Helldivers vs ODSTs

[Blozzy]

Who got better training, weapons and combat experience? Ima leave out startagems cause that's just not fair

[Silverlight]

Publicado originalmente por SievertChaser:

Publicado originalmente por donut32:

youre wrong from the beginning, HDs dont get 5 minutes of training, they are SEAF troops that went to the HD program. HDs are also not standard infantry, those are the SEAF troops

your post is just wrong lol

To put it on more elaborate terms, the Helldivers are at least the marines and at most the ODST equivalent among SEAF. How much that amounts to depends on how seriously you take the satire - I'll agree with the other people in the thread, for rookies they've got great muscle memory for all the assorted guns.

The civilians you evacuate always seems especially happy a Helldiver unit arrived.
Like that meant things were finally going to turn around.

[Yhvh10]

Publicado originalmente por donut32:

Publicado originalmente por Yhvh10:

So for context I've never played Halo but I'm a huge nerd and my best friend is a huge nerd who LOVES Halo and we frequently... frequently talk about sci fi and are constantly doing comparisons between different gears and weapons.

ODST win training hands down. Helldivers are, even removing the satirical aspect, disposable troops. They arent elite forces. They are grunts. Basic frontline soldiers who get minimal training and thrown into the fray against humanities enemies. For the sake of fairness, we will say each Helldiver is trained in the equipment properly, well disciplined and knows what they are doing. Its still the basic fact that ODST are basically the equivalent of paratroopers(aka elite infantry) and Helldivers are standard combat infantry.

The main thing here is the stratagems. Gear I'm going to just assume is pretty similar from what I know of Halo. But the statagems make all the difference. Its the Helldivers saving grace. Being able to coordinate effectively with powerful orbital bombardments, call in specialized gear and equipment at a moments notice, deploy reinforcements and resupply crates exactly where they are needed and call in airstrikes with pinpoint accuracy is absolutely what sets the Helldivers apart from most sci fi forces.

The thing is, the Stratagems ARE what sets the Helldivers apart. Its an integral part of them equipment just like an assault rifle or a set of armor.

If you take away the stratagems your left with a sub-par space infantry that is wholly unsupported and will be absolutely crushed by any of the enemies the Helldivers encounter especially other groups. Helldivers simply cannot function by any effective means without stratagems.

So in conclusion...

Without stratagems the Helldivers dont stand a chance. However I feel like thats unfair as stratagems are quite literally what gives the Helldivers their edge.

With stratagems Helldivers become massively OP and are able to face down any ground-based army with great confidence as long as they maintain orbital superiority.

youre wrong from the beginning, HDs dont get 5 minutes of training, they are SEAF troops that went to the HD program. HDs are also not standard infantry, those are the SEAF troops

your post is just wrong lol

???

Most of my post covered stratagems and what set the helldivers apart. Not their training.

As for the HD, yeah and? They are shock troops and 'elite'. But its always the disposable 'elite'. And whenever they are called 'elite' its usually in a tongue in cheek way. Half because of the satirical aspect, and half because they are the equivalent of the marines.

[Catteus Of Mars]

thought lorewise helldivers enlist at 16 and get 2 years of training with casualty rate of 80% so id think they take the training part.

[Anticitizen 1]

Publicado originalmente por Yhvh10:

So for context I've never played Halo but I'm a huge nerd and my best friend is a huge nerd who LOVES Halo and we frequently... frequently talk about sci fi and are constantly doing comparisons between different gears and weapons.

ODST win training hands down. Helldivers are, even removing the satirical aspect, disposable troops. They arent elite forces. They are grunts. Basic frontline soldiers who get minimal training and thrown into the fray against humanities enemies. For the sake of fairness, we will say each Helldiver is trained in the equipment properly, well disciplined and knows what they are doing. Its still the basic fact that ODST are basically the equivalent of paratroopers(aka elite infantry) and Helldivers are standard combat infantry.

The main thing here is the stratagems. Gear I'm going to just assume is pretty similar from what I know of Halo. But the statagems make all the difference. Its the Helldivers saving grace. Being able to coordinate effectively with powerful orbital bombardments, call in specialized gear and equipment at a moments notice, deploy reinforcements and resupply crates exactly where they are needed and call in airstrikes with pinpoint accuracy is absolutely what sets the Helldivers apart from most sci fi forces.

The thing is, the Stratagems ARE what sets the Helldivers apart. Its an integral part of them equipment just like an assault rifle or a set of armor.

If you take away the stratagems your left with a sub-par space infantry that is wholly unsupported and will be absolutely crushed by any of the enemies the Helldivers encounter especially other groups. Helldivers simply cannot function by any effective means without stratagems.

So in conclusion...

Without stratagems the Helldivers dont stand a chance. However I feel like thats unfair as stratagems are quite literally what gives the Helldivers their edge.

With stratagems Helldivers become massively OP and are able to face down any ground-based army with great confidence as long as they maintain orbital superiority.

Helldivers can't maintain orbital superiority against either the Covenant or the UNSC.

[Realm]

Publicado originalmente por SievertChaser:

ODSTs aren't in a satirical setting

weren't*

[Salty Slothy]

Publicado originalmente por Operator:

Uhhhh... noooo the UNSC frigate beats the SD. FENRIS Nuclear weapons, + a burst fire long range MAC cannon.
you have to remember, the MAC cannon was made to out range the Covenant ships because that is the only way they could beat them.

the SD would be popped before it ever got in range of the frigate.

Paris doesn't have the burst fire MAC cannon. SD also has nuclear weapons on it in the form of the Shredder. Hellbombs are definitely some form of nuke and they obviously have a railgun.

[Anticitizen 1]

Publicado originalmente por Salty Slothy:

Publicado originalmente por Operator:

Uhhhh... noooo the UNSC frigate beats the SD. FENRIS Nuclear weapons, + a burst fire long range MAC cannon.
you have to remember, the MAC cannon was made to out range the Covenant ships because that is the only way they could beat them.

the SD would be popped before it ever got in range of the frigate.

Paris doesn't have the burst fire MAC cannon. SD also has nuclear weapons on it in the form of the Shredder. Hellbombs are definitely some form of nuke and they obviously have a railgun.

Hellbombs aren't nukes, the game has actually has nukes, the ICBMs you launch. Compare that explosion to the tiny fart Hellbomb makes. The railgun on SS is pathetic, it can't even one shot the bio titan. MAC cannons core spaceships with heavy armor.

[Yhvh10]

Publicado originalmente por Anticitizen 1:

Publicado originalmente por Yhvh10:

So for context I've never played Halo but I'm a huge nerd and my best friend is a huge nerd who LOVES Halo and we frequently... frequently talk about sci fi and are constantly doing comparisons between different gears and weapons.

ODST win training hands down. Helldivers are, even removing the satirical aspect, disposable troops. They arent elite forces. They are grunts. Basic frontline soldiers who get minimal training and thrown into the fray against humanities enemies. For the sake of fairness, we will say each Helldiver is trained in the equipment properly, well disciplined and knows what they are doing. Its still the basic fact that ODST are basically the equivalent of paratroopers(aka elite infantry) and Helldivers are standard combat infantry.

The main thing here is the stratagems. Gear I'm going to just assume is pretty similar from what I know of Halo. But the statagems make all the difference. Its the Helldivers saving grace. Being able to coordinate effectively with powerful orbital bombardments, call in specialized gear and equipment at a moments notice, deploy reinforcements and resupply crates exactly where they are needed and call in airstrikes with pinpoint accuracy is absolutely what sets the Helldivers apart from most sci fi forces.

The thing is, the Stratagems ARE what sets the Helldivers apart. Its an integral part of them equipment just like an assault rifle or a set of armor.

If you take away the stratagems your left with a sub-par space infantry that is wholly unsupported and will be absolutely crushed by any of the enemies the Helldivers encounter especially other groups. Helldivers simply cannot function by any effective means without stratagems.

So in conclusion...

Without stratagems the Helldivers dont stand a chance. However I feel like thats unfair as stratagems are quite literally what gives the Helldivers their edge.

With stratagems Helldivers become massively OP and are able to face down any ground-based army with great confidence as long as they maintain orbital superiority.

Helldivers can't maintain orbital superiority against either the Covenant or the UNSC.

In the case of failure to maintain orbital superiority, then the edge the Helldivers has is nullified.

My main point was less so whether or not the Helldivers are well trained or not, simply that the Helldivers work in tandem with the Super Destroyers. If you remove access to Stratagems like what OP said, then the Helldivers go from being a genuinely effective fighting force to being a bog standard sci fi marine corp.

[Yhvh10]

Its a bit like saying "Whats better, mechanized infantry or spec ops, but the mechanized infantry dont have any mechanized support" if that makes more sense

[Anticitizen 1]

Publicado originalmente por Yhvh10:

Its a bit like saying "Whats better, mechanized infantry or spec ops, but the mechanized infantry dont have any mechanized support" if that makes more sense

The real answer is Mobile Infantry haha. But not the MI from the movie but from the original book.

[Le Hatch]

ODST's have better training.

Helldivers have better weapons (by far I'd add), also a potentially strong contender for better armor considering the basic plate is cited to involve what is literally ship armor plating (Though this could be Super Earth propaganda, but could also potentially make them immune to conventional ballistics from an ODST)

Combat Experience is a bit of a toss up cause while ODST's genuinely have a longer life expectancy, Helldivers are pretty much programmed and indoctrinated to be borderline sociopathic killing machines, and the >program< as a whole has seen them through countless wars, even if the individual Helldiver might only see a battle or two. Ultimately I feel like neither would have an issues being able to attempt to quickly dispatch their counterpart if an actual fight happened.

[DesuVults]

Publicado originalmente por Mander:

Publicado originalmente por Calv:

Think you might be mistaking quantity for quality there, and slightly overlooking the differences in the enemies being fought.

ODST is facing a technologically superior enemy, Helldivers are not.

Automatons son? Have you ever fought them?

automatons + Illuminate = Forerunners

[Yhvh10]

Publicado originalmente por Anticitizen 1:

Publicado originalmente por Yhvh10:

Its a bit like saying "Whats better, mechanized infantry or spec ops, but the mechanized infantry dont have any mechanized support" if that makes more sense

The real answer is Mobile Infantry haha. But not the MI from the movie but from the original book.

I really need to read Starship Troopers. I've heard great things about it but first I need to finish Dune lolol

Publicado originalmente por Le Hatch:

Helldivers have better weapons (by far I'd add), also a potentially strong contender for better armor considering the basic plate is cited to involve what is literally ship armor plating (Though this could be Super Earth propaganda, but could also potentially make them immune to conventional ballistics from an ODST

id say this...

Publicado originalmente por Le Hatch:

(Though this could be Super Earth propaganda

... this is what makes half of it so much harder to gauge. Because so much of what you hear and read is super earth propaganda to the point of it being satirical... (satirical game lol)

I'd say that the chances of it being what is effectively bulletproof is propaganda though. Mainly because just how little damage a Helldiver can take. Heavy armor which covers you head to toe, if it was truly starship armor I feel would make you nearly immune to terminids using claws and teeth, and the basic blasters the autamatons use.

[DesuVults]

one aspect I think people are ignoring is that helldivers get that enemy radar thing. I know in halo there is something similar but I dont know if ODST get it since the times I know its on halo you are playing as a spartan.

[The Rach]

Anyone in here commenting that helldivers only have "5 mins of training" don't know much about the helldivers universe.

Helldivers have a whole school they go too which used to be called "ranger school" before they were branded as helldivers they were called rangers.

They're drawn from the SEAF's best of the best then given even more training.

All the stunts we can pull off, diving, running for long periods in heavy armour and having stable aim, proficiency with every weapon we can unlock. None of these lend credence to the idea that helldivers are meat-grinder canon fodder.

Four helldivers can wipe out hundreds of bots/bugs and make it out alive.

The satire aside ODST and Helldivers function the same. When one of the earth planets seceded 50 helldivers were dropped into the council chambers and they cleared it effortlessly.

Helldivers just have more ordnance and better tech than the ODST. They also are likely superior in numbers as well.

I'd give it to the helldivers.