The Railgun+Shiledpack "Meta" is not as good as you think.

[BlemishedHaloTTV]

It is good if one on the team runs it. However this... "Meta" blows out the kneekaps of the team if everyone runs it. Agains heavier units like tanks and turrets you can't do much unless you get behind them. You can do it, but why risk it when a well placed rocket from a GR-8 Recoilless Rifle or a FAF-14 SPEAR Launcher can most likely one shot the heavies. I lost countless missions to this meta. Because the shield saves you from one rocket. You still die fast and the swarm enemies are gonna overwhelm you as well on helldive difficulty. I get that there is an orbital something for blowing up big things, but the OP ones are either 1 use, 3 or have a long cooldown. Reloading one rocket is way faster.

For example the jetpack has its uses. I've seen people on difficulty 8 running trough the map destroying facilities, artilleries ect. making our job to do the main mission way easier. Or how about the big shield dome? Saved my team a couple of times. Supply packs on helldive are great since the cooldown for resupply is quite long. So carrying exxtra ammo for your team is neat. OR how about stratagem weapons that are great for clearing up the swarm type enemies? Like machine guns or the arc thrower?

What I am trying to say is that there are builds which are just as viable as the Railgun Shieldpack combo. And my point is this: In a team based co-op PVE game everyone has a role, but it won't work if everyone wants to play the same role.

As for closure I say only this: if you cick me for not using the "meta" you do me a favour so I can find people who actually understand the game. But I don't think tis kind of toxicity is good for anyone, so lets find the middle ground.

EDIT: I think lot of people misunderstood me. I myself use the railgun because it is good just like the shield pack. What I was trying to say with this is that four of the same build is not very effective. And it is coming from a place of personal experience. I was kicked from multiple games for not using this build. What I wanted to say is that there are alternatives to minmax and balance out the roles in the teams.

[Forblaze]

Автор сообщения: !2B

The railgun cannot kill a titan with one shot, whether in safe or unsafe mode. The railgun has the longest time to kill of all weapons.

Yes it can. In safe mode, even.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWNW_fxB0Cg

[Redeyeflight]

Автор сообщения: BlemishedHalo

It is good if one on the team runs it. However this... "Meta" blows out the kneekaps of the team if everyone runs it. Agains heavier units like tanks and turrets you can't do much unless you get behind them. You can do it, but why risk it when a well placed rocket from a GR-8 Recoilless Rifle or a FAF-14 SPEAR Launcher can most likely one shot the heavies. I lost countless missions to this meta. Because the shield saves you from one rocket. You still die fast and the swarm enemies are gonna overwhelm you as well on helldive difficulty. I get that there is an orbital something for blowing up big things, but the OP ones are either 1 use, 3 or have a long cooldown. Reloading one rocket is way faster.

For example the jetpack has its uses. I've seen people on difficulty 8 running trough the map destroying facilities, artilleries ect. making our job to do the main mission way easier. Or how about the big shield dome? Saved my team a couple of times. Supply packs on helldive are great since the cooldown for resupply is quite long. So carrying exxtra ammo for your team is neat. OR how about stratagem weapons that are great for clearing up the swarm type enemies? Like machine guns or the arc thrower?

What I am trying to say is that there are builds which are just as viable as the Railgun Shieldpack combo. And my point is this: In a team based co-op PVE game everyone has a role, but it won't work if everyone wants to play the same role.

As for closure I say only this: if you cick me for not using the "meta" you do me a favour so I can find people who actually understand the game. But I don't think tis kind of toxicity is good for anyone, so lets find the middle ground.

Please record a video of you soloing a difficulty 7+ mission without the shield / railgun combo. I'd like to see how it's done.

[Khalani]

Автор сообщения: Forblaze

Yes it can. In safe mode, even.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWNW_fxB0Cg

And how many Titans won't die from one shot? My guess is, this video is something that won't happen very often.
Seems to be more like a bug than intended behaviour.

[resignator]

The problem isnt that the rail and shield are META. The problem is most other backpack/gun combos are lackluster. A grenade launcher should be shredding armor or have a side upgrade to do so. Same with anti-mat rifle. Spear lock on is busted. The marksman rifles are a joke at best. I like the submachine gun but run dry on ammo after 3 min. Like I said...lackluster. I will use the rail until I am given better options. Sorry not sorry.

[Aldain]

I think the primary reason why they're considered "meta" is because they're the most effective options that have the least (or no) chance of somebody winning a Darwin Award for lack of awareness.

Sure, some of the Air Strikes are strong for example, but how often have you had somebody literally stand in hyper tunnel vision only to explode and complain they died?

I think the perception of "meta" more has to do with that aspect, rather than actual effectiveness (though the Railgun solves a few too many problems on its own imo).

[Forblaze]

Автор сообщения: Khalani

And how many Titans won't die from one shot? My guess is, this video is something that won't happen very often.
Seems to be more like a bug than intended behaviour.

I'm able to get it fairly consistently. Like a third of my shots, probably. And even if you "miss", it's still going to stagger. Plus you're able to run the whole time (rather than taking a knee to reload), engage from longer distances, have a backpack, wider target selection, and have better ammo economy.

The recoilless rifle just isn't able to compete with the railgun.

[Kanjejou]

Other anti armored units guns (backpack) need something to compete with railgun...(and shield to an extend)

-Railgun is effectiv against all and reload 10 shot per ressupply, need not to crouch or go prone to aim straight

It's not a back pack weapon so it should be in the power level of other non backpack guns (special weapons) or balanced around that concept.
-Machine gun pierce medium armor but is a bit unwieldy require prone or crouching to really shine. resupply is only one mag...
-Stalwart only pierce light but get more ammo and is like a super AR ressuply is only one mag...
-Antimaterial rifle is harder to aim mediuma rmor pen but can be chained shot... also get a bit more ammo... not enough tho... 36shot that medium pen vs 20 death shots isnt very balanced... ressuply is 3 mag 18 shots...
-Flamethrower is short range(it should get a (30-35m range) doesnt kill anything fast enough(except yourself) and bring stupid amount of self harm and friendly fire...ressuply is 2canister.

-EAT give two shot every 70sec but barely hurt anythign above diff 6+, it can combo as an oppener that can be reloaded often... shooting if not perfectlyt still prone of crouching is bad... like super bad...


Now lets look at backpack guns (heavy weapons for me):
-Autocanon is decent but cannot fight the most armored ennemies its an anti medium armor +some splash damages. getting a servant is very nice but you can only use all the ROF you gain if Prone, so very situationnal (but very enjoyable).
one ressuplky is half a pack so 50 shot

-Recoiless is EAT but with more shots (6...so in cooldown the EAT is better over the 480sec of recovery). its decent but slow reload and need to prone/crouch make it harder to use then rail gun also only get one rocket per ressuply... if you have a reload buddy you can burn your 6 shots super fast and remove threats quite fast but it does live up to its unwieldingness, should be one shooting stuff more than railgun at the very least...
Only reload a single shot per ressupply. Been carrying a second recoiless back pack a few game to see and getting only 2 shot back per ressuply suck (one for me one for the user) as everyone only try to sip once.

-Spear, quirky and not powerfulll enought, solo reload is ass, assisted reload is good but you dont have enough ammo to make it matter... onyl good for a rapid early punch.
reload only 1 missile per ressupply.




SO to make it simpler railgun outperform any normal 3 slot weapons and even back pack guns...
because:
-its easier to use, more accurate doesnt require to be still+prone or crouching
-its more powerfull
-it recover more ammunitions per ammobox/ressuplies compared to its damage potential
-Unsafe mode is too easy to use too and push the gun even more into the Best gun in slot situation.

SO or you nerf railgun so its require more investement, like crouching proning staying still ectc...
-or reduce the ammo capacity
-reduce damages
-make it a backpack weapon (heavy weapon) , so it can eb strong but need a crew mate to shine really hard...

or you buff most guns to shine more in their niche, or get way way better ammo economy...

-recoiless rifle should not lose railgun vs armored targets in raw damage power.
-autocanon should not struggle against Medium and lower unit with lots of HP.
-spear should hit like mini nukes
all Heavy weapons need to recover more ammo when getting some ressuply/ammoboxes

-Flammer need to eradicate almost anything with how much risk it bring to you and the team and have more ammo
-machine gun need to destroy light and medium a bit faster and or shatter armor fast... really fast, Maybe make ressuply give 2 mag?
-stalwart is... good even if basic gun fill the same roll usually its very good at cleaning light units... except invisible bugs that seem to have 1million hp and tank anything except rail shot...maybe an extra mag and make ressuply give two?since it need a coruching reload make it beeffier
-AMR need more ammo (10shot mags), simple... barely getting double shot but being harder to use in every way is ass...also its only an anti medium armor gun. It does slap aumatons in weakspot thought...
Most Special weapons struggle in their niche vs 1 railgun shot. And are not ammo efficient at all. also none can kill heavy armor thus get outperformed at higher difficulty because of how many heavy are send in a wave/patrol.

[Bum Ghost]

EAT-17s need to hit harder. They wrecked tanks reliably in the first game, now they just make the tank go 'oh', turn around and flatten you.

Where are satchel packs? They were easily the most reliable but risky way of wrecking heavy units as well. Heavy bugs charging you? toss a pack, bait it over, boom.

The SPEAR seems like a lackluster replacement for the MLS Commando.

Honestly anti-armor weapons in HD2 are overall underwhelming, especially considering how they wrecked the upgrade system for firearms.

Oh also no Shredder missile, toxic goop, REP-80/ANGEL (team healing), directional shield, Sledge artillery >:( (mostly mad about no shredder, baby nuke go boom)

it seems like they shouldve delayed another year and just added the majority of the content from the first game

[Khalani]

Автор сообщения: Forblaze

I'm able to get it fairly consistently. Like a third of my shots, probably. And even if you "miss", it's still going to stagger. Plus you're able to run the whole time (rather than taking a knee to reload), engage from longer distances, have a backpack, wider target selection, and have better ammo economy.

The recoilless rifle just isn't able to compete with the railgun.

Really? Mhhhhm I have to test this myself I guess.
So far my only quick way to deal with titans was a well placed 500kg.

I still agree with others though, that you should have a good mix of support weapons on your team.
There should always be at least one railgun for sure, but 4 of them is just too much.

I think my best game so far was with 2 Railguns and 1 Arc Thrower.
Arc Thrower is usually able to deal with enemies before breaches happen and railguns to soften up the big targets.

[Nobody watches your TTV]

Автор сообщения: Khalani

Автор сообщения: Nobody watches your TTV

I usually only remember to kick when I see a full page of messagelog of one of you dying, and generally that's one of you using your trash loadouts.

I have to ask though, what exactly happens with that guy who has a lot of deaths in a row.
The context is important and I often see people who just abandon their teammates, leaving weapons and samples behind.

So when this dude gets revived he tries to fend off hordes of bots that were left alive, with only the primary weapon and nothing else.
This often leads to a deathloop for your teammate.

I always make sure that nobody is left behind.
As soon as someone dies, I look on the map where he died and either throw the reinforce to said spot or directly next to me. Then I try to push to the point where he died and make sure there is a gap so all lost items can be retrieved.

Doesn't always work of course but I saw it way too many times that people just ignored the weakest link and let him die over and over again.

They were bugs, I toss them away from enemy and they die again.

I had the super rares and I was kiting titans usually(when my 500kg...etc. are on cd), really not my responsibility to look after the mouthbreathers.

[Nobody watches your TTV]

Автор сообщения: Khalani

I think my best game so far was with 2 Railguns and 1 Arc Thrower.
Arc Thrower is usually able to deal with enemies before breaches happen and railguns to soften up the big targets.

Arc throwers in hands of typical players is like automatic 1-2 teamkills per game.

[Hexagoros]

Автор сообщения: Aldain

I think the primary reason why they're considered "meta" is because they're the most effective options that have the least (or no) chance of somebody winning a Darwin Award for lack of awareness.

Sure, some of the Air Strikes are strong for example, but how often have you had somebody literally stand in hyper tunnel vision only to explode and complain they died?

I think the perception of "meta" more has to do with that aspect, rather than actual effectiveness (though the Railgun solves a few too many problems on its own imo).

Thank you.

Just today I had someone run into an ONGOING orbital bombardment.

[ANCsemi]

Автор сообщения: Chaos

It's not that good yes, but it's main selling point is it very versatile and allow the user to act independently in case their teammate can't pull their weight, which is very important for pub.

Versatility is key. Is it the best? I don't know. Is it good? F*k yeah. Railgun + 500kg can handle literally every enemy in the game with ease. Shield is just a bonus.

It's my go-to solo kit, every time, unless I'm playing lower difficulty for fun because it can handle anything by itself.

You can make the argument all day that there may be better team builds and I'll agree with you. But you wanna say 'a full team running this kit won't work?'

I'll laugh in your face.

A team of halfway decent divers with RGs can kill a charger in less than five seconds. Titans? 500kg. EZ.

Don't need to worry about the hunters, spitters or fleas, because the shield can protect you plenty long enough to smack the big boys.

[[User Deleted]]

Автор сообщения: Forblaze

Автор сообщения: BlemishedHalo

Agains heavier units like tanks and turrets you can't do much unless you get behind them. You can do it, but why risk it when a well placed rocket from a GR-8 Recoilless Rifle or a FAF-14 SPEAR Launcher can most likely one shot the heavies.

You must be playing a different game than I am.

Railgun can't kill heavies from the front, but the recoilless rifle does?

Railgun can absolutely 1-shot headshot both Chargers and Bile Titans.

[Quill]

Автор сообщения: Kanjejou

Now lets look at backpack guns (heavy weapons for me):
-Autocanon is decent but cannot fight the most armored ennemies its an anti medium armor +some splash damages. getting a servant is very nice but you can only use all the ROF you gain if Prone, so very situationnal (but very enjoyable).
one ressuplky is half a pack so 50 shot

Autocannon can also take out Fabricators and Bug Nests from any range in a single shot if you are good with your aim and positioning

You can finish a Blitz mission Solo in like 4 minutes with an Autocannon lol

Also there's nothing more satisfying than taking down a Light Outpost from the Extraction zone