If I can't see bots through heavy fog, how can they see me to shoot at me?

[Kharn the Bloody]

I'm all for a challenge but FFS come on guys and gals. Enough with the wall hacks for bots. They see through fog, high grass, ect. I can't even see them to shoot back. Shooting at their tracer origin just burns though ammo.

If the Bots are going to have Thermals then players should have access to Thermals. It's total A double S that fog doesn't reduce vis for bots like it does player. In addition it seems that fog has ZERO effect on bugs and Bots ability to spot the player?

Come on guys. It's bad enough that the bots 3 miles away are popping flares when I drop a lone bot that's out by itself away from any other bots. Now the bots start shooting at me from 3 miles away in the fog. Just give us a fighting chance is all I'm asking for.

[Anzaman]

It's same with any sort of vision blocker between you and the enemy. Dense jungle? Well, hope you like that pin-point missile coming your way.

Even concrete wall isn't enough, since once they have engaged into combat with you, they will know your exact location. Was interesting to watch Missile Devastator rotate in place, following my teammate and pre-fire barrage of missiles to the corner he was about to appear from.

[Kharn the Bloody]

Originally posted by Anzaman:

It's same with any sort of vision blocker between you and the enemy. Dense jungle? Well, hope you like that pin-point missile coming your way.

Even concrete wall isn't enough, since once they have engaged into combat with you, they will know your exact location. Was interesting to watch Missile Devastator rotate in place, following my teammate and pre-fire barrage of missiles to the corner he was about to appear from.

Well cheating enemies that have wall hacks aren't fun. To me that's not "challenging". That's just cheating like a MF'er.

Why bother breaking line of sight, using cover, going prone, and/or stealth armor if bugs and bots just magically know your exact location at all times? I mean the whole crouching and prone are built in mechanics that are supposed to cut down your ability to be spotted. And so is stealth armor. But why have these mechanics if you're just magically spotted through terrain, through fog, and through buildings?

Again, just give us a fighting chance. I cannot shoot that I cannot see. But they can shoot at me?

[Bubz]

You've never seen The Terminator have you

[FAIR]

Because they have thermal vision.

[Kharn the Bloody]

Originally posted by Bubz:

You've never seen The Terminator have you

Yes great. Now where our MY thermal optics?

[Kharn the Bloody]

Originally posted by FAIR:

Because they have thermal vision.

Okay great. Where are our options for Thermal optics for our weapons?

[Creedmoor]

Joel is guiding their aim

[Yung Venuz]

It's a complex issue tbh. Making each piece of foliage block LOS might make them too ineffective. Fog lowering their accuracy would be an operation-wide debuff sometimes too (this may be fine.) Giving the player heat vision is a bit patronizing imo, I don't want my hand held. There's an opportunity for trade-offs and interesting decisions though if it's part of a system, like how they originally had different helmet perks. But then that takes away from your cosmetic choices. Enemies will also keep shooting where you were, even if they don't currently see you. That's probably gotten you tagged more than a few times. Either way, I don't see an obvious solution to this that doesn't have drawbacks which need to be seriously considered.

[Kharn the Bloody]

I might add. There's no additional rewards for taking missions with heavy fog, or any of the other negative factors. Why not just swap to a planet that doesn't have the fog currently?

Again, I'm down with extreme difficulty. Just make it fair and make the rewards worth the risks. If there's fog, that should automatically up the rewards.

[Yung Venuz]

Negative factors appear after a certain difficulty and your difficulty choice multiplies the base reward. That's your incentive, you get more EXP, more Requisition Slips, more Sample opportunities. You can only get Super Samples on 7 and up. If it's not fog it's a stratagem scrambler or call-in time debuff. There's a bunch of 'em.

[Kharn the Bloody]

Originally posted by Yung Venuz:

Negative factors appear after a certain difficulty and your difficulty choice multiplies the base reward. That's your incentive, you get more EXP, more Requisition Slips, more Sample opportunities. You can only get Super Samples on 7 and up.

Correct. But I can take a lvl 7+ mish on a planet that doesn't have fog and still get same rewards.

I'm not suggesting cherry picking. I'm suggesting that Fog and other factors should increase rewards even further.

[protoka]

I love sneaking past a patrol only for one member of the patrol to hit a perfect 173 degree turn to check out whats behind that 1 rock 70 meters away and LO AND BEHOLD, THERE I AM. WHAT DIVINE PROVIDENCE. Bug breach/bot drop time. They are just so good at finding me gat dayum.
Why are they psychic though.
And if I do somehow reposition in time I will get a patrol spawn ON TOP OF MY ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ FACE. And if I somehow manage to kill that patrol fast enough to stop a bot drop a bot 500 meters away that doesn't even know who I am is going to call in a bot drop "on instinct".
The game is in a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ state right now but try hards probably finally have a boner.

[Yung Venuz]

Correct. I edited the original post but I guess you replied to it first. No worries either way. My point is that those difficulties always come with drawbacks. It's not always fog. I'd rather take fog than the scrambler, personally. Far less irritating.

[John Digger]

It weird when they can't see you through smoke but the fog is fine

[Kharn the Bloody]

Originally posted by Yung Venuz:

Correct. I edited the original post but I guess you replied to it first. No worries either way. My point is that those difficulties always come with drawbacks. It's not always fog. I'd rather take fog than the scrambler, personally. Far less irritating.

Fair enough. I suppose I'd rather have fog than 1 less stratagem. Still though, the wall hacks and Thermal vision for bots with no reciprocal gear for players is still not right IMO.

If we know we're going in with heavy fog, an option for thermal optics or something similar is warranted. Make it a skill based thing. You have to look down sights in first person to get the thermal mode. Or something you switch on in your helmet for 30 seconds or so before it over heats.

For Liberty's sake, you're telling me Super Earth doesn't have access to Thermal? Sounds like heretic to me!