How bots are not as hard as you think

[teasingfaun]

I am writing this bc there seems to be a growing number of people complaining about the automatons. which is crazy considering just how easy they are compared to the terminids.

when it comes to all of the smaller bots there are a couple things that make them less threatening than their bug counterparts.

1. they have ammo. ammo that they have to reload. which lasts long enough to pop right out of cover to put a few rounds in the dome.
   
   
2. most of them fire in short bursts. so even if they arent reloading, there is a brief moment you can return fire.
   
   
3. they fire regardless if your behind cover or concealment. meaning theyll exhaust their ammo and have to go through a reload timer. again you can shoot them during these times.
   
   
4. they are cheasy and go down very quickly. dense formations can be easily dealt with by grenades. (highly recommend impact)
   
   
5. the jetpack bots often get compared to the hunters because they can close the distance rapidly. the difference is, they cannot slow you, their time spent in air to close the distance is substantially longer than the hunter, and they dont dodge your shots leaping around you. the only danger is the explosion if you hit them center mass. (alot of people recommend shooting the legs, but id say its alot swifter to hit center mass anyways. just be sure to leap backwards to create some distance before you shoot.)
   
   
6. everyones favorite! the rocket launcher bot. dat boi must have been loaded with some stealth missiles, bc they can definitely be sneaky sneaky. but they are also dispatched in one to three shots (given the weapon and distance, its mostly one shot). take cover. they will keep shooting, just pop them while they reload. always be on the lookout for rocket bois. if your out in the open, make it not so. run into a patrol? DODGE, DIVE, DIP, DUCK, AND DIVE! while they can telegraph your movement, missiles cant track. so pay attention to when they shoot. when the missile is mid-air dive the other way. if they are far away, just change the direction you are running.

As for the larger bots, they too are easily dealt with. yes, even the hulks.
(for the elite bots, its best atleast one helldiver on your team has some form of anti material on them. i.e. autocannon or the AM rifle strategems to specifically deal with elites)

1. Walkers can be outmanuverd in close range. So even basic weapons are viable if you just ran around them and shoot the operator from the back. Otherwise, an autocannon will take them out with one shot in most scenarios.
   
   
2. Devastators, or any of the chunkier bois, thier shoulders are weak. even light armor pen can remove them in a clutch. AM rifle or autocannon can take them out in just a few hits (one shot if you land a round right in the dome).
   
   
3. Hulks have weak shoulders that can be destroyed by autocannon or AM rifle if no one has a spear or any kind of anti-tank. hitting them in the face takes it down (although good luck landing that with an autocannon. AM rifle is the way to go on that front)
   
   
4. Tanks! What are you kidding me? Just jump on top of it. lol, but in reality just have someone bring a spear. If for some reason your spear doesnt want to lock, have your autocannon guy hit it from the back a couple times (you wont regret it! and its not treason if hes wearing socks.)

Long story short

The Automatons are the easiest and most fun faction to fight. Every bot has its place, and interesting ways to deal with each type. Yes its a little overkill with how they just spawn on top of you sometimes, but thats a problem with the game overall and not the bots.

So go out there and test your metal. We must hold the line to the bitter end. no matter the cost we will destroy those communist bastards. SEE YOU IN THE CREEK HELLDIVER!

EDIT: because alot of people keep commenting about what levels i play on ill put this here:
I play on levels challenging to extreme.
ofcourse bots are going to be alot harder on helldive. so will the bugs. for what its worth no one is supposed to be having an easy go at the higher end of the difficulties. it was never intended for the community to be blowing through them on helldive.

the fact that there are tons of people doing has even terrified the devs. so apparently its not hard enough on helldive.

my point still stands. if your playing on helldive, you really shouldnt be complaining about how op it is.

[DtHouse]

I don't know how you can fight them when you are outnumbered by all heavy, rocket dude, laser boy and still see "bot aircraft incoming" >.> it's a pain in the ass to manage them, unless you manage to move far away there is no chance you can survive an Hulk and tank firing at you. I saw a lot of guy die, even with jetpack to move fast away.

[teasingfaun]

Originally posted by Explodium:

Originally posted by zemzero:

Bugs can jump at you from 50 feet away, and also slow you. Have invisible enemies. Bile spewers kill in one hit and can mortar your position. The titan kills in one hit. Shriekers?

The amount of BS is the same in both factions, it requires a different approach.

Bugs don't shoot you through walls, foliage and fog with 1 hit kill rockets at 100m and arbitrarily take one of your stratagem slots away.

its a good thing bots dont shoot through walls either. yes they will shoot through fog and foliage, but they also lose line of sight. you can literally lose them in the fog my guy.

if your getting hit by missiles at 100 meters, you need a new gameplan. missiles do not track. once a missile is fired, move the opposite direction. no need to dive at that distance.

as for the stratagem thing, you really only need one to get by. and thats your support weapon. eagle runs and orbital strikes are a godsend, but arent totally necessary. losing just one slot is not a big deal.

if anyone is planning on using that slot for a turret to defend extract; protip, if you dont feel like your team is capable of fighting everything at extraction, you dont have to. i just did a mission on Hard where i literally just hid behind a box at extraction and they never saw me. bots ended up walking away.

[teasingfaun]

Originally posted by DtHouse:

I don't know how you can fight them when you are outnumbered by all heavy, rocket dude, laser boy and still see "bot aircraft incoming" >.> it's a pain in the ass to manage them, unless you manage to move far away there is no chance you can survive an Hulk and tank firing at you. I saw a lot of guy die, even with jetpack to move fast away.

its very easy to get caught up in the stress my friend. thats what kills you is the "holy ♥♥♥♥ im gonna die" and you jump into this reaction mode where your trying to throw anything you can.

best advice in those situations is to always have in mind as you go: "if ♥♥♥♥ hits the fan, where am i going to go?" "what weapons do i have available if they throw the worst at me?"
"if i need to retreat, what direction is going to provide me the most cover and concealment?"

as you make your way you should always try and pick some of the smaller guys off. your team should always maintain a level of fire.

tanks are only really a problem if your solo. they arent impossible, but they are alot more difficult if you dont have a team to flank with anti material and anti tank.

if you dont have anything to swiftly deal with a hulk, focus all fire on the shoulders. preferably the one holding the long range weapons first.

[Anarchy]

Originally posted by teasingfaun:

Originally posted by Explodium:

Bugs don't shoot you through walls, foliage and fog with 1 hit kill rockets at 100m and arbitrarily take one of your stratagem slots away.

its a good thing bots dont shoot through walls either. yes they will shoot through fog and foliage, but they also lose line of sight. you can literally lose them in the fog my guy.

if your getting hit by missiles at 100 meters, you need a new gameplan. missiles do not track. once a missile is fired, move the opposite direction. no need to dive at that distance.

as for the stratagem thing, you really only need one to get by. and thats your support weapon. eagle runs and orbital strikes are a godsend, but arent totally necessary. losing just one slot is not a big deal.

if anyone is planning on using that slot for a turret to defend extract; protip, if you dont feel like your team is capable of fighting everything at extraction, you dont have to. i just did a mission on Hard where i literally just hid behind a box at extraction and they never saw me. bots ended up walking away.

Missiles do track... Like the Spear.

The bots have rockets....

Also this implies you even see the rocket being fired THROUGH VISUAL IMPAIRMENT? (From a direction you're not even looking)
And this also implies that the rocket devastators won't hit you more than once with their rockets when you dive away or ragdoll you by hitting near you so the second one can kill you when you're CC'ed
Because, again, on 8/9 difficulty, it's ALL shield and rocket devs.

l m a o

[𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner]

Originally posted by Many-Named:

Originally posted by Mez:

You obviously have NEVER player lvl 9's Helldiver level, you wouldn't have posted this..
:)

Obviously he plays on easier levels. Most of his advice is inapplicable once you hit 9.

Lol.

I'm going to have to go with these two, it is a bit funny how no one mentions the difficulty they're playing at. But at Hell Dive, both are hell, and I'd rather deal with bugs all day (as I am now.) Helldive bots is just.. really frustrating and unfun at times. Instead of being your squad vs a coordinated army of bots, which would be fun on paper at least, it just becomes bots spamming hulks, tanks, and devastators. It's really painful especially on kill and civilian extract maps where you do not have the space to move around to counter them, I mean I was playing a civ extract and our team to win literally had to run off map to get the AI to stop bot dropping tanks and hulks on us.

It's not far away from being fun, I have fun at diff 7 for bots, but it becomes tedious and annoying at hell dive because they just spam three types of bot in patrols and bot drops. You don't have the strategems to keep up with them at times compared to with bugs, where you have a ton of options.

Another thing is yes, bugs except spewers/bile titans/acid bugs don't shoot back, and that matters big time. You can be in cover shooting at bots and have your aim completely thrown off become of the spam of lasers coming at you, and it matters for certain weapons like the laser and anti material.

Actually I'll say it matters for almost every weapon, because you want to be aiming for the heads of bots like devastators and the backside of hulks, and being hit once causes your characters upperhalf to be thrown to the side. It's not fun using the slugger when you have a gatling devastator pinning you down across the map.

A big thing is as well that people say is just run away, disengage, and you can't do that all the time. If it's a major objective, you have to battle through, or they'll just keep following you. Bot worlds are also really hard to get cover in for the most part, it's a lot of open land with some hills, and that's prime territory for bots because their accuracy (besides rockets and cannons) doesn't seem to drop at range.

[Aid of Healer]

OP forgets to mention he plays on 6 and below. Where less bs happens

[Sleepy_Walker]

I really like the bots. Different weapons and stratagems are effective. I wouldn't bring a Diligence or Spear or offensive mortar (friendly fire hazard) or heavy armor against bugs, but I bring those all the time with bots. I was going to say I wouldn't bring smoke or shield generator to bugs, but I think I need to try that before commenting.

I also like the weakspots that each bot unit has and how every walking bot unit has weaknesses that can be accessed from the front and back profiles. In comparison to the relatively open weapon choices for bots, I am always worried about carrying appropriate weaponry for chargers, titans, and spewers while also trying to not be hunter bait. I think bug point of interest garrisons are easier, since bots regularly have devastators and often difficult to see troops that can send up a flare without needing to see a helldiver.

The only bot unit I do not like are rocket devastators. Pretty sure I've been killed a few times where the rocket teleported under my character, plus the constant barrage of rockets is generally annoying. Every other unit I am generally happy with. Think I have been killed maybe 5 times by the rocket trooper, of which I moved into the rocket twice trying to juke it, so i have no complaints.

I do think bots are more lethal than bugs and promotes a more planed/cover based approach with really debilitating/damaging entrenched tactical objectives, but bugs tend to cause way way more friendly fire incidents while helldivers run every which way to avoid being in melee/vomit range. I would say they are difficult in different ways and I really appreciate how different they are.

[teasingfaun]

Originally posted by Aid of Healer:

OP forgets to mention he plays on 6 and below. Where less bs happens

i edited my post since it was so important. i dont know why anyone is expecting any faction to be well balanced on helldive. from my understanding, the devs never intended high diff to be fair regardless of faction.

[𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner]

Originally posted by teasingfaun:

i edited my post since it was so important. i dont know why anyone is expecting any faction to be well balanced on helldive. from my understanding, the devs never intended high diff to be fair regardless of faction.

The issue is for many that bugs feel more balanced than bots on hell dive, and honestly a lot more playable. Are there BS moments? Yeah, I just lost my whole squad and our super samples because we got swarmed by chargers and bile titans at extract, but we had fought the entire mission up to that point and only struggled at the end.

But with bots.. I've had games where a full squad of 4 with proper gear struggle because bots just do not let you get a hold. It's a lot of bot drop spam and often includes 3 shuttles, most of the time one being a tank, and one whole drop ship being full of devastators and/or the chainsaw guys.

[Anarchy]

Originally posted by 𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner:

Originally posted by teasingfaun:

i edited my post since it was so important. i dont know why anyone is expecting any faction to be well balanced on helldive. from my understanding, the devs never intended high diff to be fair regardless of faction.

The issue is for many that bugs feel more balanced than bots on hell dive, and honestly a lot more playable. Are there BS moments? Yeah, I just lost my whole squad and our super samples because we got swarmed by chargers and bile titans at extract, but we had fought the entire mission up to that point and only struggled at the end.

But with bots.. I've had games where a full squad of 4 with proper gear struggle because bots just do not let you get a hold. It's a lot of bot drop spam and often includes 3 shuttles, most of the time one being a tank, and one whole drop ship being full of devastators and/or the chainsaw guys.

Because, much like Bugs, higher difficulty means basically every single skinny bot can shoot flares now.

I frankly think it's a bit stupid.

[teasingfaun]

Originally posted by Anarchy:

Originally posted by teasingfaun:

its a good thing bots dont shoot through walls either. yes they will shoot through fog and foliage, but they also lose line of sight. you can literally lose them in the fog my guy.

if your getting hit by missiles at 100 meters, you need a new gameplan. missiles do not track. once a missile is fired, move the opposite direction. no need to dive at that distance.

as for the stratagem thing, you really only need one to get by. and thats your support weapon. eagle runs and orbital strikes are a godsend, but arent totally necessary. losing just one slot is not a big deal.

if anyone is planning on using that slot for a turret to defend extract; protip, if you dont feel like your team is capable of fighting everything at extraction, you dont have to. i just did a mission on Hard where i literally just hid behind a box at extraction and they never saw me. bots ended up walking away.

Missiles do track... Like the Spear.

The bots have rockets....

Also this implies you even see the rocket being fired THROUGH VISUAL IMPAIRMENT? (From a direction you're not even looking)
And this also implies that the rocket devastators won't hit you more than once with their rockets when you dive away or ragdoll you by hitting near you so the second one can kill you when you're CC'ed
Because, again, on 8/9 difficulty, it's ALL shield and rocket devs.

l m a o

l m a o its almost like i never said the bots didnt have rockets.

the ONLY missiles that the bots fire that track come from rocket devastators.

my claim was that the rockets from the smaller bots do not. because they dont...

as far as me seeing the rockets being fired, yes. its called situational awareness. bc i dont spend the entire firefight looking in the opposite direction. if im behind foliage i dont need to see them shoot the missile bc they cant see you behind cover. sure theyll still shoot in the general direction they last saw you, but maybe just dont stand still?

[shadain597]

Originally posted by teasingfaun:

Originally posted by shadain597:

It's interesting that you've convinced yourself that trash which can shoot at you, including one-hit-kills from across the map, is easier than trash that can't shoot back.

its interesting how you must get one-shot accross the map enough to be complaining about it. considering how the only reason they can hit you at long distances is if you stand still...

Nah, one rocket to the ass from a bot so far away I needed a damn scope to find it was enough. And, just so we're clear, I wasn't engaged with any bots at that point and was wearing light armor with the stealth passive.

[𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner]

Originally posted by Anarchy:

Because, much like Bugs, higher difficulty means basically every single skinny bot can shoot flares now.

I frankly think it's a bit stupid.

I think both need to have a global cooldown, I've watched two small bugs call in bug breaches at the same time. Did it cause two breaches at once? I'm not sure, but still. Somethings gotta give at some point. I think a global cooldown on bot drops is needed, maybe 5 minutes or 10 just to give players a chance to catch their breath and do objectives.

But also at the same time, not my original idea, but I do like the idea of destroying optional objectives delaying the amount of bots that can show up. There's apparently a thing where the longer you play, the more enemies show up in a match, and that makes it painful as someone (myself) who likes to 100% maps if possible.

[Anarchy]

Originally posted by teasingfaun:

Originally posted by Anarchy:

Missiles do track... Like the Spear.

The bots have rockets....

Also this implies you even see the rocket being fired THROUGH VISUAL IMPAIRMENT? (From a direction you're not even looking)
And this also implies that the rocket devastators won't hit you more than once with their rockets when you dive away or ragdoll you by hitting near you so the second one can kill you when you're CC'ed
Because, again, on 8/9 difficulty, it's ALL shield and rocket devs.

l m a o

l m a o its almost like i never said the bots didnt have rockets.

the ONLY missiles that the bots fire that track come from rocket devastators.

my claim was that the rockets from the smaller bots do not. because they dont...

as far as me seeing the rockets being fired, yes. its called situational awareness. bc i dont spend the entire firefight looking in the opposite direction. if im behind foliage i dont need to see them shoot the missile bc they cant see you behind cover. sure theyll still shoot in the general direction they last saw you, but maybe just dont stand still?

Again, missiles and rockets are different things.

Situational awareness claim is also dogwater vs actual reality of game on certain planets and is absolutely a lie, they'll hit you even if you're running at a full sprint, diagnol, side to side, doesn't really matter at all. Through fog, through the mushrooms that put out the giant spore clouds, does not matter. I've even thrown smoke grenades inbetween me and them and they still do it while I'm running in light armor.

paired with the suppressive fire tooltip being a lie because it's not actually suppressive fire and you have to be dealing damage to them to screw up their accuracy?

[teasingfaun]

Originally posted by Anarchy:

Originally posted by 𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner:

The issue is for many that bugs feel more balanced than bots on hell dive, and honestly a lot more playable. Are there BS moments? Yeah, I just lost my whole squad and our super samples because we got swarmed by chargers and bile titans at extract, but we had fought the entire mission up to that point and only struggled at the end.

But with bots.. I've had games where a full squad of 4 with proper gear struggle because bots just do not let you get a hold. It's a lot of bot drop spam and often includes 3 shuttles, most of the time one being a tank, and one whole drop ship being full of devastators and/or the chainsaw guys.

Because, much like Bugs, higher difficulty means basically every single skinny bot can shoot flares now.

I frankly think it's a bit stupid.

is that supposed to be any different from most of the bugs being able to call a bug breach?