Primary Weapons overall are fine.

[C4NNED]

There are complaints about primary weapons being too weak.
This is partially by design because Hell Divers is a COOP horde shooter. But also inspired by the movies and even basic military knowledge and doctrines. It wants you to stay close to your allies. Cover your team mates. Coordinate your fire. When your stratagems are exhausted and the team is falling apart it isn't because the primarys suck its because you guys are not playing as a team concentrating your fire and efficiently utilizing your primaries.

This is not to say some primaries need buffs. Just speaking about the overall implementation and the role that primaries have in this game.

[Anzaman]

Originally posted by Hand's Hermit Permit:

Slugger is amazing for bots.

This - if you miss the weakpoint, Slugger has so much stagger force that you basically stunlock the enemy to death.

Heavy or Rocket Devastators can't shoot you, if they are in stuck in stagger loop. Otherwise Slugger basically one hit kills most Automaton units when hit to weak point. Can even shoot Scout Striders vehicles down, if you for some reason can't get behind them.

[Nobody watches your TTV]

Originally posted by Chaos:

Originally posted by Nobody watches your TTV:

But at least it's functional unlike the prebuff piss poor breaker s/p or the current laser rifle.

I suspect the situation will improve with illuminates added.

Yeah, I certainly hope so.
Maybe I will get a new good toy from the new warbond or maybe not.
Tho I guess I should be happy the base Lib at least can work in D9, unlike old breaker s/p.

I doubt new bp will feature anything better than scorcher.

But basic AR being inefficient/ineffective against bugs really does maximizes the starshiptrooper-ness(the movie, the only movie).

[Razer, Dat Bragon]

Originally posted by Kan3da.:

Originally posted by Myth Alric:

You can pretty much kill any of the enemies except for like the bile titan, using only primary weapons and grenades.

You can eat a soup with a fork, knife or pretty much any piece of tableware.

You might as well eat the bowl with the soup while your at it.

[¤ OpN ¤]

Originally posted by Parco:

Originally posted by Chaos:

Yes, because you are meant to "uSe thE sTRatAgeM" and your primary are "oNlY pRimaRy iN a seNse tHat yOu SpAWn wItH onE"

this is what happens when you use your stratagems properly and efficiently
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK1YfBe30nc

And what do you do when they are disabled at the end of a mission and you have 4 BT and 6 chargers..... Give me a break.

[Nobody watches your TTV]

Originally posted by ¤ OpN ¤:

Originally posted by Parco:

this is what happens when you use your stratagems properly and efficiently
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK1YfBe30nc

And what do you do when they are disabled at the end of a mission and you have 4 BT and 6 chargers..... Give me a break.

Uh, extract earlier?

[Pandora's Actor]

Originally posted by C4NNED:

There are complaints about primary weapons being too weak.
This is partially by design because Hell Divers is a COOP horde shooter. But also inspired by the movies and even basic military knowledge and doctrines. It wants you to stay close to your allies. Cover your team mates. Coordinate your fire. When your stratagems are exhausted and the team is falling apart it isn't because the primarys suck its because you guys are not playing as a team concentrating your fire and efficiently utilizing your primaries.

This is not to say some primaries need buffs. Just speaking about the overall implementation and the role that primaries have in this game.

uh no they are weak. anyone with a brain would see this. and does see this. almost every weapon besides the damm shotguns need a buff in some form.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by Draescan:

I'd like to say that there's a large variety in the amount of viable primaries in the game with the current balance, but that's just not true.

The Liberator Concussive and Penetrator are both genuinely just useless. The fire rate and damage output on the Concussive is so low that it's useless any time there's a horde, but the stun effect it provides is without a doubt a useless effect vs just blowing the thing's head off.

The Penetrator suffers from an issue that seems similar but is arguably different from any of the other weapons in the current sandbox. It has good pen, but the damage output is so heavily reduced that it becomes inefficient almost immediately once you begin playing on hard difficulty and up. It can damage enemies that have higher armor tiers, yes, but the problem is that it doesn't KILL them, so it's no different than harsh language. The time to kill on the regular liberator is almost the same on medium armor targets as the Penetrator. This means it serves no purpose and fails the niche it's trying to fill, but only insofar as it get halfway to the finish line and trips into a faceplant. In other words, it pens yes, but you'll require the entire mag to do it.

The incendiary breaker is a good example of a weapon that SEEMS okay on the surface but actually has no purpose at all in the sandbox. The burn effect is too slow to deal out the damage and results in bugs getting hits in if you wait for the burn to kill ( if it even does which seldom but often enough it won't ) this, once again, is just a direct downgrade to killing the damn things immediately.

The flamethrower while doing much better damage now I would argue is still borderline unusable for what they seem to want it to do. Little suggestion on the off chance they read these horrible forums anymore...

Make the flamethrower have a BIT more range, like 20%, and remove a tier of armor from whatever it hits, that will have MASSIVE effects on the sandbox I'm well aware. However, I'd like to argue this could open up the weapon options for people, as the flamethrower now plays a support role, while still dishing out a very punishing effect on the enemies. A direct gout of fire probably should also be able to " push " anything smaller than a warrior back as well if it hits directly and is within 5 meters just so they can have some way to keep things back. As of now the flamethrower isn't worth the risk with the bugs being able to so easily jump slap your head hitbox.

I could go on but these issues are all down the line with MOST of the niche weapon options in the game.

lol

The incendiary breaker is as viable as every other shotgun, against bugs anyway.

Speaking of incendiary, the Flamethrower isn't just viable, it's the absolute best weapon against bugs across every weapon type in the game right now, and it's not even close to anything else.

[Laho]

The problem with primary weapons is lack of armor-cracking ability.
The Medium Armor Break weapons absolutely should break Charger legs, Automaton weapons / limbs, strider shields.
Because this opens up non-armor breaking Stratagems to be picked. Imagine using the JAR5 to break armor, switching to the MG or Stalwart to kill.
Currently the main weapons are all just for clearing weenies. They don't do anything else. So why pick the weeny clearing Stratagems and leave yourself completely useless against armor?

[asura]

Originally posted by Laho:

The problem with primary weapons is lack of armor-cracking ability.
The Medium Armor Break weapons absolutely should break Charger legs, Automaton weapons / limbs, strider shields.
Because this opens up non-armor breaking Stratagems to be picked. Imagine using the JAR5 to break armor, switching to the MG or Stalwart to kill.
Currently the main weapons are all just for clearing weenies. They don't do anything else. So why pick the weeny clearing Stratagems and leave yourself completely useless against armor?

Sorry but this makes no sense. You're supposed to be using antitank against tanks (you can also overheat them but that's a whole other thing). If you crack a charger leg with an EAT you can kill the thing with the machine pistol secondary.....

The striders I'm really confused on you having mentioned. You literally run behind them and shoot them. Grenades work, anything explosive works, etc if you want to fight them head on.

[Laho]

Originally posted by asura:

Sorry but this makes no sense. You're supposed to be using antitank against tanks (you can also overheat them but that's a whole other thing). If you crack a charger leg with an EAT you can kill the thing with the machine pistol secondary.....

The striders I'm really confused on you having mentioned. You literally run behind them and shoot them. Grenades work, anything explosive works, etc if you want to fight them head on.

So you admit that all the non anti-armor stratagems have no reason to exist?
See I think it would be way more fun if the EAT / Recoiless could be used to body shoot big stuff. Spear for the long range "snipe" of heavies. AM rifle and railgun for headshots. These stratagems should be for different / easier ways to deal with armor.
But you can ALSO have some main weapons that are good for cracking armor, mediocre for "flesh" that you combine with guns like the Flamethrower, MG and Stalwart. The goal is to have various possible builds, and not just a go-to META.

[Nobody watches your TTV]

Originally posted by Laho:

Originally posted by asura:

Sorry but this makes no sense. You're supposed to be using antitank against tanks (you can also overheat them but that's a whole other thing). If you crack a charger leg with an EAT you can kill the thing with the machine pistol secondary.....

The striders I'm really confused on you having mentioned. You literally run behind them and shoot them. Grenades work, anything explosive works, etc if you want to fight them head on.

So you admit that all the non anti-armor stratagems have no reason to exist?
See I think it would be way more fun if the EAT / Recoiless could be used to body shoot big stuff. Spear for the long range "snipe" of heavies. AM rifle and railgun for headshots. These stratagems should be for different / easier ways to deal with armor.
But you can ALSO have some main weapons that are good for cracking armor, mediocre for "flesh" that you combine with guns like the Flamethrower, MG and Stalwart. The goal is to have various possible builds, and not just a go-to META.

110mm can crack armor from above

afterwards the less-antiarmor stratagem can do damage to armored enemies

not ideal but it can work

[asura]

Originally posted by Laho:

So you admit that all the non anti-armor stratagems have no reason to exist?

I (and you) have no idea what you're saying.
You can definitely take out these enemies using just grenades and, as mentioned, the striders have a rider. Kill the rider. You can do that with a secondary pistol - it's not anti-tank and definitely isn't meta.

You can kill a single charger with just a stalwart if you really want. Use the scyth on the back of a hulk. These options are there and work and are certainly non-meta.

[Laho]

Originally posted by asura:

Originally posted by Laho:

So you admit that all the non anti-armor stratagems have no reason to exist?

I (and you) have no idea what you're saying.
You can definitely take out these enemies using just grenades and, as mentioned, the striders have a rider. Kill the rider. You can do that with a secondary pistol - it's not anti-tank and definitely isn't meta.

You can kill a single charger with just a stalwart if you really want. Use the scyth on the back of a hulk. These options are there and work and are certainly non-meta.

We both know taking half an hour to kill something isn't what I was talking about.
I know you can shoot striders from the back everyone knows this. It's not a secret. You can also one shot them through the front with an Auto Cannon or even Laser Cannon.

I'm saying something like the JAR or Slugger should also be able to do this. Not in one shot, but a few. I'm saying we need better armor-cracking on main weapons because it opens up a lot more builds to be viable. Don't we all want more build variety?

I want to have multiple options I can pick to crack armor when I make a build, not just a few go-tos.

[asura]

Originally posted by Laho:

I'm saying something like the JAR or Slugger should also be able to do this. Not in one shot, but a few.

I'm actually becoming a huge fan of the sluggy. But again you can just use this to kill the Strider rider. Their heads stick over the shield so it's kind of same-same as others.

I am honestly completely exhausted with shotguns in this game (excluding slugger). Spam them into any Strider and you'll accidentally hit the head of the rider peeking over the top. They need to fix these.

I also wish the Liberator Penetrator was useful in any way. Right now the only use is spamming it at Devastators.

[Draescan]

Originally posted by VoiD:

Originally posted by Draescan:

I'd like to say that there's a large variety in the amount of viable primaries in the game with the current balance, but that's just not true.

The Liberator Concussive and Penetrator are both genuinely just useless. The fire rate and damage output on the Concussive is so low that it's useless any time there's a horde, but the stun effect it provides is without a doubt a useless effect vs just blowing the thing's head off.

The Penetrator suffers from an issue that seems similar but is arguably different from any of the other weapons in the current sandbox. It has good pen, but the damage output is so heavily reduced that it becomes inefficient almost immediately once you begin playing on hard difficulty and up. It can damage enemies that have higher armor tiers, yes, but the problem is that it doesn't KILL them, so it's no different than harsh language. The time to kill on the regular liberator is almost the same on medium armor targets as the Penetrator. This means it serves no purpose and fails the niche it's trying to fill, but only insofar as it get halfway to the finish line and trips into a faceplant. In other words, it pens yes, but you'll require the entire mag to do it.

The incendiary breaker is a good example of a weapon that SEEMS okay on the surface but actually has no purpose at all in the sandbox. The burn effect is too slow to deal out the damage and results in bugs getting hits in if you wait for the burn to kill ( if it even does which seldom but often enough it won't ) this, once again, is just a direct downgrade to killing the damn things immediately.

The flamethrower while doing much better damage now I would argue is still borderline unusable for what they seem to want it to do. Little suggestion on the off chance they read these horrible forums anymore...

Make the flamethrower have a BIT more range, like 20%, and remove a tier of armor from whatever it hits, that will have MASSIVE effects on the sandbox I'm well aware. However, I'd like to argue this could open up the weapon options for people, as the flamethrower now plays a support role, while still dishing out a very punishing effect on the enemies. A direct gout of fire probably should also be able to " push " anything smaller than a warrior back as well if it hits directly and is within 5 meters just so they can have some way to keep things back. As of now the flamethrower isn't worth the risk with the bugs being able to so easily jump slap your head hitbox.

I could go on but these issues are all down the line with MOST of the niche weapon options in the game.

lol

The incendiary breaker is as viable as every other shotgun, against bugs anyway.

Speaking of incendiary, the Flamethrower isn't just viable, it's the absolute best weapon against bugs across every weapon type in the game right now, and it's not even close to anything else.

Kills most things slower than the base strategem MG at a horrible range, putting you in far greater danger with not only a higher risk to yourself but also to your teammates for the ground fire. It's bad. You can do well with it, but it's bad. Don't start your post off with " lol " makes you look like a tit.