wanted to mock it.

There's lots of analysises of the movie out on the internet. If you don't want to watch it, you can just look it up. But it is a fun movie in part because of what it's doing. I recommend seeing it and then looking up some commentary on it.

[White Rider]

Originally posted by Pyronymer:

Originally posted by White Rider:

The Terran Federation is a liberal democracy.

Managed democracy not liberal democracy. Traitor.

And that isnt even subtext.

You have to wantonly ignore flat out text to make that mistake. Like a traitor.

Learn to read. This part of the conversation is referring to the Starship Troopers universe.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Pigeon:

Originally posted by Zero:

was implied that the asteroid in the movie was sent by humans because the bugs didn't have the ability to launch an asteroid that far or fast.

and its implied that mormon extremsists may have instigated the war in the movie as well by landing a colony on a bug held planet.

Is this something one could know by just watching the movie or is the inability for bugs to perform these feats only something you could get by having read the books as well? I like a bit of a lore dive I'd just rather be able to understand the lore for what its supposed to be before I go watching the movie.

they mention it in one of the movies. as well as the director clarifying it later on in an interview.

[TradeGy]

Originally posted by Pigeon:

Originally posted by Zero:

was implied that the asteroid in the movie was sent by humans because the bugs didn't have the ability to launch an asteroid that far or fast.

and its implied that mormon extremsists may have instigated the war in the movie as well by landing a colony on a bug held planet.

Is this something one could know by just watching the movie or is the inability for bugs to perform these feats only something you could get by having read the books as well? I like a bit of a lore dive I'd just rather be able to understand the lore for what its supposed to be before I go watching the movie.

The "asteroid was a false flag" thing is purely cope from people who don't actually understand what they are watching. And in the book the Bugs assault Earth with a spaceship because they're bugmen with technology instead of actual bugs.

In the movie Mormon "settlers" defy the Federation and settle on a bug planet where they summarily gets slaughtered and an asteroid then hits Buenos Aires sometime later. Now here is where people would claim "its impossible for the bugs to send an asteroid through space and accurately hit it" and yes in the real world thats correct, but Starship Troopers is not the real world its a world of FTL travel, of a bug species hivemind with such diversity of forms and abilities its insane they are still flesh and blood (Giant plasma spewing bugs for example? Yeah thats sooooo realistic) AND they are somehow capable of interstellar travel/FTL without using technology, so tell me why are the bugs unable to send an asteroid to Earth?

[White Rider]

Originally posted by Pyronymer:

Persoally i got that earth was pretty facist...

...Pure gold 10/10 have watched again.

Could you explain how the Terran Federation was fascist? Because it isn't. Objectively.

[Certified Fentanyl Dealer]

Originally posted by Pyronymer:

Originally posted by White Rider:

The Terran Federation is a liberal democracy.

Managed democracy not liberal democracy. Traitor.

And that isnt even subtext.

You have to wantonly ignore flat out text to make that mistake. Like a traitor.

Wantonly ignoring the glaringly obvious is one of the only things these types are capable of.

[Pyronymer]

In the movie earth was definitely not a liberal democracy. Service guarantees citizenship. There you go. Wantonly ignoring straight up text again.

[Narky]

Originally posted by White Rider:

Originally posted by Black Magic:

Because in order to appreciate Satire, you need to actually be smart enough to get it. Unfortunately they don't — it goes over their heads.


...


(quite similar to all the ignoramus's who go, "Um actually Paul Verhoeven's Starship Troopers was nothing like the boooook...").

Because they don't like the franchise they've taken to heart is, in-effect, mocking the thing they love so much.

Except we do understand it. Starship Troopers the movie is a poor attempt at satire, and an even poorer attempt to depict fascism.

The Terran Federation is a liberal democracy.

What Verhoeven presents ends up as just a funny action movie with some suspect uniform choices.

The first four chapters are literally just Militant garbage. So I'm sure more than half of everyone who keeps bringing up the book doesn't actually understand what it is or are just extrapolating sh*t that they just want to see—Heinlein himself was originally a democrat but eventually adopted hard right-wing views which ended up bleeding into his book.

Where the society of Starship Troopers tries to paint a Meritocracy, it gets grossly underminded by the extremist militant foundation. Heinlein's views were quite mixed; he mocked both right-wing and left-wing ideologies because ironically, the man was going through a rough divorce. The books theme shifts back and forth like a hectic match of pong; with recruits constantly being (severely) punished and then, all of a sudden, not punished for the deaths of two recruits.

Then there's how people who are deemed "weak" and "cowardly" have no right to run anything or vote, ever.

Given Verhoeven read the first two chapters and dropped the book - preferring to have it summarised for him (and given this is a man who experienced Nazi Occupation himself), it's very understandable why he couldn't care less for the book beyond what he did read.

The book was a mess, not even close to a masterpiece as some like-minded folk keep trying to throw accolades at it. There's a sh*t-ton of lazy writing and inconsistencies.

[Andi]

Originally posted by Pigeon:

it's genuinely amazing how people manage to just walk into a room and start screaming about something they don't like, while nobody in said room was talking about it or asking for it, we're talking about stupid people being unable to understand the concept of satire, not your internet crybaby ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about controlling if two grown adults are allowed to bang and still have rights after, seriously.

If you have gripes about trans, gay, lesbian, whatever, take it back to twitter, nobody asked.

yeah, let's pretend the word chud is not used to refer to a group of people you simply disagree with. it totally has nothing to do with politics or whatever.

[Certified Fentanyl Dealer]

Originally posted by White Rider:

Originally posted by Pyronymer:

Managed democracy not liberal democracy. Traitor.

And that isnt even subtext.

You have to wantonly ignore flat out text to make that mistake. Like a traitor.

Learn to read. This part of the conversation is referring to the Starship Troopers universe.

Guess what universe this game takes place in?

Report to your re-education camp immediately.

[TradeGy]

Originally posted by Pyronymer:

In the movie earth was definitely not a liberal democracy. Service guarantees citizenship. There you go. Wantonly ignoring straight up text again.

And neither was it ever fascist, the Terran Federation was the political system that Robert Heinlein thought up, correct.

[Silverlight]

Originally posted by TradeGy:

Originally posted by Pigeon:

Is this something one could know by just watching the movie or is the inability for bugs to perform these feats only something you could get by having read the books as well? I like a bit of a lore dive I'd just rather be able to understand the lore for what its supposed to be before I go watching the movie.

The "asteroid was a false flag" thing is purely cope from people who don't actually understand what they are watching. And in the book the Bugs assault Earth with a spaceship because they're bugmen with technology instead of actual bugs.

In the movie Mormon "settlers" defy the Federation and settle on a bug planet where they summarily gets slaughtered and an asteroid then hits Buenos Aires sometime later. Now here is where people would claim "its impossible for the bugs to send an asteroid through space and accurately hit it" and yes in the real world thats correct, but Starship Troopers is not the real world its a world of FTL travel, of a bug species hivemind with such diversity of forms and abilities its insane they are still flesh and blood (Giant plasma spewing bugs for example? Yeah thats sooooo realistic) AND they are somehow capable of interstellar travel/FTL without using technology, so tell me why are the bugs unable to send an asteroid to Earth?

It just people born after 9/11 who think that. It's hard not to associate modern political lenses on art.

people see a civilization that seems American and attribute the same characteristics to them. So the feelings about Starship Troopers will change every generation.

[e-dood]

Originally posted by Certified Fentanyl Dealer:

Originally posted by e-dood:

The hate of a book he didn't really read.

And so this changes the fact that this game is based on that movie why? Or makes it "childish" to point that out how?

You lot can't even remember their own arguments for more than 5 minutes.

It doesn't, but people are just saying that calling the movie "based on the book" is a bit of a stretch when the director didn't read the book.

The Jurassic Park movie had more in common with the original book than the SST movie does to it's source material. And, uh, that's saying a lot.

Then there is the argument that it isn't a very good satire of fascism due to the fact that Verhoven apparently doesn't know much about the ideology. This is more based on the various aspects that we see in the movie. Yes, the movies has the over the top propaganda (which isn't itself fascist as every ideology/nation uses/used) that comes across as basic Jingoism more than anything else. Outside of the military uniforms looking "nazi-ish", there isn't really anything unique to fascism in the Federation. There have already been a few other post that go into more details about that (That you conveniently ignored).

The main point people are making is that the movie is a pretty poor satire overall.

I love the movie, but damn does it miss that mark.

[Pyronymer]

Originally posted by TradeGy:

Originally posted by Pyronymer:

In the movie earth was definitely not a liberal democracy. Service guarantees citizenship. There you go. Wantonly ignoring straight up text again.

And neither was it ever fascist, the Terran Federation was the political system that Robert Heinlein thought up, correct.

No in the movie it was its own thing. Deliberately and blatantly more fascist. Because that was the entire primary theme of the movie. And if you actually missed that there isnt much movie left.